CC or mix?

[Annette Coleman]

What's your opinion? Purebred CC or mix? She was about 9 months old and 65 pounds when these photos were taken?

 

[TylerDurden]

I‘m certainly no CC specialists like others here on the forum, but I would say mixed (just my opinion).

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

How would one know that based on pictures? There are many that are considered purebred that one would think are mixed and many that are mixed that one would think are pure. Also if she was sold as a pet then there was a reason the breeder opted to not add her to their program, thus making her a pet which I would assume meant something that doesn't meet standard.

Purebred does not equal well bred.

 

[Smokeycat]

To go along with what has already been mentioned. It can be very difficult to determine breed by appearance alone even when one knows the mix in mixed breeds. My non Mastiff is a cross breed (50/50 mix) but unless you really know the breeds and their standards he looks and acts like a purebred. It can go both ways. A friend has a purebred that they believed was actually a mix so they did gebetic testing and it came back that the breeder was telling the truth and she is a pure bred dog just not a good representation of the physical appearance of the breed.

 

[Annette Coleman]

How would one know that based on pictures? There are many that are considered purebred that one would think are mixed and many that are mixed that one would think are pure. Also if she was sold as a pet then there was a reason the breeder opted to not add her to their program, thus making her a pet which I would assume meant something that doesn't meet standard.

Purebred does not equal well bred.

Which goes back to myou point in another thread about the lack of value of AKC papers.

How would one know that based on pictures? There are many that are considered purebred that one would think are mixed and many that are mixed that one would think are pure. Also if she was sold as a pet then there was a reason the breeder opted to not add her to their program, thus making her a pet which I would assume meant something that doesn't meet standard.

Purebred does not equal well bred.

Are you saying that anyone buying a pet quality purebred should expect a dog that doesn’t meet breed standards?

 

[Bailey's Mom]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that, but rather that there is such a degree of flexibility in purebreds that a wide variation exists in presentation. Just look at EMs, there is an amazing (really dramatic) variation and if you saw them side by side, you'd really question that they were the same breed. I know I was really taken aback by it. But they'd all pass the breed standards.

And yesterday, I was watching a movie and there was a dog in the back of the truck...I swear it was a CC, but...wow, he was really tiny, not the big brute I thought he should be. Also, when I look at my girl, both parents CC, but she has deficits...markings that wouldn't make her acceptable. Having said that, she is a fabulous dog, and she has our hearts in her paw. One of her sisters was PERFECT...absolutely beautiful on the outside and her nature was good, but she dropped dead while playing.... You just never know. Bailey was from a litter of 15. Two died early as pups, one dropped dead playing, and the remaining 12 are hale and hearty. Some are bigger, some are smaller, some had perfect reverse brindle...perfectly mirrored like a jaguar, some had white paws. One had a rally stripe down it's nose. Vast variation even in one litter.

And reflecting on what Black Shadow Cane Corso said above: "Purebred doesn't always mean well bred." Breeding is an art and really advanced mathematics, you have to reflect on the sire's and the damn's lineage. You have to know your stuff and not everyone who breeds puts the true necessary effort in so that they breed the Best Dog that they can that will Enhance the Breed itself.

Your dog is perfect! Don't fret about it. If you love the dog, then you got your money's worth.

 

[Justin B.]

Which goes back to myou point in another thread about the lack of value of AKC papers.

Are you saying that anyone buying a pet quality purebred should expect a dog that doesn’t meet breed standards?

Yes. Thats exactly what it means. A dog that has a disqualifying fault or faults based on the breed standard. Or a dog that is not aeshetically or physically up to par to be bred or shown. Or has/had health issues.
Papers/Registration are you ussually marked not for breeding purposes. And/ Or it says pet quality in the contract.
All this should be reflected by the price of the dog.

Very interesting. Keep in mind you can get pups that are called throwback dogs. These dogs may resemble other breeds that were used to make the Cane Corso.
Or the dogs earlier health issues could of stunted its growth and structure.
Could be pure. Could not be.

Still looks like a sweet and happy dog. Maybe it can still preform the tasks you needed it to do.

 

[Annette Coleman]

Yes. Thats exactly what it means. A dog that has a disqualifying fault or faults based on the breed standard. Or a dog that is not aeshetically or physically up to par to be bred or shown. Or has/had health issues.
Papers/Registration are you ussually marked not for breeding purposes. And/ Or it says pet quality in the contract.
All this should be reflected by the price of the dog.

Very interesting. Keep in mind you can get pups that are called throwback dogs. These dogs may resemble other breeds that were used to make the Cane Corso.
Or the dogs earlier health issues could of stunted its growth and structure.
Could be pure. Could not be.

Still looks like a sweet and happy dog. Maybe it can still preform the tasks you needed it to do.

Based on the responses in this thread, I am even more convinced that AKC registration is just a scam so that breeders can charge more money for inferior /unhealthy dogs. If papers alone make the dog purebred without regard to the quality or genetics of the dog, then papers should be worthless and not influence the price of the dog at all

She is a sweet and happy dog, but we very specifically told Laura what we needed and she sold us this 5 month pup anyway without revealing its defects.

We paid for a Corso and she obviously does not meet the description of a Corso, yet the “experts” in this community will not say so. Is that because you also produce inferior dogs and sell them at inflated prices because they are “purebred “? Can anyone trust a community that will not police itself?

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Which goes back to myou point in another thread about the lack of value of AKC papers.

Are you saying that anyone buying a pet quality purebred should expect a dog that doesn’t meet breed standards?

I am confused, what did you think Pet Quality meant? To those that breed, it means a dog/puppy that for whatever reason the breeder doesn't think it should be bred.

It could be something as simple as the breeder was breeding to try and get better angulation and didn't get it in this puppy so placed it, either because it was too straight or over- angulated. The standard calls for moderately angulated dogs so this dog would be out of standard, does it affect it in a pet home, likely not unless it is an extreme of either of the things mentioned above. Or a dog that is perhaps an inch over standard, might not affect it in a pet home but in a show ring or as a breeding potential it might not stack up. Also it will depend on a program, I have placed dogs as pets because they didn't fit my program that others might have kept because it would have worked for theirs.

I also don't get how you say AKC lacks value in papers, they are registries... they do not determine breed quality any more than the ICCF or the UKC. All have "pet" papers or limited paperwork which is issued to pets when the breeder selects the non-breeding box.

You obviously have an ax to grind against the AKC instead of taking it up with your breeders but to be fair you bought a pet so no, I don't think anyone in any breed that is breeding purebreds is going to understand how you are upset because you bought a pet and got a pet. All dogs have faults, and pets are placed in pet homes because the breeder doesn't think they should be bred. Most breeders charge less for their pets than breeding/show dogs (not all), this is not something new, or even restricted to the breed and some charge the same across the board no matter what as all pups are raised the same way, exposed the same way to everything so they all are charge the same but the pets are on spay/neuter contracts.

And you can bet your ass I produce pets, every litter has them. They are no less loved or important to me because they are pets, I screen their homes the same way, I stay in touch with their owners (likely more than the show/breeding homes) and some even come to stay when their owners are away. When I breed I breed for myself, what I want in my program and I also get some lovely pets that I find quality homes for and those people are happy (at least I assume since no one has come back to me to say otherwise so far) and my pets are love, they are not inferior because they are pets they simply are not breed quality.

 

[Justin B.]

Based on the responses in this thread, I am even more convinced that AKC registration is just a scam so that breeders can charge more money for inferior /unhealthy dogs. If papers alone make the dog purebred without regard to the quality or genetics of the dog, then papers should be worthless and not influence the price of the dog at all

She is a sweet and happy dog, but we very specifically told Laura what we needed and she sold us this 5 month pup anyway without revealing its defects.

We paid for a Corso and she obviously does not meet the description of a Corso, yet the “experts” in this community will not say so. Is that because you also produce inferior dogs and sell them at inflated prices because they are “purebred “? Can anyone trust a community that will not police itself?

At this point you are

Based on the responses in this thread, I am even more convinced that AKC registration is just a scam so that breeders can charge more money for inferior /unhealthy dogs. If papers alone make the dog purebred without regard to the quality or genetics of the dog, then papers should be worthless and not influence the price of the dog at all

She is a sweet and happy dog, but we very specifically told Laura what we needed and she sold us this 5 month pup anyway without revealing its defects.

We paid for a Corso and she obviously does not meet the description of a Corso, yet the “experts” in this community will not say so. Is that because you also produce inferior dogs and sell them at inflated prices because they are “purebred “? Can anyone trust a community that will not police itself?

LOL wow really.
This post tells everyone everything they need to know about the situation....
People took the time to explain and educate you with all the terms and how it works. You asked questions and got the answers. And you turn around and insult them for NO reason. Just because you had Zero idea of what you were doing and didnt like the honest answers. That says a lot. That changes my view of the situation.

Basic facts most informed pure bred dog owners know.
- Registry and pure bred have nothing to do with the health and "gene quality" of a dog. No matter how much you ignore it.
-What pet quality means
-All breeders have or sell pet quality dogs. If not they will pass off a pet quality dog to somebody less informed
- If a 5 month old dog is a good example of the breed

Would love to hear the breeders side of this at this point. A lot more red flags here about the situation.

If breeders dont sell pet quality dogs they CULL them....... google can help you with that one.

Since you asked and obviously seems like you want people to bash your sweet innocent dog.
I 100% agree with what the AKC told you about your dog.
Even though I have have produced pet quality dogs before I have never produced one like this.
What cant the dog do? Why the vagueness?

 

[Steven C]

With all the dog equality experts on the site, there are a lot of mixed breeds here so maybe they will chime in. To me looks like a possible runt? The eyes kind of bulge like a PB but the head looks like a mini CC. I do feel bad for the dog, but if I paid a CC breeder for that (without them saying it was a runt), my scam alarm bells would ring. IMO there is a huge difference between a pet quality AKC dog and one that obviously had a completely different look.

Anyone can jump on Craigslist and buy a dog for a few hundred dollars. Not pay a grand or so for a pet quality CC that only looked similar. This breed is in trouble, its everywhere now.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

It could have been a runt, it could have genes from other breeds presenting, or it could just honestly be a bad representation of the breed. The problem with the corso is there are far too many different looks to the breed and depending on who you ask their look is always the correct one. Would I look at that dog and see a corso, no. But to be fair the dog was also 5 months when they got it and then they thought after a few months more it didn't look like a quality one? Did the dog change that much in 4 months? Did the planes of the head change that dramatically? Did the eyes suddenly just turn round and protrude suddenly?

The pup was labelled as a pet, they bought a pet. Regardless if it had ICCF, AKC or UKC pet papers it doesn't make any of those registries responsible for the appearance or the fact that the dog doesn't appear to meet standard.

If you want to see scary, join any of the FB groups for corso... I can give you 2 or 3 right now and see what people pass off as corso and people pay money for it and then get offended when you point out that their dog doesn't look anything to standard.

 

[Nik]

Based on the responses in this thread, I am even more convinced that AKC registration is just a scam so that breeders can charge more money for inferior /unhealthy dogs. If papers alone make the dog purebred without regard to the quality or genetics of the dog, then papers should be worthless and not influence the price of the dog at all

She is a sweet and happy dog, but we very specifically told Laura what we needed and she sold us this 5 month pup anyway without revealing its defects.

We paid for a Corso and she obviously does not meet the description of a Corso, yet the “experts” in this community will not say so. Is that because you also produce inferior dogs and sell them at inflated prices because they are “purebred “? Can anyone trust a community that will not police itself?

Just wow. Most on this forum are super nice and willing to help those that reach out (as evidenced by the thoughtful responses you have already received). You don't seem to have any understanding of how breeding in general works and then you attack those who have taken the time to respond to you honestly and thoughtfully? At least that is how it reads to me. If I am wrong then I do apologize.

Btw I don't breed and I am in no way associated with the AKC but I do have a basic understanding of how these things work. I have had pet quality purebred dogs before and in every case the breeder was very honest with me about what specifically about that dog made it qualify as a pet quality and the price reflected that as well. Usually it does. My standard poodle was pet quality and I adored him. He lived a very long life with us as an extremely pampered and amazing pet. I had no interest in anything other than a great pet which is what I bought and what I got. I didn't in anyway feel robbed. I got the amazing temperament and good health that his parents had passed along to him. So what if he wasn't breeder or show quality. He was a perfect dog.

What exactly was it that you were looking for in your dog? If it was a good pet then the disqualifying features shouldn't effect you in any way. If you were looking for a show quality dog then that is what you should have purchased. The price would have corresponded to what you purchased. My standard poodle was $200 (granted this was 20 years ago) but his show quality brother was over $1000. I will admit his brother was stunning and I am sure he found the right home for him. I wanted a good companion and I got that and I still miss him everyday. Pet quality dogs are not inferior or flawed or "defective" if what you want is a pet. And you should always always ask all the questions when you get a new pet whether pure bred or not. Health issues, temperament issues are all important to know even for a pet quality dog.

As for the pure bred question only a DNA test can tell you for certain.

 

[Justin B.]

Here are some pics that might shock some people. Even corso owners.
These pics and all this info is available online and in books as well...

Here are what THE ORIGINAL ITALIAN RECOVERY PROCESS FOUNDATION DOGS LOOKED LIKE.

So if you have dogs or buy dogs that are heavy from the Italian lines or recovery lines this is where your dogs pedigree comes from. These traits can easily show back up in modern dogs.

The last 2 pics are supposedly historical photos of Italian "Cane Corsos" that pre date the recovery process.

I think the pics speak for themselves.

 

[Nik]

Here are some pics that might shock some people. Even corso owners.
These pics and all this info is available online and in books as well...

Here are what THE ORIGINAL ITALIAN RECOVERY PROCESS FOUNDATION DOGS LOOKED LIKE.

So if you have dogs or buy dogs that are heavy from the Italian lines or recovery lines this is where your dogs pedigree comes from. These traits can easily show back up in modern dogs.

The last 2 pics are supposedly historical photos of Italian "Cane Corsos" that pre date the recovery process.

I think the pics speak for themselves.

That last picture with the small child looks so much like my Diesel (who has absolutely no cane corso in him at all, he is 1/2 DDB and doesn't look it).

 

[Justin B.]

That last picture with the small child looks so much like my Diesel (who has absolutely no cane corso in him at all, he is 1/2 DDB and doesn't look it).

Great example
Which is exactly why anybody truly knowledgeable knows you cant tell if a dog is "pure" or what it is mixed with just by looking at it.
Is that the dog in your AV???

So papers and registries make it many steps harder to pass off a mixed breed as a pure breed to uninformed buyers.

 

[Nik]

Great example
Which is exactly why anybody truly knowledgeable knows you cant tell if a dog is "pure" or what it is mixed with just by looking at it.
Is that the dog in your AV???

So papers and registries make it many steps harder to pass off a mixed breed as a pure breed to uninformed buyers.

Yes that is Diesel in my avatar. He was an oopsie litter when the families DDB got out and mated with the neighbor's mutt. We dna tested him confirming that he is 1/2 DDB and his other 1/2 is a staffordshire and boxer mix. The avatar pic is when he was a puppy. For some reason I can't update anything on here anymore (signature, avatar)... I haven't tried in a couple months though since I was first unable to update.

Below are some more recent ones that I have on hand right now. I used to have a lot more on my computer but then my computer crashed and I lost everything on it. I expect after we move I'll be taking a whole bunch of photos.

Kahlua is the smaller dog and she is 1/2 boxer, 1/4 cane corso, 1/8 olde bulle dogge and 1/8 american bull dog.

 

[Justin B.]

Yes that is Diesel in my avatar. He was an oopsie litter when the families DDB got out and mated with the neighbor's mutt. We dna tested him confirming that he is 1/2 DDB and his other 1/2 is a staffordshire and boxer mix. The avatar pic is when he was a puppy. For some reason I can't update anything on here anymore (signature, avatar)... I haven't tried in a couple months though since I was first unable to update.

Below are some more recent ones that I have on hand right now. I used to have a lot more on my computer but then my computer crashed and I lost everything on it. I expect after we move I'll be taking a whole bunch of photos.

Kahlua is the smaller dog and she is 1/2 boxer, 1/4 cane corso, 1/8 olde bulle dogge and 1/8 american bull dog.

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Very nice dogs. See I would never in a million years guessed that he was more DDB than anything.
Just goes to show you what a guess is worth.

And another crazy thing is if somebody got that dog and didnt know its background or have the DNA testing they would claim or try to pass it off as a "Pitbull."
Nobody would of guessed 50% DDB. 25%Boxer...and 25% Staffy.
Cool combo.

 

[Nik]

Very nice dogs. See I would never in a million years guessed that he was more DDB than anything.
Just goes to show you what a guess is worth.

And another crazy thing is if somebody got that dog and didnt know its background or have the DNA testing they would claim or try to pass it off as a "Pitbull."
Nobody would of guessed 50% DDB. 25%Boxer...and 25% Staffy.
Cool combo.

Strangers always think both Diesel and Kahlua are pitbulls and yet neither one has any pit. Though most do think pits and staffys are the same thing. Personally I think Kahlua really does look boxer. Her 1/2 a boxer is very obvious to me. Diesel's boxer was the part that surprised me from his dna (only because we saw his full litter and parents so the DDB was never in doubt for us despite his appearance).

 

[Justin B.]

Strangers always think both Diesel and Kahlua are pitbulls and yet neither one has any pit. Though most do think pits and staffys are the same thing. Personally I think Kahlua really does look boxer. Her 1/2 a boxer is very obvious to me. Diesel's boxer was the part that surprised me from his dna (only because we saw his full litter and parents so the DDB was never in doubt for us despite his appearance).

That is exactly why when people make threads or posts asking "what breeds is my dog mixed with?" And somebody says "definitely part pitbull......"
I cringe so hard. Its a pet peeve of mine. Its just bad info. Even though its not done maliciously or intentionally