Controversy about raw feeding a puppy.

[April Nicole]

Hi, my name is April. My family will be joined by Logan a CAS pup. at the end of April. We want to give him the best care, so I have been doing a lot of research on raw feeding and feel that it would be the best for him. There is quite a bit of controversy concerning raw feeding puppies. Is it best to give a high end kibble until 6 months, then gradually convert to raw. Or should we start raw right away?

 

[Sheila Braund]

I can't tell you what's best for you and your family. I can tell you what I did. Because of an older dog I have I had her on raw.... It really did save her life. Her health issues went completely away after switching her on raw.
Because I already had one dog on raw....and the breeder had the puppies on raw. When I brought my girl Bella home I kept her on raw. I've also notice that her parents and some of her litter mates that are on kibble seem to shed a lot. Where raw diet dogs seem to have much nicer coats and don't really shed a lot.

 

[Sheila Braund]

Oh also your puppy looks so cute!

 

[April Nicole]

Thanks so much for the advice. We definitely want to raw feed. I'm just not sure if we should keep him on kibble for a couple of months. Did you ever have any complications with raw feeding? And that is such an added bonus that the shedding decreases! I didn't know that. Another point for raw!!

Also, your brindle gal is gorgeous!

 

[scorning]

I partially raw feed my adult dogs (kibble for breakfast and raw for dinner), but had started my puppy on kibble since that was what his breeder had him on.

The breeder I've been looking at for my next puppy, which I probably won't get until next year, weans her dogs onto raw and I would just keep that puppy on raw. However, I would just be doing that with help from her as I am nervous about raw feeding a giant breed puppy and making sure they get all the nutrients they need while growing

 

[April Nicole]

I partially raw feed my adult dogs (kibble for breakfast and raw for dinner), but had started my puppy on kibble since that was what his breeder had him on.

The breeder I've been looking at for my next puppy, which I probably won't get until next year, weans her dogs onto raw and I would just keep that puppy on raw. However, I would just be doing that with help from her as I am nervous about raw feeding a giant breed puppy and making sure they get all the nutrients they need while growing

Getting enough nutrients is my concern also. The breeder will have him on kibble , so to be on the safe side, I will keep him on kibble for a while. Then transition to raw. I'm sure the raw would be quite safe and preffered. But I have never fed raw before to my dogs, and I'm somewhat nervous about feeding it to a pup. Thanks

 

[Steven C]

If you decide not to go raw another method to reduce shedding is to add a tablespoon of flax seed oil to the kibble. This is what all the k9 handlers did where my DDB went. I used to give him a raw chicken every now and then but stopped as it became a hassle, a mess to clean up and a problem with the other small dogs around. So every week or so I would give him a large turkey or chicken neck in the patio away from the other dogs just as like a treat. Interesting breed, i've never heard of a CAS.

 

[April Nicole]

If you decide not to go raw another method to reduce shedding is to add a tablespoon of flax seed oil to the kibble. This is what all the k9 handlers did where my DDB went. I used to give him a raw chicken every now and then but stopped as it became a hassle, a mess to clean up and a problem with the other small dogs around. So every week or so I would give him a large turkey or chicken neck in the patio away from the other dogs just as like a treat. Interesting breed, i've never heard of a CAS.

Thanks for the info on the flax oil. Central Asian Shepherd's or Alabai as they are commonly called are indeed an interesting breed. I learned of them about 4 years ago and fell in love with the breed. They are ancient guardian dogs. And highly intelligent. They are not a man made breed, but exist through adapting to the harsh climates they originate from. They can tolerate dessert conditions or bitter cold. They are fearless and devoted. They are not prey driven, and are great Livestock protection dogs. People have called them "volkodav " which means wolf crusher. On a different note they are completely loyal, and very good with children. They do need a strong leader and consistent training and socialization. As adults they are dog dominate and will not submit to other dogs which usually leads to confrontation. They are not well known in the U.S. but very popular in Russia. There are some really great breeders here in the U.S. that are trying to bring the breed to the states.

 

[Steven C]

Thanks for the info on the flax oil. Central Asian Shepherd's or Alabai as they are commonly called are indeed an interesting breed. I learned of them about 4 years ago and fell in love with the breed. They are ancient guardian dogs. And highly intelligent. They are not a man made breed, but exist through adapting to the harsh climates they originate from. They can tolerate dessert conditions or bitter cold. They are fearless and devoted. They are not prey driven, and are great Livestock protection dogs. People have called them "volkodav " which means wolf crusher. On a different note they are completely loyal, and very good with children. They do need a strong leader and consistent training and socialization. As adults they are dog dominate and will not submit to other dogs which usually leads to confrontation. They are not well known in the U.S. but very popular in Russia. There are some really great breeders here in the U.S. that are trying to bring the breed to the states.

I am familiar with another Russian Shephard called the Ovcharka or Caucasion Shephard which has those qualities you mentioned. It sounds like the CAS might be the cousin to it. One was recently abandoned and the owners tied it to a tree and the police shot it rather than saving it, it was quite the controversy in the news recently. It was in the UK which doesn't surprise me as they love to kill them just as the states does now. I am not looking forward to what Agenda 21 has planned for dogs as there is no mention of them.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/22/abandoned-dog-shot-dead-police-tied-telegraph-pole/

 

[April Nicole]

I am familiar with another Russian Shephard called the Ovcharka or Caucasion Shephard which has those qualities you mentioned. It sounds like the CAS might be the cousin to it. One was recently abandoned and the owners tied it to a tree and the police shot it rather than saving it, it was quite the controversy in the news recently. It was in the UK which doesn't surprise me as they love to kill them just as the states does now. I am not looking forward to what Agenda 21 has planned for dogs as there is no mention of them.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/22/abandoned-dog-shot-dead-police-tied-telegraph-pole/

The Caucasian shepherds are bigger and more aggressive than the CAS. But they are really nice dogs for the right owners. How horrible that they had a man there prepared to take on the responsibility of the Caucasian. He had proper gear and had dealt with aggressive dogs before, yet they denied him. The article goes on to say the police made the right choice because they would not be able to rehome him. What B.S. As far as Agenda 21. That's some scary shit

 

[DennasMom]

Puppy's systems don't regulate calcium well until they are 6 months or older... and calcium is a big issue with our giant breed dogs. You don't want to feed a kibble with high calcium levels (>1.5%) and you don't want to supplement with calcium. The LOWER the calcium, the better for giant growing puppies.

That said..... all the studies on calcium effects have been done on kibble-fed puppies with calcium in a form that is highly processed and readily absorbed... I would hazard a guess that when fed whole, raw, bones as a source of calcium, puppies will only be able to gnaw off what they need and no more... and any excess will be recognized by the system and sent on through - just as nature designed it.

So... if you do feed raw, go with a basic "whole prey model raw" diet, including organ meats and appropriately sized raw-meaty-bones (I would even say no or low amounts of ground-in bone).

That would be my recommendation... but... Denna is my first raw-fed dog, and we didn't move her over to a raw diet until she was about 6 months old - just due to the slow pace of my research.
I know lots of people in the raw-feeding community wean litters of puppies straight to raw, so if you do it right, it should be a great way to go.

Also... flax... plant-based oils aren't normally something recommended for dogs. You can see if it helps, but if you see an increase in itchy skin or ear infections, I would blame the flax. I just started Denna on a new joint supplement which is flax-based, and after almost 2 years of being ear-dirt-free... we are battling another ear infection. And I had previously blamed chicken. Nope. No more flax for us!! We'll stick with fish oils for our Omega 3's (and always provide Vit E with fish oil).

 

[Steven C]

Thanks for the info on the flax oil. Central Asian Shepherd's or Alabai as they are commonly called are indeed an interesting breed. I learned of them about 4 years ago and fell in love with the breed. They are ancient guardian dogs. And highly intelligent. They are not a man made breed, but exist through adapting to the harsh climates they originate from. They can tolerate dessert conditions or bitter cold. They are fearless and devoted. They are not prey driven, and are great Livestock protection dogs. People have called them "volkodav " which means wolf crusher. On a different note they are completely loyal, and very good with children. They do need a strong leader and consistent training and socialization. As adults they are dog dominate and will not submit to other dogs which usually leads to confrontation. They are not well known in the U.S. but very popular in Russia. There are some really great breeders here in the U.S. that are trying to bring the breed to the states.

I just looked at some pics of the CAS, really cool first time ive seen or heard of that breed. I saw that most had the ears done so it's probably the same reason why they crop the CC ears. Very strong cool looking dog.

As far as flax goes, I was just mentioning what the K9 handlers give to the trained police dogs to reduce shedding and they swore by it. I am not sure if they had any adverse reactions as far as allergies go, there are some other oils that reduce shedding also in GSDs. I can tell you that it seems to me Mastiff breeds have a ton of skin issues. My DDB cost me about $180 a month in skin allergies from grass and pollen.

 

[April Nicole]

Puppy's systems don't regulate calcium well until they are 6 months or older... and calcium is a big issue with our giant breed dogs. You don't want to feed a kibble with high calcium levels (>1.5%) and you don't want to supplement with calcium. The LOWER the calcium, the better for giant growing puppies.

That said..... all the studies on calcium effects have been done on kibble-fed puppies with calcium in a form that is highly processed and readily absorbed... I would hazard a guess that when fed whole, raw, bones as a source of calcium, puppies will only be able to gnaw off what they need and no more... and any excess will be recognized by the system and sent on through - just as nature designed it.

So... if you do feed raw, go with a basic "whole prey model raw" diet, including organ meats and appropriately sized raw-meaty-bones (I would even say no or low amounts of ground-in bone).

That would be my recommendation... but... Denna is my first raw-fed dog, and we didn't move her over to a raw diet until she was about 6 months old - just due to the slow pace of my research.
I know lots of people in the raw-feeding community wean litters of puppies straight to raw, so if you do it right, it should be a great way to go.

Also... flax... plant-based oils aren't normally something recommended for dogs. You can see if it helps, but if you see an increase in itchy skin or ear infections, I would blame the flax. I just started Denna on a new joint supplement which is flax-based, and after almost 2 years of being ear-dirt-free... we are battling another ear infection. And I had previously blamed chicken. Nope. No more flax for us!! We'll stick with fish oils for our Omega 3's (and always provide Vit E with fish oil).

Thanks Denna's Mom. I have read the raw diet should consist of 80% meat 10% bone 10% organ meat. I definitely want to raw feed. I'm just so nervous about him choking on a bone or not being able to pass a bone at a young age. But I guess if you think about it. If in the wild, the pup would be eating raw. I know he will be on kibble when I get him. The breeder is feeding him Diamond. Do you think this is sufficient. Or is there a kibble that you could recommend? Thanks

 

[April Nicole]

I just looked at some pics of the CAS, really cool first time ive seen or heard of that breed. I saw that most had the ears done so it's probably the same reason why they crop the CC ears. Very strong cool looking dog.

As far as flax goes, I was just mentioning what the K9 handlers give to the trained police dogs to reduce shedding and they swore by it. I am not sure if they had any adverse reactions as far as allergies go, there are some other oils that reduce shedding also in GSDs. I can tell you that it seems to me Mastiff breeds have a ton of skin issues. My DDB cost me about $180 a month in skin allergies from grass and pollen.

They really are an awesome breed! And the breeder we are getting him from is great. His dogs all have great temperaments. His dogs are true livestock guardians. Some of the CAS were bred to be fighting dogs and the dogs no longer possessed the same temperments. That type is more aggressive and harder to handle. The CAS that lived with the nomadic shepherds and lived among the flocks as guardians are true to the breed. Renat, our breeder, is from Kazakhstan. And he has been breeding CAS since 1991. He knows a lot about the breed. And he has rave reviews from everyone who has purchased a dog from him.
We are very excited to be getting a puppy from him.
4 more weeks.

 

[TylerDurden]

They really are an awesome breed! And the breeder we are getting him from is great. His dogs all have great temperaments. His dogs are true livestock guardians. Some of the CAS were bred to be fighting dogs and the dogs no longer possessed the same temperments. That type is more aggressive and harder to handle. The CAS that lived with the nomadic shepherds and lived among the flocks as guardians are true to the breed. Renat, our breeder, is from Kazakhstan. And he has been breeding CAS since 1991. He knows a lot about the breed. And he has rave reviews from everyone who has purchased a dog from him.
We are very excited to be getting a puppy from him.
4 more weeks.

That‘s interesting! Just the other day I was watching a documentary about the breed. The person who spoke about the dogs was from Kazakhstan I believe. Is he from California? I can try to find the video again, but it was definitely great to watch. He seemed extremely knowledgeable. Also, he mentioned how he carefully selects future homes for his dogs.

 

[April Nicole]

That‘s interesting! Just the other day I was watching a documentary about the breed. The person who spoke about the dogs was from Kazakhstan I believe. Is he from California? I can try to find the video again, but it was definitely great to watch. He seemed extremely knowledgeable. Also, he mentioned how he carefully selects future homes for his dogs.

Yes. Renat Sultanov. Soul of Asia kennel
He just sent me pictures of our pup like 2 minutes ago. He is a great breeder!

 

[April Nicole]

 

[April Nicole]

 

[TylerDurden]

Yes. Renat Sultanov. Soul of Asia kennel
He just sent me pictures of our pup like 2 minutes ago. He is a great breeder!

Awesome. I enjoyed watching his video and comments about the breed. He owns some amazing dogs.

 

[April Nicole]

Awesome. I enjoyed watching his video and comments about the breed. He owns some amazing dogs.

If you watched his dogumentary. The sire of our pup is Mountain of Glory Alamak. The white CAS. And yes he is particular about who he sells his dogs to. And I'm glad that he is. So many people impulse buy, and end up with a very strong willed dog that they can't handle. Training is crucial. And it's an ongoing process. And I love every minute of it!! Also it's good to live in the country with this breed. We live in the country in Louisiana and have a very large fenced in yard. Horses across the street. Huge oak trees for shade. This would be a difficult breed to live in the city with. Not that it's impossible, just something I wouldn't want to take on.