"Aggressive" towards others while on walks

[Franklin927]

"Aggressive" towards others while on walks

Hello, my wife and I have a 15 month old named Franklin. He is our first mastiff and we are realizing just how much of a handful these "little" guys can be.

Franklin has recently in the last month or so has changed a little for us. Before this change when we would take him on walks he was always VERY friendly towards everyone he would pull (but that is a whole other issue for a thread in the future) with excitement and no bark eager to meet the person or other dog(s).

In the end of October my wife and I got married and went on a honeymoon, while we were away Franklin stayed with my parents. When we got him back Franklin was completely different, we originally thought he was just angry at us for leaving him and we hoped it would go away. He was beginning to be, what we considered aggressive towards other people and other dogs, even little Fofo dogs 90 times smaller than him. Now while on walks Franklin is now barking, pulling and lurching toward other dogs and people especially if he has never met then before, I think it is worst for my wife than I but it could have something to do with a strength thing where I can get him under control more easily.

We decided to get a personal trainer when this did not seem to get better. We have had the trainer now for about 6 weeks coming every 10 days or so to check up on progress in between sessions. She has been great but we still have not been able to right this "aggressive" behavior to a point where he broke away from my wife the other day and jumped on a jogger, who thank god was alright and understood what we were going through.

We are starting to get stumped as to what is going on with our boy and if there is anything that we could be or should be doing to fix it. It is odd to us because this only seems to happen when we are on walks (Is it a leash thing?). Franklin has no issue with people he has never met before coming into the house, which I thought he would have more issue with because it would be his territory.

I have read some threads mentioning a fear stage. Could he be going through this? And if so any guidance on what we should be preparing for?

Thanks so much for any help you can provide!

-Mike

 

[DennasMom]

Re: "Aggressive" towards others while on walks

My first guess would be a fear response, but I'm not sure that's it.
We had a similar issue with a previous dog - we left him with our dog trainer (at her 'ranch') for a week at Christmas when he was ~5 months old. When he came home, he had acquired a fear of strangers (I think a fear of abandonment was the rood-cause), that we were never able to fully cure him of. But... 5 months is a LOT different than 15 months. So, I think you should be in a much better position.

My second guess is that he was 'un-trained' while you were away... he tried some things and got away with them, so he's still using them.

I'm not sure what methods your personal trainer is using, but I'd try an all-positive method... This is what we do:
When I see someone coming on our walks, we move off to the side and I put Denna in a sit (this alone puts strangers at ease, and we often get "ah, what a good dog" comments!) - I put a treat in my hand and keep her attention on me until the person passes, then she gets the treat. If she looks at the person, then back at me without any reaction... TREAT!!!!!!!! Reward for looking, but not reacting, and looking to the human for guidance, BIG time.

If you get a reaction to the stranger, try moving further off the sidewalk into someone's driveway or yard or across the street, to get some distance - still doing the sit exercise - until you find how far away you need to be for no reaction and he's able to keep the focus on you (so you can reward what you DO want).

If there's no interest in the treat, what-so-ever... try higher-value treats. Freeze dried liver or real chicken normally can keep any dog's interest.

If you need to find some stranger "guinea pigs" for training purposes, you can always walk over to a strip mall or grocery store, and slowly move in toward where the people are walking - be sure you stop once you get a reaction and get back to where you can reward for good behavior. After a few repetitions (days? weeks?) you'll be able to move in closer.

Another mental exercise that helps - is to consider every stranger and little dog on your walks as "training opportunities" and "challenges" instead of "problems" to be afraid or stressed out about. If you're stressing out about what Franklin's going to do to that little foofoo dog up ahead... you can bet he's going to pick on your energy and start formulating a plan to protect you from it.

Hopefully some of the pro's on the forum will chime in with some other (better?) ideas, too.

 

[jcook]

Re: "Aggressive" towards others while on walks

I don't want to make it look like I think your parents are responsible, but it seems to me like something happened while you were gone. When Adam and I went out of town Stella actually came back to us with less fear of strangers and better behaved. I don't know much about fixing aggression. But I do think its abnormal for a dog to suddenly show aggression at 15 months. Usually there are warning signs earlier on. Also, what kind of mastiff is he?

 

[Franklin927]

Re: "Aggressive" towards others while on walks

Thanks for the replies!

Denna, I like your idea we were actually doing a lot of that before, but started some other things when we got the trainer. The odd thing was that before our wedding Franklin never barked or lurched at anyone or anything even when they got close the reason we switched was because he is now starting to do it at 50 feet away. If he doesn't know the dog (there are about 5-6 in our neighborhood that he used to play in an open field with) he will lock on them bark and pull. Comforting him by telling its alright will calm him down a bit but he is still focused in until they are out of sight.

Here is some more back story so I was kind of nervous leaving him with my parents because of his size and their age. So I gave them strict instructions to only take him out back and NOT for walks because Franklin is friendly and will pull. Well my father is as stubborn as Franklin and one morning decided to take Franklin for a walk. While on the walk the saw some people and Franklin wanted to say hi he pulled my dad causing him to fall and hit his head. My dad needed stitches. But Franklin didn't show any aggression towards these people who brought Franklin to my parents house as they were getting my mother for help.

Is speaking with my wife about the jogger incident I she said Franklin didn't chase after the jogger until he was past them. Thanking the stance that my "son" isn't a bad kid. Could Franklin have seen this jogger as a playmate? He has been know to chase me a around the yard and house.

Is there anything that I could be looking for to tell if his behavior is aggressive or defensive or fearful or playful?

Mr. Cook, what would be some early warning signs that I may have missed earlier on? And what are your thoughts in regards to Franklin only showing this behavior outside on walks and not when strangers come into the house?

Franklin is a EM.

 

[jcook]

Re: "Aggressive" towards others while on walks

Im not sure if the dog is being aggressive or just playful. But it's still not acceptable behavior for any dog, let alone a huge mastiff to be jumping on or chasing people lol. In my experience dogs are more likely to be suspicious of strangers in their house than strangers that are outside. I do know of some dogs that have more issues on leash than they do off leash. Does he growl at the people? Is his tail wagging?

So, when your dad fell did these other people took Franklin (without your dad) back to the house? Maybe this was a stressful event for him?

And warning signs that I can think of are things like being an overly fearful puppy, food aggression, does the dog snap when you take a toy or object out of its mouth, does the dog seem to challenge you?. Does the dog seem to get in a lot of scuffles with other dogs? Does the dog 'play' with other dogs (our english bulldog is not what i would call aggressive, but he is possessive and dominant, therefore we only bring him around certain dogs, and we dont completely trust him around kids). I think if we let him be around a bunch of kids then it would only be a matter of time before something bad happened and I think one bad event could ruin his ability to at least not be a total jerk around kids. Stella (CC) is still a pup, but she was fearful of things on wheels (bikes, skateboards, etc...) and I didnt want that to eventually turn into aggression, so I would treat her every time we went passed one and she kept walking. Today, we are doing much better around things on wheels lol.

Maybe Franklin needs to go back to basics with leash training (no pulling).

 

[chuckorlando]

Re: "Aggressive" towards others while on walks

IMO there would be a significant diff in the dogs demeanor with play and not play. Specifically when he first took off, tackled and after the tackle. No offence to the ladies, but if your wife cant hold the dog, she should'nt walk the dog until you have this worked out. I'm no trainer so I wont enter my ignorance on that. But I will give a few tips on keeping the dog from getting off. I would suggest a thick collar and a leash in one hand. A harness with a leash in the other hand. Call it a fail safe. And learn to lean fast in the opposite direction or your just gonna get drug. When someone is approaching grab the handle on the harness but keep your hand through the handle on the leash. Thats a fail safe to the fail safe. The other hand you wrap the collared leash up tight as well so the dog has no leeway. And if you need, stradle the dog so your legs can hold the ass. And a muzzle aint a bad idea

---------- Post added at 07:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:50 AM ----------

Oh and those leashes should be wrapped up in a manner that they wont just pull out your hand. You can never let an aggressive dog free. Ever. Even if it means you get drug 10 blocks and have broken bones. Cause had that guy reacted badly, it could very well cause your dog to ramp up the attack. Even go from play to defend. If someone was really hurt or died... Well lets just say you would rather be paying your own medical bills than theirs

 

[chuckorlando]

Re: "Aggressive" towards others while on walks

Oh and those leashes should be wrapped up in a manner that they wont just pull out your hand. You can never let an aggressive dog free. Ever. Even if it means you get drug 10 blocks and have broken bones. Cause had that guy reacted badly, it could very well cause your dog to ramp up the attack. Even go from play to defend. If someone was really hurt or died... Well lets just say you would rather be paying your own medical bills than theirs

 

[Sasha]

Re: "Aggressive" towards others while on walks

I've noticed that anytime I have to be away for a day it takes 3 times longer for my dog to go back to the way she was. When I'm gone she stays with my parents who spoil her rotten so I know she's being treated ok, but I think she is just fearful of me being gone. I'm not sure how long it's been now that your back from your honeymoon (congratulations btw). I'd just try to give her extra time and patience

 

[jcook]

Re: "Aggressive" towards others while on walks

I agree with the muzzle at least until progress is made. better safe than sorry.

 

[Franklin927]

Re: "Aggressive" towards others while on walks

Thanks so much for all the responses...

We had a great training session this weekend with Franklin and out trainers at the dog park, or at least outside the dog park I should say. And we were able to experience a similar jogger situation with the trainers, I say this as a positive because someone who knew what they were seeing was able to evaluate.

So in the end what the trainers believe they are seeing is a leadership issue, meaning that Franklin thinks he is leading us. He sees us not "adjusting" to the jogger who he thinks is threatening therefore he is thinking I got this and barks and jumps at him/her. We will be having sessions to teach Franklin that the joggers are not threatening, as well as leadership building. I will be posting a new thread in regard for leadership building suggestions.

Thanks again for all your posts and suggestions!!!!

-Mike