"a dogs purpose"

Discussion in 'General Mastiff Discussion' started by marke, Jan 19, 2017.

  1. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    I agree with reserving judgment until all the facts are available. However. The video shows a scared dog that was, as it appears to me, forced into the water. It doesn't matter if the dog was fine jumping in on the other side earlier or that there were people there in the water to ensure the safety of the dog and child. The dog, at that moment in time, appeared very scared and should not have been forced into the water. That was poor handling. To my untrained eye, that portion of the video didn't appear to be edited or altered.
    Yamizuma likes this.
  2. BlackShadowCaneCorso

    BlackShadowCaneCorso Super Moderator Staff Member

    to others there does appear to be editing, that is part of what the debate is in regards to. Which is why I will reserve judgement until all the facts are shown, PETA has shown their true colours far too often for me to take their side automatically.
    Yamizuma and fila4me like this.
  3. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    Oh, I agree about PETA. I have been a strong animal welfare advocate since I was a young girl. I learned when I was very young that they are not an organization that I wanted to be affiliated with.

    I do wish that any unedited footage would be released. I can't imagine that would be such a difficult thing to do.
    Yamizuma likes this.
  4. BlackShadowCaneCorso

    BlackShadowCaneCorso Super Moderator Staff Member

    I don't know if there are legal ramifications to releasing it or if they are attempting to do so but there is red tape. I know there have been back and forths all over FB in regards to it and knowing PETA I suspect there is some altering going on. We I guess will have to see as things come out as only time will tell, but I have gotten any number of messages and comments because I am not condemning the movie to other "according to some friends" clearly more dog lover people than me.
    Nik likes this.
  5. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    I don’t believe any amount of unediting will change the fact that at that moment that dog was terrified for it’s life , and the guy was trying to force it in the water ? along with the fact that in the second sequence when that dog was being pushed down stream , was pushed against wall and went under , it was again terrified ? do they abuse their animals , well if they make a habit of doing what’s in that minute of film , then yes they do ………. they may have treated the dog like a king prior to and afterwards , it won't change what you seen ......... if you catch a guy robbing your house , do you assume it's probably his first and only time , and he's not a thief ?

    The producer wrote “"As with the TMZ video that you saw, two things were evident: (1) the dog handler tries to force the dog, for 35 to 40 seconds, into the water when, clearly, he didn’t want to go in; and (2) in a separate take filmed sometime later, the dog did go into the water, on his own, and, at the end, his head is submerged for about 4 seconds. These two things are absolutely INEXCUSABLE and should NEVER have happened," Polone wrote.”

    I personally don’t care what peta thinks , what’s on the video shown isn’t gonna change …….. they need to release their own videos of the dog happily doing the stunt , they claim to have them …….. I’m doubting we’ll be seeing them , ever ……….. what do you think a budget is on a movie like that ? how much you think they'll lose ? how could you watch the movie after seeing that and take it seriously ? if they have video they really need to show it to undo some of the damage .........

    The author said this

    “Cameron issued a formal statement about the dog in the video, proclaiming that "the dog was not terrified and not thrown in the water", but was merely uncomfortable with the specific area of the pool he was commanded to enter, which was apparently unfamiliar to him:” ……. "He loves the water, wasn’t in danger, and wasn’t upset.”

    The dog was merely “uncomfortable with the specific area “ and “upset”
  6. Nik

    Nik Well-Known Member

    As someone who has worked in a corporate setting for years I am very familiar with red tape and being limited by what one's legal department allows. It could easily be the case that they aren't being allowed to release their own footage. I'm inclined to wait and see what comes out.

    I also know that there are days my dogs don't want to perform tricks or commands that they have happily done a million other times. As the one training them I sometimes try to push the point and out-stubborn them waiting for the "sit" or "down" or "come around" or whatever command they are balking at for whatever reason. Sometimes out-stubborning my dogs works and others I have to decide when to let it go and move onto something different. So maybe the trainer/handler was being abusive or maybe we just saw a snippet of coverage edited and pieced together in a way to make it look as bad as possible.
    Yamizuma likes this.
  7. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    I think there's a big difference between being stubborn and being afraid. That dog wasn't being stubborn. That dog was terrified. That's just my opinion though.
    marke likes this.
  8. Nik

    Nik Well-Known Member

    The dog looked scared to me as well. But, again there are days when weird things freak Diesel out that don't normally scare him (though this happens much less than it used to). But, it could be we would be on a walk and one day the fire hydrant has him freaked out and the next it doesn't. I really don't know. But, it is weird to me that they stitched the vid from different days together the way they did. It felt manufactured to point the audience to a particular conclusion and maybe it was the correct conclusion or maybe not. I'm hoping more info comes out about this.
  9. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    that dog was clawing for his life ............. when he went under , it looked like he just gave up ...............
  10. BlackShadowCaneCorso

    BlackShadowCaneCorso Super Moderator Staff Member

  11. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    If they’re looking for someone to blame , I would think it’s the company that supplied the trainers and animals , “birds and animals unlimited” , their website seems to have been taken down ….. the dog was ill prepared , he was trying to get as far away from that water as possible from the instant the video started , he was pushing against the guy holding him ,he’d have fallen over had the guy moved , if the guy wasn’t holding him the dog obviously would have gotten out of there asap ……. To be afraid just standing there , imo , it was either a timid dog , or a dog that had a bad experience previous ……. The “trainer” was absolutely clueless , understanding a scared dog is not going to respond well to force is a pretty simple concept to grasp …..………… hopefully they lose a ton of money , it’ll make the next guy more careful of what experts they hire , and I’m sure they all can afford it …… as far as peta , I don’t need them to point out animal abuse to me , if I looked for it I could find it , and a lot worse than what's on that video , everyday of the week on my own ……. these are two recent ones , niether one pointed out by peta ...

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
  12. Nik

    Nik Well-Known Member

    I had seen the first case pictured above. That is absolutely horrific and I certainly hope those guys face justice. I haven't seen the other recent starved dog case but I have seen so many similar. It is absolutely tragic.
  13. MastiffMillie

    MastiffMillie Member

    Those pictures are horrific. I know these things happen but have never had experience of it other than on the news (but these things don't often make the news do they)I cannot work out the first picture. Actually, I think I can see what (knives, blood...) but I want to fool myself into thinking that nobody would do that. I also hope those excuses for human beings face justice.

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  14. MastiffMillie

    MastiffMillie Member

    They were detained and fined 4,404 lira.

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  15. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    People do it, Sarah. I fostered a boxer that I named Vincent Van Gogh who had his ears cut off like that. Not quite that close to the head, but close enough. Unfortunately our laws, and it seems the laws in every country, are woefully inadequate when it comes to animal cruelty.
  16. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    the starved dog was just this week in Cleveland , I too have seen dogs with their ears cut of with scissors by their owner ....... and I agree it's heartbreaking
  17. PippatheMastiff

    PippatheMastiff Active Member

  18. Yamizuma

    Yamizuma Active Member

    I have worked in the production community here for years, and the people here are almost to a person not the kind of people who would do terrible things to a dog. To each other, well, that's a different story.

    Two things strike me about this.

    A) the editing
    B) the timing

    Who shoots such a thing and sits on it until right before the release? Clearly these are not continuous images.

    That the person responsible for oversight has been suspended until the investigation is complete - that's perfectly appropriate and not evidence of guilt. Lots of people get accused of wrongdoing and that doesn't make them guilty.

    I will wait to see where the investigation goes, and wherever that ends up. If someone hurt a dog, I hope they burn in hell. If not, then I hope the people who made it look like that happened will suffer as terrible a fate.

    So much false news and bullshit to sift through, and so many real horrors too.

    And if whoever did a bad thing, either to a dog or for profit in the media, is someone I know, I can assure you I will make it very personal indeed.

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  19. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    i believe it opens today? i think the opening week of movie is critical in how much money they make . the fact nothing has been done as far as showing the dog happily doing the stunt makes me think they'll just let the bad press fade away ......... they don't deny the videos are what happened in those two instances ,there isn't going to be anyone suing anyone ......... their defense is that was not how they normally treat the animals , they imply it was a one time deal , they claim the stunt was done many times with the dog happily jumping in , they claim to have video of it , the dog is alive and well , and no animals were harmed . it really won't make much of a difference if they do or don't have video of the dog happily doing the stunt after the movie opens ........ i'm gonna guess the film will open today , whatever damage was done by the video will be absorbed , and the news stories will dissipate ......... probably a disgruntled worker , they obviously were filming it expecting to get something , you wonder how they knew they would get something ........
  20. Hector

    Hector Well-Known Member

    How come no one is talking about how the video clip is now fake, fake as in it did not happen during the shooting of this movie?
    dpenning likes this.

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