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Introduction of a 2nd dog

TylerDurden

Well-Known Member
Hello All,

I would be interested in bringing home a second dog (we currently have a 5 months old EM). However, I‘m far from being an expert, as I have never owned two dogs at the same time. I understand there is a variety of factors that play a role, which lead me to the following questions:

1. Do Mastiffs generally do well with additional dogs in the household?
2. How important is age? Does it make more sense to have two puppies at the same age (approximately), two adult dogs, or a combination?
3. Our male EM won‘t be neutered until 18-24 months, so how important is selecting the "right" sex for the second dog?
4. How will a proper (slow) introduction work?
5. Do you constantly separate your dogs while you are not at home, or will they do fine "together"? I don‘t necessarily have the space to keep them far away from each other at all times.

Since the breed is important too, I was thinking about adding a French Bulldog. I apologize for the many questions, but would really appreciate any insight you might have.

Our EM is very gentle, and has never shown any signs of aggression towards anyone or anything. We invest a lot of time and patience in obedience training at this point. Also, we have a relatively large fenced yard, which he utilizes a lot for play time.
 

CeeCee

Well-Known Member
All great questions!!! First off let me say, all dogs are individuals so what might hold true for one dog may not hold true for another. You will be best served by knowing your dog and yourself (i.e., how much time you have to dedicated to training and being with your dogs, what you are comfortable handling in regards to dog behavior and pack interactions, etc.)

What I can tell you from my personal experience is that I have been beyond blessed to have spent four years raising and training my first girl, Lila. So that when I brought a second dog home, a then 5 mos old Zeek, Lila and I were tight. We knew one another. We knew what each could handle. We had super solid training and communication skills. So when Zeek came into our house, Lila was able to help me raise him. She helped to support my teaching him the rules of the house and what behavior was expected. She helped to support and give him confidence as he went through his last few fear stages and keep in in line when he went through his slightly obnoxious adolescent stage. When Zeek was four and Lila was eight, we had a super tight pack. So two years ago when I brought home my, then 4 mos old Pru, both Zeek and Lila are able to help me raise her. When I brought home my next pup, the first pups were solid and required less training time - allowing me to focus more time on the new pup.

This help and support from my adult dogs has been PRICELESS!!! Pruie is a spitfire who will push the boundaries anytime she can. Zeek and Lila have the patience and wisdom to know when to let it go and when to make her tow the line. (Granted this is primarily my responsibility, but let's face it, they're dogs. They speak her language and they know her energy better than I do and if I don't see a potential problem, they do and they either alert me or address it themselves. Having four and eight years of experience with them, I know that I can trust their judgement and know that they will handle her appropriately. Again, this is INVALUABLE!

To address your specific questions:
1 and 2) It will all depend on the individual dog. Lila (Great Dane mix) would be fine and adjust to almost any dog I brought in the house as long as they were stable and appropriate. But I did not want anyone challenging her or pushing her so my next dog was a young male. These two fit together like peas in a pod. There has been absolutely no challenging of Lila. As a matter of fact Zeek has always been, "Yes, big sister." "No, big sister." "My apologies, big sister."

Zeek (EM) on the other hand is very particular about his dog friends so after some meet and greets with potential additions, we quickly learned that Zeek was going to be most successful with a puppy - someone who was not going to threaten or challenge him and any rude behavior would be forgiven under the "puppy pass."

Enter Pru (AmStaff). As a six month old puppy, she tried her hand at challenging Lila. For me, that behavior would have been a deal breaker for Pru continuing to be a part of our pack so I shut it down (Lila addressed it, but Pru pushed anyway.) Zeek supported myself and Lila in a way that Pru got the message. She tried it once and the no more. If Pru had been an adolescent or an adult dog, it may have taken more time and management to remove that behavior as an option and we might not have been able to remove it entirely. So for me, I would say the combination of age and gender are important factors.

Also remember all dogs are going to need individual training and bonding time. Will you be able to give each dog the time they need for bonding and training?

3) Having a 5 month old puppy, he is just beginning to mature sexually so I don't know that you or he really know who he will become once adolescence and adulthood hit. This is where the relationship between the two dogs, your confidence, management, and your relationship and training with you resident dog are going to be critical. If I were in your shoes and had to bring a second dog in right now - just to hedge my bets - I would either go with a female puppy (like 12 weeks) or a female adult. If I were going with the adult female, I would want my 5 month old to naturally look to her for guidance. (Yes, big sister. No, big sister. I'm very sorry, big sister.) This of course also means I want my adult to be appropriate and have good manners to help teach those to my puppy.

4 and 5) I, personally, am not a follower of a two week shut down (something you see a lot of shelters and rescues advocate). Instead, I watch and manage. When I can't I separate. Each of my dogs are kenneled until they prove they can be trusted when unsupervised. So, for me, when the new puppy came in the resident dogs had already earned free roam. For me, SO MUCH BETTER than having three kennels! I will also say that when I brought the new dog home, I also took time off from work so I could start the bonding and training process. Usually my process goes something like, morning walk for all dogs, out together for a new hours - with me 100% focused on the dogs. Everyone takes a break and puppy goes into his or her kennel for a nap. Out again in the afternoon play, more walking, and just hanging - again 100% focused on the dogs and if I can't be, then puppy is kenneled. Puppy sleeps in kennel in the evening. This has been successful for me, but I will say that it is EXHAUSTING!!! The last time I did this was almost two years ago and I still can feel the exhaustion!

Again, only you know you what want to and can take on, but if someone were asking me, I would say wait on the second dog. Get your first dog through adolescence - see who he becomes. If you want them to have friends and companionship, set up some play dates with your friends and neighbors and/or find a trusted daycare. These two things will also give you more information on your dog and what they do and do not enjoy in their dog friends.

Another thing to keep in mind is if you bring home a second dog of similar age and breed, God willing A LONG TIME FROM now, they will age and eventually pass. Can you and do you want to be handling two aging dogs simultaneously? Potentially losing to dogs back to back? Beyond heartbreaking, it could also be very expensive. (Just more food for thought.)
 
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Nik

Well-Known Member
I think having a well trained dog to help train a puppy is awesome so long as that dog is dog friendly. I have always done it that way and it has always worked well. But CeeCee is absolutely right that your dog's personality makes all the difference.

I personally separate my dogs when I am not going to be supervising. I do allow them some alone play time and they do fine. But my dog appreciates getting a break from Kahlua the puppy. And the dog that helped raise Diesel (Cerberus) he always appreciated getting breaks from Diesel. Perhaps when Kahlua is fully mature and no longer has puppy energy we may leave them alone together for extended time periods but for now it is a kindness to Diesel to allow him that break to rest.

Additionally I want to add that while bringing in a second dog with Diesel and Cerberus before him worked wonderfully I don't think the same would be the case with Kahlua she has dominance issues and especially has issues with other female dogs. So it really really depends on the dog. I will say that Kahlua doesn't have the same issues with small dogs as she does with dogs larger than herself and she is better with males then she is females and she is better with submissive calm dogs then hyper dominant dogs. But, these are all things it took a year to develop and show up in her personality. You learn your dog as they age.
 

DennasMom

Well-Known Member
All I know is that we introduced a young (1yr old) male dog into our home when our other male dog was about 5 yrs old... and that didn't work well for us.
They were fine unsupervised in the home alone - actually better than keeping the new kid in the kennel - he could NOT stand to be in the crate when the older dog was free, it was not pretty.
It was when humans (me especially) were in the room that all hell broke loose. The new pup (bulldog/boxer mix) turned out to be a bit over-possessive... something that did not show up until he decided we (me) were worth "keeping".

So... my thoughts on your questions:

1/2. Know your own dog's social skills and interest in other dogs - if your puppy loves meeting new dogs, that's probably a good sign any dog added to the house will go over well with him. If he's leery... a puppy might work better than an adult for a new addition. And, at 5 months, he's still puppy himself... so he might love other puppies now, but decide once his hormones really hit (8-12+ months) that he'd prefer being an only-dog.

3. Go with opposite sex. Although, 2 boy dogs are probably going to be fine together, 2 girls... not so much (or at least, more work to integrate and keep friendly)... bringing an intact female/puppy into the mix when your dog will still also be intact potentially through her first heat could get...uh... interesting. But, there are ways to manage - especially if you have friends you can send the older dog to stay with for a few weeks, and just keep them separated completely.

4. Dog- dependent and new addition dependent... if a puppy... take older pup out to meet new puppy in the front yard or driveway, let them sniff it out, maybe go for a short walk (5 min), then have puppy "follow you home" and take up residence. If older, having more external play-dates away from the home might be worth while before bringing the new pup home. If we had done that with the 1-yr old we adopted... we wouldn't have.... and that would have saved us and our older pup a LOT of stress.

5. Once the new pup is fully introduced and knowledgeable on the rules of the house, I would hope they'd be fine with 'free roam' together... for me, that's the whole point... for the dogs to have someone to snuggle with when the humans are away.


I'm actually contemplating getting a second dog to keep Denna (6yr old) company... she used to have a cat to talk to when the humans were away, but she passed a few years ago, now. Denna is a very social pup, and loves meeting new dogs.

My current thoughts for us:

1. Go with opposite sex (so, boy for us)
2. Go with either a young puppy or a senior (I was thinking a much older lab, something with similar laid-back energy as a middle aged mastiff)

...then again... after reading Cee Cee's concerns, above... maybe we'll just stick with another cat instead. :)
 
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TylerDurden

Well-Known Member
Thank you all very much for your extremely helpful responses! I will keep thinking about the situation, and will definitely take all of your recommendations into consideration.
 

marke

Well-Known Member
as ceecee said , I agree in letting the 5 month old grow up first ....... it has always seemed to me the bigger the age difference the less the chance of a fight ....... I can't off the top of my head ever remember pups to grow up and fight with the parents or older dogs , I've seen pups grow up to fight with each other more times than I can remember ........ and having two old dogs simultaneously can be pretty expensive .......
 

Nik

Well-Known Member
Has anyone ever kept both an EM and a Neo at the same time (opposite sex)?

I can't off the top of my head think of anyone here with that combo but we have a lot of people with larger packs so hopefully someone can chime in with the experience you are looking for. :)
 

trg

Well-Known Member
I will add to the chat, not apples to apples but... so my Greater Swiss Mtn Dog has severe dog aggression. That’s the reason we ended up with her. She loves people but hates other dogs. She got attacked when she was a pup, not a stiff rebuke, but full on attack. There was some concern introducing Gus, the drive home with him, I mapped out the intro to the family. So we made sure she was inside, I set in a lawn chair with Gus and the GSMD came out, nose in the air, seen Gus and ran up to me, I stood up with Gus. I proceeded to calmly speak to Georgia(GSMD). She paced at my legs trying to smell him. I presented his hind quarters for a good sniff to her. After about 15 minutes I set him between my feet in a seated position. Now keep in mind she is in full season too. She presented a stiff stature over him, hair standing up on neck, tail erect, I did not scold her only said In a semi stern voice, Georgia, be good. She walked away came back, same thing again. After about thirty minutes, I let Gus loose as Georgia clearly had calmed down. He proceeded to get semi protected under the lawn chair. Then both dogs began to feel each other out, the rest is history. They play together like both of them are puppies, of course Georgia gets tired of it sooner than Gus but I can’t blame her. As it was mentioned earlier, Georgia has been awesome in training Gus, I can call her and she comes, every time, Gus follows suit as well. I praise them both. If Gus wanders while Georgia is resting at our feet, Gus will come 90% of the time already. Also the first night with her on her bed and him in a create, side by side, about 3 minutes of Gus whimpering then fast a sleep. The rest is history. Now Georgia has corrected him in a growl, ( remember she’s in season) he will give her a little room, then back sniffing. Oh I about forgot, jealously is to be watched out for. Georgia gets easily jealous over silly stuff, like chew toys. We try to keep the affection somewhat equal to avoid jealousy. We also separate them for Gus training, and one on one time. All in all they are good for each other so far. I would not have brought an adult dog home either with Georgia, I don’t think that would have been fair to either dog with Georgia’s dog aggression. Maybe this helps I hope, just our experience.
 

TylerDurden

Well-Known Member
I will add to the chat, not apples to apples but... so my Greater Swiss Mtn Dog has severe dog aggression. That’s the reason we ended up with her. She loves people but hates other dogs. She got attacked when she was a pup, not a stiff rebuke, but full on attack. There was some concern introducing Gus, the drive home with him, I mapped out the intro to the family. So we made sure she was inside, I set in a lawn chair with Gus and the GSMD came out, nose in the air, seen Gus and ran up to me, I stood up with Gus. I proceeded to calmly speak to Georgia(GSMD). She paced at my legs trying to smell him. I presented his hind quarters for a good sniff to her. After about 15 minutes I set him between my feet in a seated position. Now keep in mind she is in full season too. She presented a stiff stature over him, hair standing up on neck, tail erect, I did not scold her only said In a semi stern voice, Georgia, be good. She walked away came back, same thing again. After about thirty minutes, I let Gus loose as Georgia clearly had calmed down. He proceeded to get semi protected under the lawn chair. Then both dogs began to feel each other out, the rest is history. They play together like both of them are puppies, of course Georgia gets tired of it sooner than Gus but I can’t blame her. As it was mentioned earlier, Georgia has been awesome in training Gus, I can call her and she comes, every time, Gus follows suit as well. I praise them both. If Gus wanders while Georgia is resting at our feet, Gus will come 90% of the time already. Also the first night with her on her bed and him in a create, side by side, about 3 minutes of Gus whimpering then fast a sleep. The rest is history. Now Georgia has corrected him in a growl, ( remember she’s in season) he will give her a little room, then back sniffing. Oh I about forgot, jealously is to be watched out for. Georgia gets easily jealous over silly stuff, like chew toys. We try to keep the affection somewhat equal to avoid jealousy. We also separate them for Gus training, and one on one time. All in all they are good for each other so far. I would not have brought an adult dog home either with Georgia, I don’t think that would have been fair to either dog with Georgia’s dog aggression. Maybe this helps I hope, just our experience.

Thanks a lot for sharing. I'm glad everything has worked out well.

I guess we will ultimately have another dog, as well but it will require more planning. While I think introducing a puppy makes things easier, we will definitely have to consider the additional cost for second large (giant) breed. I think my wife would lean more towards a small dog (e.g. French Bulldog), but I'm not necessarily sure if this would work out well temperament wise. Our EM is still quite young (~7 months), but I believe he would be happier with a larger and more relaxed buddy. I'm starting to research Neos a bit. However, there seems to be a lot of controversy, and I will have to build my own opinion before thinking about actually getting one.