Barf Diet Disaster, do I need to supplement? or go to Kibble?

[davidtq]

I believe if he had a vitamin d deficiency you would see it in all his joints and bones , not just a lack of acetabulum depth ...... give him fish oil , it should at worst be harmless ...... i'd find him a quality kibble and start with the least amount for his age and weight , and never look at the recommended amount again , just look at the dog ...... you talked about wolf pups , wild dogs are almost never dysplastic , and usually the ones that survive to adulthood have had to survive starvation at some point in their growth ....... I had a dog that weighed 150-160lbs as an adult , she had a problem as a pup and became anorexic , the vet and myself thought she may starve to death , she lived to almost 9 , died from cancer , she was orthopedically perfect , i'd guess she would have ofa'ed good or excellent .......

Thats why I started the topic as mentioned in the first post all the bones are showing thin walls, if it was just the sockets I would be a little less concerned, as you and others say the hip diagnosis isnt necesarily the be all and end all, but all his leg joints were x-rayed and the overall picture is one of thin walled bones caused by insufficient calcium content, which could be low calcium intake, but would also be classic rickets from lack of Vitamin D. Either one is my fault. But having looked into it, I cant see anyway he would have been getting sufficient Vit D on his raw diet . Calcium he was certainly getting some of.

Arden Grange is a brand in the same sort of price bracket as royal canin, have a pretty website http://www.ardengrange.com/index.asp claim to be made of all the best ingredients etc etc just like everyone else. Some users report less tendancy to put on weight and smaller poop on AG vs Royal Canin, I dont doubt other users would report the reverse. We've got a big sack in will see how it works.

I think its a shame the dog REALLY enjoyed real food, actually working on the food instead of inhaling it, and produced really nice firm poop.

 

[marke]

the pics of the pup certainly doesn't outwardly look like a dog with rickets , or any other deficiency caused condition ....... i'm not positive on this , but I believe a deficiency , or over supplementation usually has the greatest affect on the long bones ???? was the vet that diagnosed the problem an orthopedic specialist ? I assume by thin walled he is referring to density ? did the vet give you the x-ray , i'd like to see one ......... regardless , good luck to that pup , he is a great looking pup .....doe his hips look like this ?

 

[NYDDB]

It looks like a great way to add in vitamin D into a raw/cooked diet would be to supplement with cod liver oil--or add in some oily fish. Wouldn't that solve your issue? The omega 3's are an added bonus...

 

[davidtq]

the pics of the pup certainly doesn't outwardly look like a dog with rickets , or any other deficiency caused condition ....... i'm not positive on this , but I believe a deficiency , or over supplementation usually has the greatest affect on the long bones ???? was the vet that diagnosed the problem an orthopedic specialist ? I assume by thin walled he is referring to density ? did the vet give you the x-ray , i'd like to see one ......... regardless , good luck to that pup , he is a great looking pup .....doe his hips look like this ?

I havent been given a copy of the xray but will see if I can get one emailed to me by the vets. From memory because I was looking for the socket shape this is more what it looked like :- I couldnt see any trace of a spur above the femurs! I couldnt see what was preventing the femur from moving forwards at all. But will see if I can get a copy of the x-rays. I dont believe he was an orthopedic specialist, at least he wasnt intoduced as anything other than "the vet".



I seem to remember him mentioning something about some bowing to the front legs and "soft bones" and some slight damage to growth plates as well that he thought would most likelly heal fine. Will see if we can get the x-rays and see what he was talking about. He mentioned the thin walls he seemed to be pointing to the brighter white outline around the edge of the bones? That might have just been what I thought he was pointing at as it would be waht made most sense to me. He seemed to think it was sign of insufficient calcium in the bones.

 

[davidtq]

It looks like a great way to add in vitamin D into a raw/cooked diet would be to supplement with cod liver oil--or add in some oily fish. Wouldn't that solve your issue? The omega 3's are an added bonus...

It would, IF and only IF Im correct on it being a Vitamin D problem, Im now 99% certain I could duplicate the Vit D and calcium levels of a Dry diet with ease, I also know the maximum safe doses and could be well under that for definite. but Im not sure about the risks without confirming the theory that there is a deficiency in one of both areas. Getting things wrong could well make things worse. Might well try a professional prepared \ balanced raw diet at some point. Theres a few popular names over here that seem to be doing things very professionally.

 

[BAMCB]

I have no expertise to offer but can speak of my experience. Sonny started raw at 10(?) weeks and at 12 showed a large "bump" at his elbows. No formal diagnosis and no X rays but was told it could be a deficiency of balanced supplements and was told to switch back to a kibble diet. I did, for a day or two. After a LOT of research and discussion I decided to go back to raw. I did supplement 50% of his daily feeds with a commercial mix of whole ground prey and balanced the other 50% myself for the next 6 weeks until I felt confident in myself doing it 100%. He is 7 months now and doing great! Though he still has that "bump" it has reduced. I know my experience is not quite the same, I am confident we felt the same guilt and self doubt. I know I made the right choice for us and I'm sure you will also do what's right for you. Just the fact you are doing so much research and questioning shows your love and commitment to doing just that.