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Aggressive EM with female children

Lacie

New Member
My EM, Murphee, just turned 2 years old this week. I have been living by myself and the 3 dogs I have until 2 months ago. There are no small children in my family and I don't have kids except the dogs. My boyfriend moved in about 2 months ago and has 2 kids, a boy that is 10 and a girl that is 8. The boy and Murphee get along very well for the most part. As for the 8 year old girl and him they are having issues. Murphee charges her when she does something as little as stand up. He hasn't bitten her but he "pecks" at her and nips. The living situation would be wonderful if it wasn't for this. I've always heard that mastiffs are so good with kids an are gentle giants but he does not fit either of those descriptions. A friend of mine brought over her 3 year old girl and he did the same thing with her. Does anyone know what I should do or try?!
 

Cody

Well-Known Member
It sounds like he thinks he is the boss, that he is correcting her.
What do you do when he does this?
I suggest getting a behaviorist to come to your home and see the pack dynamic.
You need to get right on this before something bad happens. When he was young did you socialize him with kids?
In my house ANY dominant behavior over ANY person, especially a child, is worthy of a "fear of god" punishment. I have 0 tolerance when it comes to that.
My kids are placed higher then the dogs, dogs are not allowed on furniture, and my 6 year old son feeds the dogs, and then gives them the eat command. No one touches any food before he says, as he is higher up.
I love my dogs, but they are just that, my dogs not my kids.
You need to get control of the situation before it becomes a nightmare.
Mastiffs are good with kids when properly raised, socialized and given the appropriate boundaries. You have a whole lot of work a head of you.
 

Lacie

New Member
He was never around any kids as a puppy because there are no kids in my family. The 3 year old belongs to a friend of mine and we just met awhile back so she was never over here until recently. I live in a very small town so getting a behaviorist to come over may be way out the price range that I can afford, nearest city is 2 hours away. I called my vet about the situation and he really didn't give me any advice. When he does this we don't hit him but we correct him with a stern "no" or "bad dog" and put him outside or in his crate for a timeout I guess you could say. I'm wondering if the situation would be the same if we were in another environment like taking him on a walk or go to the park. It also seems weird that he only does this with girls and not boys.
 

tink77

Member
I have a EM and when he was 9 weeks old we had a behaviorist come one time and watch the dog and then worked with him and us. After that one time he stop sniping at us and other stuff in the house. I also made sure he knew who the boss was and now he 2 yrs old and a great dog. They are so big you have to let them know who in charge. Kelso is 250 lbs and my two 10 years olds can walk him with know problems. It is worth finding one that will come and work with you and they are out there.
 
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Sabrina

Well-Known Member
I agree with Cody...this behavior needs to be nipped in the bud now....he needs to know that he has no right trying to dominate these girls...he needs a strong, strict correction by you...this is different for different people but there is a hole in your pack structure if he thinks he can treat these little girls like this in front of you and your boyfriend....he is not respecting you guys as leaders by behaving this way and he needs to be put in his place...
 

PuppyPaws

Well-Known Member
I am not a behaviorist, but I have some limited experience with training. Of course, a forum is not the best way to provide training tips as I don't know your exact situation and am not able to evaluate the household dynamics and pack structure, but I would seriously consider getting someone to come and evaluate this behavior.

In the meantime, I would seriously restructure my relationship with the dog. Take him back to ground zero. First and foremost, he must NEVER be left unsupervised with any children not even for a few seconds. He must work to earn any reward whether its a treat, or interaction with you or another family member. Privelages must be earned. He must sit, stay, come, wait, etc. before doing anything or getting anything. This should be the case even when you don't have visitors. I would also consider keeping a leash on him in the house. Some people call this "tethering" or the "umbilical cord" method. That way you have access to him at all times. This will also give you more control over him and his proximity to her. They should not be close enough to each other to allow him to nip at her. If he is inappropriate to her at any point, he is scolded in an unemotional tone and is removed from the situation. Becoming overly emotional and overcorrecting could stir up more emotion in an already "alert" dog which cause more of a problem.

There is also a balance to find with growling and it is hard to judge what to do in your situation but I would be careful to not get into correcting him harshly for growling. You don't want him growling at people but, Growling is a signal that the dog is upset and it is his way of giving a warning. You don't want him to loose the warning signal and learn to just go straight into nipping or biting. If he displays any sort of inappropriate behavior, raising his hackles, growling, staring, etc. He should be again unemotionally told NO and removed from the area as quickly as possible with as little talk as possible. He must know that without a shadow of a doubt, you will not allow this behavior with those you have accepted into your home and that his inappropriate response is what landed him outside the room and in isolation. When she or any other child is around and he is behaving appropriately, you could try creating a positive association with them by giving him some special yummy treat that he is not allowed except when they are there and he is appropriate. As he was not exposed to children for most of his life, this may take a LONG time. You must remain steadfast in your retraining for his safety and the safety of everyone.
Some other things to think about or consider are:
* What is setting him off? Is it that she has a shrill voice? Is it the activity? Is it the quick movements that children make? Pay close attention and see if you can identify any triggers. This would be useful info. for future training.
* Also, is he getting enough exercise? I tired dog is a more manageable dog. You might even consider taking him for a walk or playing a game with him in the backyard before children come to your house. This might help to take some of the "edge" off him prior to their arrival.

Again, these are only suggestions and food for thought based on your brief description of the problem. You best bet would be to have someone evaluate the situation and give you more situation specific advice. You are right to be concerned. This is a potentially very dangerous situation. I commend you for trying to get help. Do not give up on this. Good Luck!!! Do some research, make some phone calls and see if you can find someone to help you. Sending good "vibes" your way for the training.

---------- Post added at 02:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 AM ----------

Oh yeah, one more thing....
Do you have a crate? It may be that you have to crate him while children are over. This has other considerations that go along with it and how to do it in the most effective manner. Also, the children would have to be clearly instructed not to bother him while in the crate. There are different options in how to do this and as I don't know the exact severity of the situation (although I do consider any nipping of a child Severe), this would be something to talk to a behaviorist about. There are so many "unknowns" in situations like this, it is impossible to give any hard, fast instructions on what to do in this situation. I hate to hear that you are dealing with this and hope you can find someone to give you the assistance you need. Good Luck!
 

PuppyPaws

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, one more thing....
Do you have a crate? It may be that you have to crate him while children are over. This has other considerations that go along with it and how to do it in the most effective manner. Also, the children would have to be clearly instructed not to bother him while in the crate. There are different options in how to do this and as I don't know the exact severity of the situation (although I do consider any nipping of a child Severe), this would be something to talk to a behaviorist about. There are so many "unknowns" in situations like this, it is impossible to give any hard, fast instructions on what to do in this situation. I hate to hear that you are dealing with this and hope you can find someone to give you the assistance you need. Good Luck!
 

Ripsmom

Well-Known Member
I wonder if the kid is giving signals that she is a little nervous or ambivalent around him?? dogs will pick up on that quickly and sometimes start to bully...I agree with the advice "puppypaws" gave, and i do agree that you really should try to get a trainer. if you can't get someone to come to the house i wonder if you can find a trainer that does group classes and bring the 8 yr old with you where she can work the dog a bit (supervised of course), this will strengthen her place as being above him. The other thing you might try is having her provide his food, and making him work for it like a sit or a down..same with treats and letting him outside (supervised of course) If he starts to view her as someone who provides his resources he should start to change his opinion of her to someone higher up in the hierarchy. His age may play a role here too since he just turned two he's mature now (mentally), although he still may have some growing to do physically; if he is not neutered, my advice is to have that done ASAP, it may take the edge off... especially since he seems to be a bit pushy. while you are working all of this out do not leave him unattended with her and instruct her to avoid direct eye contact with him... stupid things happen quickly. i also agree that getting him crate trained will be a huge asset for you and he also should not be allowed on furniture including and especially any of the beds. This boy needs structure, rules and needs to learn what's what...he will probably do just fine with some training, consistency and involvement by the 8 yr old but i also agree that the longer you wait the tougher it'll be to get him on track