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The nail monster

Jarena

Well-Known Member
We have a new frustration: trimming Lettie’s nails. She has always done *okay* with using the dremel on her nails. She got tons of treats and would pull away sometimes, but it was going alright. The last probably 4 months, she’s been slowly getting worse with nail trimming. She pulls away more and more. She really needed the front nails trimmed so that’s where we focused. She hated it more every time we tried so we gave up and tried the back ones. She did much better with the back ones. So then we decided that it must be the noise. We bought a more quiet dremel, wouldn’t work. We bought an extension so we could cover the actual motor and make it quieter. Didn’t work. We tried filing them by hand. Kinda worked, she only pulled away 25 instead of 30 times. But at that rate, filing them by hand would take a year. So we bought “millers forge” scissor type nail clippers. We also bought a “Lickimat” to slather in peanut butter to keep her occupied. We tried the clippers tonight and after an hour I got the teeny tiny tips on 3 nails off. But it took a lot of peanut butter and a lot of frustration. Her front nails are still too long. We can’t keep this up much longer or her nails are going to start getting painful. We are so incredibly frustrated with this.

A couple of things, in case it matters: Our trainer told us to try to work on her nails every single day so that it’s not such a big deal to Lettie, so that’s what we’ve been doing for the last 10 days. Nail trims are the only time she gets peanut butter. We have tried having her laying down, sitting and standing. It doesn't seem to matter what position she’s in, still hates it. We have never hit the quick and she’s never had a paw injury. She won’t let a stranger (like a groomer) touch her paws. We tried that awhile ago and the lady told us to leave because most dogs do better without their humans around. About 2 minutes later she was calling us back to help her. Lettie wouldn’t let the lady touch her and we ended up with a refund. We have also tried to kinda back off and reintroduce the grinder with treats. We have sat around her many times and gave her treats for letting us touch her paws. Treats for sniffing the dremel. Treats for letting us touch her nail with the dremel while it’s off.

So we plan to keep trying everyday to clip a few nails. But this is getting very very hard to do and incredibly frustrating. I feel like we can’t afford to take our time with backing off and giving her treats for every small step, her nails are getting too long. I honestly just want to drug her and tie her up. I won’t, but that’s how frustrated I am right now. Any ideas, thought, suggestions. Please help!
 

Sheila Braund

Well-Known Member
Hi Jarena, I have the same issues with Sunny. It takes 2 of us to get it done... Bella isn't much better other then I can make her stay and get it done.
But with what you described it does sound like there's a hyper sensitivity with Lettie's front nails. When is her next vet checkup? I would be asking the vet to take a look at that ....just to be sure it's not a medical problem such as nail fungal problem.

I do know my lab Ebony had hyper sensitive front paws as well. Our vet suggested we filed her nails on the side walk. That was the only way I could get her nails done. My dad would get Hogan's nails filed by playing with his jug out in the back yard and every day walks on the trails....but dad is retired and had the time to spend an hour in the morning and again in the evenings.

Don't know if this helps or not

Good luck!
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
If I don't do the dogs' nails every few days they regress. Ella is very protective of her feet. She had severely burned pads when she came to me as a 5-6 week old pup. I don't have the hand strength to cut her nails with clippers. It causes her discomfort and she growls.
**For anyone reading, her growling is a good thing. She's uncomfortable and there are only a few ways she can tell me and growling is the best way. Correcting the growl takes away your warning and the next step is usually a bite. Don't correct the growl, listen to it.**
I used counter conditioning and desensitization to make the dremel a predictor of great things. It's kind of confusing, but you do have to be careful to make sure that you're making the nail trimming tool predict something amazing rather than that amazing thing predict the nail trimming tool. Does that make sense? I think you're on the right track, Jarena, but maybe you're moving too fast for her. I know that they need to be done, so maybe we think of something else that will help while you work on the CC and DS. I have an idea for that.

There are a lot of videos on CC and DS nail trims positively. Here's one video. I love this trainer. She's the one my daughter is learning with, and has a lot of experience with reactivity. Good books too.
http://caninesinaction.com/2018/01/nail-trim-making-choice-makes-easy-choice/

How handy are you and Matt? Lettie is a smart girl and she likes to use her front paws. While you're working on the nail trims, what about making a filing/sanding board for her?

https://eileenanddogs.com/2017/02/25/dog-change-feet-scratching-nail-board/
https://www.animalbehaviorcollege.com/blog/dog-nail-trimming-tips-teach-dog-to-use-scratchboard/
 

Jarena

Well-Known Member
Thank you so much for the replies!

Unfortunately, we can’t do much walking on sidewalks right now because it’s just too stinkin hot here and she doesn’t do well in the heat at all. Also, we are still working on leash manners with our trainer and right now it’s strictly walking across the street to the park to work on desensitizing with distractions. But it’s very good advice and we will definitely be trying that when the weather is cooler and she does better on a leash!

Those were great links also! Matt is pretty handy, I’ll talk to him about making a scratching board. I also updated our trainer on how bad it’s gotten and I’m waiting on a response from him. We will figure this out enventually!
 

Jarena

Well-Known Member
The trainer wants us to try to get a video of us trimming her nails. If I get a decent video, I will post it on here as well.

He also asked me if there has been any growling or nipping. No, she hasn’t growled at all and she doesn’t nip. She does this thing when we wipe her paws when it’s muddy: She kind of gnaws on our hands with a gentle mouth. She just started doing that last night for nail trims. Usually it’s only for paw wiping and only when we forget treats.
 

Sheila Braund

Well-Known Member
The trainer wants us to try to get a video of us trimming her nails. If I get a decent video, I will post it on here as well.

He also asked me if there has been any growling or nipping. No, she hasn’t growled at all and she doesn’t nip. She does this thing when we wipe her paws when it’s muddy: She kind of gnaws on our hands with a gentle mouth. She just started doing that last night for nail trims. Usually it’s only for paw wiping and only when we forget treats.

Yep I would say she's telling you she doesn't like it.
 

scorning

Well-Known Member
I have dogs that can be sensitive about having their paws done. I think for me it comes down to a couple things:
1) How fast you are - the longer I hold their feet, the less they like it. Its better to just quickly do a trim then move on. If you didn't cut enough, get it next time.
2) The tool you use - one of my dogs is better with nail clippers, the other with the dremel. Try different tools
3) The dogs' position - I've tried a couple, including dog standing or lying flat on their side, lying on the ground or on an elevated surface. For my current dogs, it works best for us if they lie on their side on the couch and I sit on the floor.
4) How often you do it - I shoot for twice a week. I don't get to every paw every time.

I have two dogs, and I make a huge deal of it with the more cooperative dog while the more anxious dog watches. I let my dogs opt out - our trained behavior is they lie flat on their side and put their head down. If they put their head up I wait for them to put their head down to clip the next nail. If they get up and leave I start on the other dog and bring out super tasty treats and gives lots of praise to the dog I'm working on. Usually the other dog will come back and ask to join in again.
 

April Nicole

Well-Known Member
Buster hated it too. I know this is probably not the right way, but my husband would hold him down, and I would quickly cut them. Then he got an awesome treat. We tried everything else. He wanted nothing to do with it, so as I said, not the right way, but it worked. Took about 5 minutes.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
Buster hated it too. I know this is probably not the right way, but my husband would hold him down, and I would quickly cut them. Then he got an awesome treat. We tried everything else. He wanted nothing to do with it, so as I said, not the right way, but it worked. Took about 5 minutes.

I've worked for just short of nine years with Al. It's actually kinder to him to have my husband lay on him and hold him tightly while I dremel his nails. He's a dog that pressure (thundershirts, weighted blankets, etc) works well for and this is much less stressful for him, and for me, than a trip to the vet with sedation. I CAN dremel one nail at a time every day, but it really is easier on him to just get them done with full body pressure.
 

April Nicole

Well-Known Member
I've worked for just short of nine years with Al. It's actually kinder to him to have my husband lay on him and hold him tightly while I dremel his nails. He's a dog that pressure (thundershirts, weighted blankets, etc) works well for and this is much less stressful for him, and for me, than a trip to the vet with sedation. I CAN dremel one nail at a time every day, but it really is easier on him to just get them done with full body pressure.

That's what my husband would do also. He would lie on him and talk to him in a calm voice while I was quick. It actually seemed more effective, he trusted my husband, and having him hold him down made him feel secure, if that makes any sense. Also, having him hold his paw helped a lot. When I tried to cut them on my own, Buster would jerk his paw, and I was scared I was going to hurt him...

We tried the vet also, I mean it was only $7, and I wouldn't have to be the bad guy... You would have thought they were trying to cut his paw off, one toe at a time, he wailed and howled and bucked. Everyone in the office stopped talking and was wondering what in the world was going on! So we chose hubby holding him down. It was a lot less stressful for him. And for the vet too I'm sure. :)
 

Jarena

Well-Known Member
Here is a video of us trying to do her nails. The angle sucks because I just set the phone up, concentrated on her, and hoped for the best. Also the angle sucks because I look 437 times bigger than I actually am :eek:.

 

April Nicole

Well-Known Member
Here is a video of us trying to do her nails. The angle sucks because I just set the phone up, concentrated on her, and hoped for the best. Also the angle sucks because I look 437 times bigger than I actually am :eek:.


Jarena u and Matt are so patient. How many nails did y'all end up clipping?
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
Does she ever offer her foot to you? Her nails aren't awful, so you have some time to take a step back. I would work on not just letting you handle her paws (which is great) but having her offer her paw to you. I would spend a good amount of time just doing what Laura does in the first video above. Make it be Lettie's choice to offer her paw and allow handling. Of course you won't have her on a grooming table, but the floor works just fine. Take your time. Go slow. Get some really awesome treats. Something better than peanut butter or hot dogs. When she's comfortably offering her foot to you then you start doing things like adding more pressure to the nail itself. I might also introduce the tools to the area and have her just offer her foot. You need to desensitize her to the tools as well as the handling, imo.

There was a time when I was actually able to do one nail a day with Al. Unfortunately his anxiety has increased with age and it's just too much for him. What I did with him was we sat on the floor and I did what Laura did in the video. I added the nail clippers to the mix and rewarded him for touching them with his foot. He still runs to them and touches them, oddly enough, but the actual clipping or dremeling process is more than he can handle. I don't know if the touching of the tool is something you want to try, but you could reward very heavily for that too.

Just some thoughts. Did I make sense? I think this is very doable for you. Lettie isn't freaking out or growling. She's just uncomfortable. You can totally work with this.
 

Jarena

Well-Known Member
I think laying on Lettie would cause her more anxiety. It’s a fantastic idea, just not for Lettie... imo. She does offer her paw when we say “shake”. We just ordered the freeze dried raw chicken treats, so when they come in, it will be very high value for awhile. Maybe we will start with those and only use those for nail time. I really thought her nails were awful so that’s why I’ve been kinda rushing the process. But if Boxergirl thinks we can step back, then we will try :D. Also, TylerDurden suggested a natural calming aid that we can try. We are willing to try just about anything right now lol. So with the calming aid and new high value treats we will try to ask her to shake and reward.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
Oh gosh no. I wouldn't suggest laying on Lettie. I think you can definitely work with her and get her to offer you her paw. What calming aid are you thinking of trying, out of curiosity. We've tried most all of them with Al.
 

glen

Super Moderator
Staff member
I can feel the pain in my back thinking of this time with gandalf,
I had to find the most high value treat he could tolerate not to upset his stomach, each nail took ages at the start because i wanted him to give me it without a fight, started with a nail file, well glen made them sand paper on wood, after 3 weeks he would give me a paw and i could do 1 paw then a treat instead of 1 nail and a treat, then moved on to the dremel, same process, even if i only touched the nail for a second it was done every day,
It was well worth it, he now hears the dremel he knows budcuss goes first then he trots over sits and gives front paws first then lays down for back legs, he knows straight after we go and throw kong for 10 mins.
 

Jarena

Well-Known Member
Oh wow, at least I know I’m not alone on this! Sounds like you have all had to put in A LOT of work also!

This is what we ordered. I’m sure you know, I am always open to more suggestions!

304EF1D8-9FB8-44CC-A1F5-FA64B6371A27.png
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
If the rescue remedy doesn't do what you want it to then I'd suggest giving Composure Pro a try. Rescue remedy didn't do much for Al, but I know it works well for many people. Hopefully it takes the edge off for Lettie.