Banning of training tools petition

Discussion in 'Cane Corso' started by Steven C, May 21, 2019.

  1. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    *I* have never attacked you. As I have never called you, or any other person on this forum, a name. Please someone tell me if I'm wrong because I'm very open to criticism and will do my best to be less "abrasive," "aggressive," and I'll try to stop "attacking" other members. Disagreeing with you Steven and asking you to clarify things is not an attack. It's discussion. This is a discussion forum. People come here to learn. You offer "facts" and have nothing to back them up. You refuse to post legitimate research or sources despite being asked repeatedly to do so. You expect others to just agree that you're opinion is the right one. I'd think you'd embrace the opportunity to prove that you're right, but you never have.

    You've been on this site more than a year. Would you care for a list of the members, myself and Marke included, that have lost beloved dogs? The list from the last year is actually quite long.

    It should also be noted that Glen's urination comment has nothing on your use of profanity towards another member. Nice adult behavior there.
    glen likes this.
  2. kingmark

    kingmark Active Member

    Steve you are really a mental nutcase and you dont have to hide it any more. This forum is all about the dogs and with many different opinions from which we all can learn, well all except you obviously. You call my dog backyard dog? What does that mean as i have a front yard and my princess loves it. If you are aluding to her being poor bred ,i am 100% sure that she has healthier pedigree than your poor dog. Also i can take my dog anywhere and i really mean anywhere even as she doesnt like 90% of females i still take here to female boerboel dog show and she was the best behaved. My breeder states in her contract that he doesnt recommend to take boerboels in to shoping malls ,well my girl goes shopping with me in the stores anywhere dogs are allowed we go and in all that time she doesnt have and never didnt have not prong e collar or anything like that. Your dog is what you make off it ,my girl was full hands of work much much more than my late male and i managed all that without any tools. Is she still a real true boerboel as you like to make a point, of course she is make no doubt about it. She will protect instantly if there is a need and really that kind of powerfull dogs are not for anyone they are not a joke. And yes if you live in bad place then move yourself or get a gun that is my honest advice, better than turning your dog in to a weapon which eventually you could not control as you are already strugling. Many people have different views and as marke said you learn through your all life. I thought that i know with dogs as i had rottweiler and a cross before, so i got boerboel and learned that is the whole new game and almost everyday i learn something new. We all learn and help each other and that is this forum for as we are all dog lover ,and i dont doubt that that you are also but hey relax a little bit and enjoy the moment maybe that will also help your dog as they all sense our slightest feeling. Cheers from f.prick!
    Bailey's Mom and glen like this.
  3. glen

    glen Super Moderator Staff Member

    You have never been abbrassive, aggressive and certainly never attacked any member on this forum.
    You go above and beyond to help, you can only help the ones that are open to change and realise what they are doing just isnt the right way for there dog...
    For those that wont accept help and change will blame the dog and breed, and presume other owners dogs that dont have the problems are not true to the breeds.
    I for one am very grateful for your input and advice to this forum. Thankyou
    Bailey's Mom and DennasMom like this.
  4. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    Thank you Glen. I value your input and advice as well. Just as I do all of our other members.
    glen likes this.
  5. Nik

    Nik Well-Known Member

    Copywritten material???? This is literally just a social forum to share knowledge, advice and love of mastiffs. I personally have been on this forum for years and have found the support, advice and civil discussion to be valuable and have made some good friends who I respect in the process. Right now you are acting disrespectful and quite frankly like the trolls I see on Facebook and I am not a fan of trolls. Now, as someone who occasionally does get hormonal and emotional I understand we all have bad days and go through moods so I am hoping that is what the case is with your behavior here on this thread.
  6. Steven C

    Steven C Active Member

    Bye June 15th I am expecting my content removed off this site, this is my 4th request and the 15th will give ample time. I have to leave requests inside the actual forum as there are no terms and conditions with webmaster emails, there are no terms and conditions with physical address for certified letters. Also the contact form is not working on the site. I have direct messaged Vicky as she stated she was selling this site and could be contacted there. This is my formal request as the webmaster has read my requests and is choosing to ignore them.

    Otherwise, I will follow through with notifying hosting, Google, Bing and whoever else I may have to and we can let them decide on what is copywritten and or what my rights are. Its just not worth it, not worth the trouble in my opinion, its a very simple request, I have little content which has been pointed out as to its invalidity due to my non factual evidence. I will be relentless is having this content removed so if "Vicky" or whoever is in charge of content is reading this. I am respectfully requesting the removal of every single posting, response and word I have written in this forum and subsequently my account.
  7. DennasMom

    DennasMom Well-Known Member

    I figured we would be able to delete our own accounts... but I don't see that as an option in the account settings.

    I think the easiest thing is just to not come visit the site anymore, Steven C.
    Crazy how this thread got waaaay out of control...

    I was going to sign your petition, but it's for WA, Australia, not WA, USA.

    I've never had to use a prong on a dog I've raised as a puppy... but we adopted a 1yr old very stubborn, bull-headed bull-dog mix who liked to attack our submissive 5 yr old Dane/Lab mix (when he was asleep). That bulldog had learned in his previous life that if he ignored any command, he could do what HE wanted... so his "ignore" threshold was VERY high. But... a puppy prong (suggested by our I don't go to any more) was plenty enough to help him "listen". Between that and finding out that he would do anything for fresh-cooked-chicken (processed treats had no value)... we turned him around... 98% of the way. He would still randomly attack our other dog after 3 years of progress, so we found him a new home where he could be an only dog... and he was THRILLED with his new family (which even included a cat!).

    I put a prong on Denna when she was about 2yrs old, just to see how she'd react, and if it would remove that last 1% of pulling on the leash she sometimes likes to do... NOPE. She flopped on the ground as soon as I clipped it on (with ZERO pressure) and then let me drag her around by that prong... as soon as I took it off, she hopped up next to me and walked like the polite pup she is. LOL. I use a cotton slip collar (like they use in show-rings)... as a puppy, Denna would stop to sniff stuff, and I'd pull her flat collar off right over her head. Oops. :)
  8. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    I've been on forums since we got our first computer in 1994. I've never been on one where you could delete your own profile. Some allowed for free editing of posts, but I've found that most don't allow that beyond a certain amount of time anymore. That's just my experience. I'm sure there are others that allow members more control, I just haven't been on any.

    LOL on the collar sliding off her head. My Leo had a big neck. I was walking along the parkway one time and thinking how well he was keeping up. He liked to mosey along. I looked back and I was just dragging a collar and Leo was about ten feet behind me looking at me like I was crazy. I switched to an all nylon martingale after that. Ella reacted the same way that Denna did to a prong. I tried one because I was concerned when she started to equal me in weight. She lopped down as soon as I put in on and wouldn't move. That's the last time I used a prong. She's a soft girl and doesn't do well with aversive tools of any kind. She's also very dog aggressive, so I know that there are ways to work with difficult dogs that don't require certain tools. We used to be about the same weight, but right now she outweighs me by 30 pounds. I'm very glad that I put in the work I did because she could take me off my feet easily now.
  9. BlackShadowCaneCorso

    BlackShadowCaneCorso Super Moderator Staff Member

    Wow, well that went of the rails fast. As someone who might have been here for a bit of time (almost 10 years) I can tell you that the reason most left and didn't return wasn't due to info/advise/posts here but due to some issues that were with the board owners. It put a lot of people (of longtime use) off. There will never be a consensus by everyone on what the best method on anything should be. Steve C you said your piece about how you feel about the Ban and the others said theirs, you can't force people to agree with you and then personally attack their dogs (whom you have never met) on the assumption because they do not use the same tools you do that their dogs are not as "trained" as yours is.

    As for your posts being removed, I believe you would have to provide documented proof of copy write on the materials you are talking about. Also as the video you post have belonged to other individuals their videos would not fall under your copy written privileges.

    In the end this forum is likely not the best fit for you, and that is okay. I hope you find one better suited to your needs and that you move forward with your life.
    Bailey's Mom and glen like this.
  10. Nik

    Nik Well-Known Member

    This is very much the approach I take on the whole tools issue or any type of training method. I don't really think there is any "one size fits all" training method. Every dog is different. My dog Cerberus I couldn't even raise my voice with he was so sensitive. Even the sense that I was slightly displeased and he would just melt into a pathetic helpless puddle and I had him since a small puppy and know for a fact he never faced any abuse. It was just his personality. But he did respond beautifully to any offer of treats and I could take him anywhere and everywhere with me.

    Kahlua is also very soft though not quite as soft as Cerberus was. I have had her since puppyhood as well so it is just who she is. She is very eager to please and responds quite well to praise and rewards. In the rare occasion that her brain shuts down (and yes it does happen) pulling out the angry mom voice works and that is the extend of corrective that she needs. I can take her almost anywhere and I do. She doesn't do well with other dogs though. She just doesn't like them (except for Diesel) so we don't go places off leash with her.

    Diesel is different. He is stubborn and head strong and not soft at all. He does not have that "eager to please" gene. He has the "whats in it for me" gene. We have done mostly reward based training with him and lots and lots of NILF. NILF is our bible. It is the greatest thing on earth and it is our savior. Without NILF we would have gone nowhere with him because reward training wasn't enough. Sometimes the thing he wants to do that we don't want is more enticing than any treat or toy we can offer. He is also the reason we discovered the freedom harness which I adore and works great on him. The freedom harness and pushing him around occasionally (Not in an abusive or aggressive way but in a hey dodo brain pay attention to me way) is about the extent of the physical corrective training we have needed to use with him. We have never had to resort to prongs or chokers or shock collars etc. But, his bad behavior has never been violent or dangerous. He is a super happy and loving dog and a social butterfly. Just stubborn. We can and do take him everywhere.... except maybe into a china shop because bulls and china shops and all that and even on his best behavior that tail of his is a weapon with its constant wagging.

    My point is that just like people each dog has their own personality and when you throw personal histories into the mix it gets even murkier. None of my dogs have personal histories beyond being pampered spoiled much loved babies. They have all been with me their entire lives. They are mostly indoor dogs but they have a giant yard to play and romp in and use the restroom in. They sleep in our bed at night, Diesel taken over my reading chair in my office and sleeps there while I work all day while Kahlua sleeps in a dog bed at my feet. Diesel also has a dog bed in the office but he prefers the chair. They take over the couch most days and Kahlua still doesn't understand why she can't just hop into my lap when I'm sitting in our new (to us) lazy boy rocker. I have tried explaining to her that the giant baby tummy just can't accommodate a 68 lb lap dog and while she listens and gets off she is never very happy about it. And despite their pampered pooch status their entire lives they still each have their quirks and personalities. So I don't believe in one size fits all at all. I do believe in starting with the softer approaches and tailoring to the dog as needed. My angry mom voice comes out far more than I would like with Diesel but sometimes that is all he responds to and usually with a lot of huffing and grumbling involved at the time. In any case my soft raised dogs are no less obedient than my less soft raised dog so to claim that a dog that is raised purely with positive training can't be taken in public or isn't in the house with you is just plain silliness. They don't all need corrective training. Likewise some dogs are just so beyond stubborn that some amount of corrective training may be needed. No one size fits all.

    Anyhow not sure why I am going on about this as it rather feels like beating a dead horse at this point but I guess Im just saying "Ya what DennasMom said" but with a lot more words. :D

    And ya also this petition wasn't geographically relevant to me either. I don't know if I would or would not have signed it. I rarely sign petitions and only if I have thoroughly read and researched them. Too often there is convoluted language and hidden agendas beyond what they claim to be about so I am wary of just signing without doing my own homework and that said I kind of have a lot on my plate right now what with working full time, trying to get my sort of newly moved into house put together, helping my husband find a new job, growing a human inside of me and trying to get the house and our lives ready for said new human. Lots and lots on my plate and like 25% of the energy to put towards the lots and lots of stuff. Who knew that growing a human was such hard work and so taxxing. It really really is. Puppies are so much easier.

    So idk I guess I'll just end saying I really don't understand why this rolled into such a "thing" or was at all controversial. Different things work with different dogs and different things work for different people and we all have different experiences so obviously we are all going to have different opinions. Shrugs. It seems like it could have stayed civilized and intellectual to me. But what do I know? I'm growing a human over here and apparently that literally does effect your brain chemistry and pregnancy brain is actually a scientifically proven thing that can last up until two years after the birth of the baby so I'm not exactly firing at 100% over here. Still I do believe that this forum has always functioned at a level of kindness and mutual respect that was a nice bright spot in what is all to often a mean and angry interwebs.
    Bailey's Mom likes this.
  11. marke

    marke Well-Known Member

    i'm sure any ban on anything is never about responsible peoples use , it's about irresponsible folks misuse …….. when it comes to training dogs , it's unregulated , anybody can claim to be a dog trainer , there is no shortage of blatantly unqualified dog trainers …….. short of banning them , which can't be done , i'd guess you shoot for the more harmful "tools" they use ………. negative consequences are the most powerful behavior modifier there is , electricity and pain being the strongest , used incorrectly they can be the most damaging , permanently damaging …… plenty of folks use negative corrections out of frustration , administering pain out of personal frustration is abuse …….…. a large portion of professional dog trainers are unqualified , I see some dog trainers videos this guy post that he tells me are respectable dog trainers , personally it leaves me shaking my head more times than not …….. from what I've seen this is a typical guy that wants to teach his dog to be a protection dog , can't recognize that the folks videos he's posting are either being deceitful , or these guys are completely clueless ……. most non-traditional breed dogs are unsuitable to be trained to bite , most should be trained not to bite ……. I have no problem getting a dogs attention with nothing but a harness and a leash ………. I can use my voice , touch them , I can pop the harness with the leash , I can slap them on the ass by popping the leash , worst case scenario remove them from the situation , get some distance until they're non-reactive …….

    here's a guy explaining which dogs shouldn't be taught to bite and why ……… i'm pretty certain this steve guys dog fits this category , more dogs do than don't …….. it's pretty simple to teach unsuitable dogs to bite , I've seen it done countless times , by very inept trainers ……. this guy actually admits to having done it before he knew better ……. I've known folks who will never know better …….

    glen and Bailey's Mom like this.
  12. Bailey's Mom

    Bailey's Mom Super Moderator Staff Member

    I believe the "culling" was in response to a country on near starvation level food constraints due to the war. Not a war far away, one that could be "ignored", but one that was raining bombs down on its people. The War Effort brought about a terrible response to the reality of having to feed large dogs, ie., English Mastiffs, and few members of society could avoid the cost of feeding and keeping their kennels...oh, maybe a few Lords, Earls, etc., but not the common man/woman who was struggling along on a couple of eggs a week, almost no milk or cheese and smaller than normal portions of meats...all meats. So, not "likely a test" situation, but a result of the actions of the Third Reich, and a country pulling together, DESPERATELY, to preserve itself FIRST.
    glen likes this.
  13. Bailey's Mom

    Bailey's Mom Super Moderator Staff Member

    Maybe meaningless to YOU, but those following this thread are not YOURS to vote their interest. I vote that her position is Valid and I believe, if you read what has been written, you'll see that others are VOTING, their positions in opposition to Yours.
    glen likes this.
  14. Bailey's Mom

    Bailey's Mom Super Moderator Staff Member

    It "taking the Piss" means, being aggravated enough to tell you what they feel you are wrong about. Get It, Got It, Good.
    glen likes this.

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