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25 Weeks and Feeling the Burn!

Siloh

Well-Known Member
*big sigh*

When we got Hamlet at 16 weeks, we were all like, Oh man, THIS is puppy adolescence? Pshha.

No. No, I don't think it was.

Next Tuesday, Hamlet will be 26 weeks. I thought he was teething when we got him. In the last week we have found 3 or 4 teeth, and the poor boy's mouth is obviously in pain now more than ever from what I can tell.

I see him coming out as an independent mind. He is much more of an independent thinker than he had been.

I was patting myself on the back for his social skills. We're finally in a place where he looks at me 99% of the time he sees a distraction. He is good with people who ignore him if they stop to talk to me. In the house, forget about it. But on our walks, he has been a real champ. Until...

I went down a new street recently. He freaked out! Tail tucked, hackles up, whining and barking at nothing. Okay, so I failed there. I'm stepping up my game now in taking him *everywhere* I can to generalize his training better. But still, this felt like a curveball. He had never behaved this way when traveling somewhere by car and then getting out in the new environment, even with a bitch in heat 15 ft away and without his hound friend to tell him how to react.

My biggest issue, perhaps--he will REFUSE to go to sleep, even when taxed to the max with stimulation and exercise. I have resorted to crating him when he won't sleep just to put him down for a desperately needed nap. He will sleep any time next to me or my SO, but when we're out of the puppy area sometimes he is fine, his usual old calm self, and sometimes he will simply reject the idea of sleep to the point where I have watched him dozing off while sitting in between finding new forms of trouble.

His nose seems to have suddenly kicked into drive. He has always seemed particularly terrible at using scent, but now sometimes it seems scent is hugely compelling and a much bigger part of his interaction with the world. I think that it's good he is using his nose more, but he is forgetting his walking manners in a big way to put his nose to the ground. The "look" command has been very helpful, but sometimes it seems he is just tossing me a bone with a 3 second eye contact so he can put his nose back down. As I feared, an abrupt interest in something on the ground while walking briskly is quickly becoming a show-stopper as he is now so heavy it feels as if someone dropped an anchor. Frustrating.

Not to mention, his ability to get into EVERY damn thing is incredibly advanced. He finds things that we forgot we have from god-knows-where. He is tall enough to counter surf, but he does understand (I think?) this is unacceptable and generally does not get up on surfaces when we are in the room.

Then of course I'm sure my expectations play a role here in further frustrating myself, because sometimes I feel like I'm failing him if he is having such basic troubles.

I will give him a silver star for potty training. He is almost always good about going outside.

The kicker for me is that when I look for moral support from articles about this life stage, central to the advice given is NEUTERING WILL DO AMAZING THINGS. I want to hold off on neutering given the climate here on the subject of neutering at 6 months.

I guess I'm just feeling discouraged. Occasionally I panic, thinking good lord maybe this is emerging personality and not puppiness. But I think it is all puppy really.

Any survival tips, commiseration, and general support is welcome. Also please share success stories of getting past this developmental stage if you have them! And when?


"Nothing is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."
Hamlet Prince of Denmark
 

kbuchanan66

Well-Known Member
Ah yes the 6 month Brain Fart . Where puppies seem to forget most (if not all) the basic commands and manners they have been using for months.

I too have experienced this frustrating phenomena. Barron's was around 6 months and lasted a good spell(3 months I believe). It takes persistence and yes sanity to get through it. I myself basically did 2 training sessions a day working on all the commands he knew. He also lost a llot of freedom he had earned previously such as being left alone in the house, off leash time & playing with his favorite neighbor kids for the very fact that he would not listen.

Always set your pup up to succeed. If you are unsure if he is going to respond to your command than find a way he cannot refuse you. A super tasty treat, a favorite toy.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Isn't it amazing how neutering is supposed to fix everything?

Take him back to basics when it comes to training, and socialize the heck out of him.

Make him actually perform for the reward too. If you ask for a sit, then he has to actually SIT, not just briefly touch butt to ground. Require polite behavior to get petted. He does't get his food bowl till he's polite. And so on.
 

Smokeycat

Well-Known Member
I took away all privileges that Kryten had earned when he reached that stage and he had to earn them all over again. NILF was great. The first month of his 'terrible twos' stage was the worst but it did get better until one day he suddenly reverted to being well behaved again.
 

Siloh

Well-Known Member
I too have experienced this frustrating phenomena. Barron's was around 6 months and lasted a good spell(3 months I believe). It takes persistence and yes sanity to get through it.
To this (3 months!!!) I responded with hysterical, crazed laughter and poured myself a shot (I barely drink).

But to Kryten becoming well behaved again after adolescence, I toasted.

Well, I certainly have started aggressively socializing like never before since the "new street incident." Today we went to the park and he walked with Annie, the beagle. I have to say, I was totally impressed. After about two laps around a track, they both sort of synched up (I never walk them together except on trails in the woods because Hamlet gets way too excited about walking with Annie typically), and Hamlet was actually better behaved than Annie once he adjusted. I have to say I am THRILLED by his response to having children running around everywhere, which is essentially no response at all. He seems to think it's okay to lung at teenagers for attention, but kids don't elicit more than a calm glance. I hope to keep it this way by exposing him more and more to the park. The goal today was exposure to walking together in a medium-high stimulus environment (skate park on one side of the track, playground on the other), and he did really really well.

But dear lord... Three months... Let's hope it doesn't take that long. And then worse craziness begins at 12-ish months, right??? God help us.


"Nothing is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."
Hamlet Prince of Denmark
 

Siloh

Well-Known Member
Isn't it amazing how neutering is supposed to fix everything?

Take him back to basics when it comes to training, and socialize the heck out of him.

Make him actually perform for the reward too. If you ask for a sit, then he has to actually SIT, not just briefly touch butt to ground. Require polite behavior to get petted. He does't get his food bowl till he's polite. And so on.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. Ruth, not only does neutering fix EVERYTHING you feel is wrong with your 6 month old puppy, everything you LIKE about the pup stays totally static and wonderful. You didn't know that? ;)


"Nothing is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."
Hamlet Prince of Denmark
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
It's time to do work on some engagement exercises. LAT (look at that game) might work. You can look it up or I can tell you a bit about it. The hard part is you have to start on a neutral stimulus then work to a likable stimulus and then move on to a stimulus that worries the dog. Also this game only works on one dog/person at a time. You can't do LAT in a crowd, but it's a start to build focus and play some games.
 

Siloh

Well-Known Member
It's time to do work on some engagement exercises. LAT (look at that game) might work. You can look it up or I can tell you a bit about it. The hard part is you have to start on a neutral stimulus then work to a likable stimulus and then move on to a stimulus that worries the dog. Also this game only works on one dog/person at a time. You can't do LAT in a crowd, but it's a start to build focus and play some games.

So I just did some quick reading and it looks awesome. It seems like a natural step given that Hamlet is already fairly conditioned to give me eye contact when a distraction pops up. He knows "Look at me." What I'm reading seems to have the same outcome but seems a whole lot more solid and reinforcing and rewarding than how he has been trained, which is simply to give me eye contact when I ask. This has the added effect about 80% of the time of him instinctively looking at me when there is a distraction, since that is when I am most likely to ask for him to look.

Something I'm curious about--at what point do you phase treating out for this sort of thing? What is the obedience barometer/what does real success look like?

Super appreciate this tool and information.



"Nothing is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."
Hamlet Prince of Denmark
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. Ruth, not only does neutering fix EVERYTHING you feel is wrong with your 6 month old puppy, everything you LIKE about the pup stays totally static and wonderful. You didn't know that? ;)


"Nothing is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."
Hamlet Prince of Denmark

So I'm told lol
 

Smokeycat

Well-Known Member
But dear lord... Three months... Let's hope it doesn't take that long. And then worse craziness begins at 12-ish months, right??? God help us.


"Nothing is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."
Hamlet Prince of Denmark

Kryten was 8-12 months. He then had a couple weeks around 20 months I think.
 

Siloh

Well-Known Member
Kryten was 8-12 months. He then had a couple weeks around 20 months I think.

I'm seriously considering taking up meditation daily. Probably better than pouring a shot! Not to mention, now is suddenly seeming like a prime time to drop money on the excellent nearby training programs.

I tried using an all-nylon martingale on him the other day. It was just a bit too roomy frankly (it wasn't mine--I just wanted to take it for a quick spin). Somehow I think I expected a new tool to be some kind of miracle voodoo... I really think he behaves better on a flat collar. I will be getting him a martingale though to protect his trachea and neck/back health. I want a chain/nylon for the puppy stage just for walks and other training outings.


"Nothing is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."
Hamlet Prince of Denmark
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
So I just did some quick reading and it looks awesome. It seems like a natural step given that Hamlet is already fairly conditioned to give me eye contact when a distraction pops up. He knows "Look at me." What I'm reading seems to have the same outcome but seems a whole lot more solid and reinforcing and rewarding than how he has been trained, which is simply to give me eye contact when I ask. This has the added effect about 80% of the time of him instinctively looking at me when there is a distraction, since that is when I am most likely to ask for him to look.

Something I'm curious about--at what point do you phase treating out for this sort of thing? What is the obedience barometer/what does real success look like?

Super appreciate this tool and information.



"Nothing is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."
Hamlet Prince of Denmark

The LAT game is to capture the looking behavior and makes it clear to the dog that we do not interact with the stimulus. It's a little different from asking a dog to give eye contact. It's really marking and rewarding the dog for looking at the stimulus. The moment you mark and reward, the dog will automatically look back at you. As Leslie Devitt (the person that came up with this) puts it, you want to click for decisions.

Practicing in different environments will prepare you to phase out treats and go with something else, but it's important to practice enough where the dog no longer reacts to its triggers. I would say success is ignoring triggers/distractions and remaining focus on the handler's lead and where the dog will habitually just look and then redirect back to handler with/without cue and move on.

Here are some videos

This one is really good. Her technique and clicks are spot on.

[video=youtube;EdraNF2hcgA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdraNF2hcgA[/video]

Another explanation of LAT. Her clicking is a little slow.

[video=youtube;fU1gAI42MH4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU1gAI42MH4&list=PLalqzPxWmRjH_6A3bZmBRp3RppNO_Kdix&index=2[/video]

Beginning stages

[video=youtube;qTSdwTD0m5A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTSdwTD0m5A&list=PLalqzPxWmRjH_6A3bZmBRp3RppNO_Kdix[/video]
[video=youtube;R0kHHJQ_eK8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0kHHJQ_eK8[/video]
[video=youtube;tOotEe9oqnE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOotEe9oqnE[/video]

Here's a good video showing the dog was not close enough to the trigger to even look, so they move closer and play the game.

[video=youtube;ksJiO6hJ7Xs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksJiO6hJ7Xs&list=PLalqzPxWmRjH_6A3bZmBRp3RppNO_Kdix[/video]

Good technique, precise clicking
[video=youtube;2E2YqvRFBJg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E2YqvRFBJg&index=7&list=PLalqzPxWmRjH_6A3bZmBRp3RppNO_Kdix[/video]

This is an example of how not to play LAT. The dog is too close and is reactive.

[video=youtube;_vlMvz4V9Qs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vlMvz4V9Qs&list=PLalqzPxWmRjH_6A3bZmBRp3RppNO_Kdix[/video]

I PM you.
 
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kbuchanan66

Well-Known Member
I mean he was not all bad the whole 3 months. He increasingly got better in very small increments until eventually around 3 months he was back to normal lol.
 

Siloh

Well-Known Member
I am so into LAT Linda. We're going to start today. But LOL first video--the idea of my beagle/basset EVER being under threshold with a rabbit in sight is hilarious. There is nothing short of a mouse in my pocket that would bring her attention back to me if she even caught a scent indicating a rabbit within half a mile. :) Good thing Annie is in a place I'm totally happy with in her training and behavior (aside from the occasional attempt to sneak food off an unguarded plate).


"Nothing is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."
Hamlet Prince of Denmark
 

Siloh

Well-Known Member
The era of slobber has begun it seems.

I didn't really understand when I got Hamlet that he would get MORE wrinkles and (way, way) more slobbery. I'm not disappointed one bit--I love both of these things, odd as that may be. But good lord, I feel like he gains extra slobber reservoirs by the day. When he sits for his food two long lines of slobber instantly begin a slow hilarious descent to the floor!

Poor Hamlet has been spitting out baby teeth in a seemingly endless parade. But actually his behavioral issues seem to be leveling out a bit. Maybe this is a plateau. I have been doing a lot of obedience with him to tire him out when he refuses to sleep. Often I just crate him to control his sleeping schedule better.


"Nothing is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."
Hamlet Prince of Denmark