Old English Mastiff facial variance

[Murray123]

Hey all,

I have been doing several months of research on Mastiffs online, visited several breeders, etc. and I have seen some variations amongst Old English Mastiff faces. I am not sure if this is normal variance I'm seeing, or if some are being presented to me as Mastiffs when they are in fact not "true" Mastiffs.

I have attached two pictures, both of older Mastiffs, but, to me anyway, there is quite a difference in face -- one has the typical wrinkly and droopy face, while the other has more of a narrow muzzle and a tighter face with almost no facial wrinkles. Are these just normal variants due to genetics, size, gender (the wrinkly one is male, the other female)?

I ask because I am looking for a puppy that will eventually have that more typical droopy/wrinkly face, so if it is a normal variant, I'd want to maximize the probability by ensuring both parents have the features I'm looking for.

Thanks for any feedback!

 

[HeatherD92]

Hey all,

I have been doing several months of research on Mastiffs online, visited several breeders, etc. and I have seen some variations amongst Old English Mastiff faces. I am not sure if this is normal variance I'm seeing, or if some are being presented to me as Mastiffs when they are in fact not "true" Mastiffs.

I have attached two pictures, both of older Mastiffs, but, to me anyway, there is quite a difference in face -- one has the typical wrinkly and droopy face, while the other has more of a narrow muzzle and a tighter face with almost no facial wrinkles. Are these just normal variants due to genetics, size, gender (the wrinkly one is male, the other female)?

I ask because I am looking for a puppy that will eventually have that more typical droopy/wrinkly face, so if it is a normal variant, I'd want to maximize the probability by ensuring both parents have the features I'm looking for.

Thanks for any feedback!

View attachment 59031 View attachment 59032

I honestly think it's genetics. I feel like the droopier, more wrinkly face is more attractive and more representative of the true Old English Mastiff.

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[I3rendanG]

Ehh. I'd prob have to disagree.

There's a great timeline on this site which shows original types from paintings and early pictures.

I think the wrinkly "typey ness" was selectively bred and enhanced in the show ring. I think a little bit of dewlap and jowels is a breed characteristic - look at some of the ancient shepherd/mastiff types - from which the EM originated from

But I'd argue, less typeyness is typical of the old school type and is more traditional.

http://www.josephmastiffs.com/timeline_600_years_of_mastiffs



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[Murray123]

Thank you both, appreciate the input, it's very helpful.

Also, great link and great pic!