BB owner feeling lost and unsure - advice desperately needed on how to proceed

[maedae]

Hank is now 15 months. He is a 65kg BB and has not been castrated (yet - we thought about studding him out). We are two 30 somethings with a 6 month old baby living in the suburbs. We love Hank to pieces but he has changed so much in the last few months that we are becoming more and more unsure of him. We are afraid that we are not what Hank needs and worried that we are creating a monster despite our best efforts. There is starting to be very little "good" about owning him. We don't want to give up but we are having trouble seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I guess I am just hoping that someone out there can help to make the situation better or help us figure out if we should find Hank a new home.

Some background:
Hank gets 3 walks a day. 2 are longer (30 min +) and the third is about 10/15 min. Then a final pee/poo before bed. A couple times a week I take him to the dog park when it is empty and throw the ball around. We walk him using a gentle leader head harness (which he dislikes) and do not allow him to walk in front or to pull. At home we play search games with candy or toys to entertain him if the weather is terrible or he seems restless. We have thought about starting agility, or getting him a backpack or even try going running with him. Not sure if any of those are good ideas.

He is crate trained but sleeps in our bedroom, on the floor in his own bed. He is not allowed on the sofa or in any human beds. He knows all the basic commands and will perform them when food is involved. He is very stubborn and it can be impossible sometimes to get through to him. He is not food aggressive unless it involves very high value treats like meaty bones. So we have stopped giving him those.He grew up in the middle of the city and we moved out to the suburbs about 7 months ago. He has been exposed to all sorts of sounds and people and animals while living in the city. We have also been to puppy training courses to work on commands and to socialize him. But since the baby has come, we don't spend as much time with training as we should. He still gets his walks and we try as much as we can to be the pack leaders but obviously we are failing.

The problems:
For the past 4 months or so, if not on his gentle leader, Hank will go for other dogs. Lunge and bark and want to run for them. I am not sure if he wants to hurt the dog or what. It seems to be escalating. He has broken our wire fence running out after the neighbor's dog (he is never outside alone, this is with us outside with him). I had to pull him off the old man. He was going for the dog, but we worry one day it won't be the case. Luckily no one was hurt this time.

We used to be able to go to the dogpark and Hank was great. Now, he tries to dominate all the other dogs and even got in a fight recently. So no more dog park. We can't let him off leash ever, not even in our own backyard now (fixing the fence is not financially possible for us just now). He barks if anyone comes to the door or is outside the house. He won't stop until he feels like it. Even if he is in his crate with a blanket over him. We haven't found a way to stop him.

Until recently I would have said he was good with children, but he has started showing signs of dominance towards children visiting us. Thank god nothing has happened yet but at this rate, he will have to stay in his crate when we have visitors. Not to mention that we have a 6 month old baby. He is very respectful to her, but I am starting to become worried. Of course, she is never alone with him.

Basically our calm, lazy buddy has turned into a big, aggressive, protective beast that we can't trust. We need to find a way to stop this train wreck.

My questions:
Are his problems made worse by his age (the teenage years?)
Will he mellow or is this how he will be?
Do you think he is getting enough exercise? Or the right kind of exercise?
Will castrating him make a big difference in his behavior or aggression? Or will it create new problems?How important is it to have a big yard to run around in?
All things considered, along with the fact that we are not able to afford a new fence or a dog run or anything more than just food, poop bags, shots, etc for him just now (since I am at home with the baby)- are we able to give this dog what he needs?
If we do need to find a new home for him, how do we do that?
We don't want him going to the wrong type of person.
Is there any hope? Should we find a new home for him or will he be our buddy again some day?

I really appreciate any help. I feel so guilty and stupid. We went into this with all the best intentions. We did our homework and have tried from day one to be the pack leaders. Is this just a phase or are we complete failures?

 

[Bailey's Mom]

Wow, you sound like loving and caring pet parents, and you have done a lot of the best work to create a stable, happy dog. You are right about the teenage years, it causes them to act out, and the hormones will make him testy with displays of dominance. Generally speaking it's suggested here on the Forum to not neuter until 18-24 months. Large dogs need to grow into their bones.

I'm supposing if you can't afford to fix the fence that additional training is out of the question. Dogs respond well to having jobs, so going to training is very pleasurable and may mature him faster.

Does he have any socialization with other animals? I know it's hard with a baby in hand, so having pet play dates may be impossible at your house, but do you have other friends with large dogs who would invite your dog over for play dates? I think the frustration that comes from never getting to play/sniff/socialize with other animals is tough on any dog. They are born into such large litters usually, I believe it's hard to be alone with no other dog friends.

Sorry this isn't more helpful. We've gone through this with the family Rotti, but she was an abused rescue and I don't think we're ever going to get her to stop lunging and barking. We've considered a shock collar for walks, it's just too hard to control her when she sees other animals. Funny thing is, if introduced calmly, she makes friends quickly. It's just frustration and the scarring from her first six months of life. It's hard to break the pattern, and with her, crating doesn't help, it exaserbates the situation. Poor thing was locked in a small cage, never walked, never socialized and spayed at six months. It was the perfect storm to create an anti-social dog.

I hope some of the BB owners jump on, this is a great place to come for help. Good Luck.

 

[Rugers-Kris]

I think you mostly answered your own question when you said "But since the baby has come, we don't spend as much time with training as we should." but there are some other obvious factors that I see. Your puppy is maturing and "trying" you to see what he can get away with so more training is required in a time that you are admittedly doing less. Also, he is at the right age to be coming into his temperament as well. You have a new baby and that is a big change for him and if he has gotten less attention, he may be acting out because of it. He NEEDS exercise...NEEDS it. A few walks aren't going to wear him out and a bored dog can be a bad dog. I have a 3 year old Male English Mastiff and a nearly 2 year old male Great Dane (neither one are neutered) and I exercise them daily. You have a strong and active breed and have to find a way to satisfy his energy. No yard to run around in is obviously making the problem worse and that probably has a lot to do with his sudden behavior during walks. Sounds to me he has a lot of energy and is getting bored and showing his ass. Another really big thing is your frustration and fear. They can sense it and it makes things just that much worse. If you take him for a walk and he lunges and then the next time you are taking him for a walk, you are nervous about it, it will amplify the behavior.

I know it is difficult not to be a little nervous after they show some unwanted behavior but if you can't control that, you won't be able to control him. I would say that fixing the fence is an absolute necessity so that he can have some free roam with you outside with him and then you will need to play hard with fetch, catch, a flirt pole (It is a godsend) or something that truly exhausts him and his behavior will get better and that should help your confidence which in turn will continue to help his behavior.

Nothing to feel stupid about. Each dog is different and their needs are unique. There is no doubt that he has realized that you don't know what to do about his new behaviors and they will only get worse until you handle it. Barking until he feels like stopping is trainable. Teach him a command to stop, work with him constantly, praise and treat when he does it ......all of the things take time and a lot of effort but none of them are impossible to fix.

As to your question "Are we able to give him what he needs?"...Only you can answer that. Be completely honest with yourself as to what it will take to regain control and keep him happy and if not, look for a suitable home for him.

There are tons of breed specific rescues out there or you could find him an appropriate home. Please keep in mind that if you decide to re-home him to someone, they should have experience, time and the resources to handle him. Be very careful. I am sorry that you find yourself in this position and I hope for the best for both your family and your pup.

Please keep us updated.

 

[maedae]

He was actually a single puppy. The other puppies didn't make it unfortunately. The breeder did what they could to give him social time with the other BB's but there were no other puppies at that time. We have tried to find a dog friend for him but it has been difficult. But we will keep trying. That is a good idea to have a play date for him.


What kind of walk schedule do you think would be enough to wear him out? Or is it more that he needs the rough playing and running to be worn out?


The gentle leader collar has actually given us both more confidence when walking him. He feels it for sure and it has made a difference.


Does anyone have experience with castration? Did it change the dog's temperament? Did it keep other dogs from being aggressive towards your dog?


Today I really worked to wear him out. Long morning walk, running and chasing balls in the afternoon in the fenced in dog area, and some training in the evening. I thought I had succeeded but he as I type this he is destroying his bed.

 

[DDSK]

I don't believe castration will help, it didn't work for my pointers, they didn't change their behavior one bit.

 

[Brookie]

It honestly sounds like he is just bored.. I also agree that you sound like you are a responsible dog owner and I'm glad you're trying so hard to fix this!
As far as walking goes, with our nearly 2 year old EM, if he doesn't have 3 walks a day, around 1-1.5 hours a piece, he is completely restless while we're home and tends to start digging his nose in stuff. I've found that search games work WONDERFUL! I've gone from hiding a small treat to hiding Kong toys with frozen peanut butter in them and then he has truly work at it to get everything out! Do you happen to have stairs? We usually run him up and down our stairs before bed, a couple hours after eating, so he wears himself out that way or if you have a laser pointer, maybe he would chase it? I think you're doing all of the right things.. Best of luck and I hope it works out for you all!!


Also, I think you're extremely smart for not leaving your 6 month old around him by herself. I also have a 6 month old and while I completely trust my pup, I would absolutely never leave him alone with my EM, simply because he isn't fully aware of his size or power yet.

 

[Smokeycat]

Self control training is also great for tiring a dog out. Things such as stay, wait and leave it. Start short and work him up to longer periods.

 

[Max's mom]

No big dogs running up and down stairs. You're asking for terrible injury sooner or later. Please...no stairs as fun.

 

[DennasMom]

Laser play is fun and HILARIOUS to watch... but that (and the flirt pole, to be honest) also scare me, by inviting hard starts/stops and corners...
Laser lights are also somehow addictive. We've used one a few times with Denna, and she will get obsessed with it... looking for it anytime we're in the room, thinking it will pop out from under a cushion somewhere. It's fun, I agree, and a good work out - but it might just wind a dog UP instead of wearing them out - depending on the dog.

I would work more on impulse control games and scent work, personally - more mental exercise.

How does Hank do following the stroller?
I would try and give him the "job" of following the stroller when you're out on walks - especially if you can go as a whole family, so one person to push the stroller and a second to control the dog. Make it a very regimented walk. Keep him in a heel. Stop at all cross walks. Practice sit & wait at stop lights (or just randomly, just because). Use lots of treats for good behavior if he works well for treats.

I would also try to find time for one-on-one work with him, even if it's just once a week... leave your spouse home with the baby, and take him to a new and different place to explore. I like to get some off-leash time in on walks - so an abandoned lot, open park, or trail... somewhere zoomies and sprints are available to burn off some excess energy (and practice good recalls).

Not all dogs NEED other dogs for social time - some of the mastiff breeds get a bit protective and don't want to socialize with other dogs anymore - which might be part of what you're seeing, too. But, those then need more home pack time, instead. If he still does enjoy the company of "nice" dogs... a well supervised daycare might give him what he needs and burn some energy, too.

Your Questions:

* Are his problems made worse by his age (the teenage years?) - probably! but that doesn't mean your rules should change. Enforce them consistently and reward him for good behavior, just like you did in the beginning.

* Will he mellow or is this how he will be? - he'll take his cues from you. I would expect he'll mellow, but he'll need your guidance, training and leadership to help him know that 'mellow' is what you want him to be.

* Do you think he is getting enough exercise? Or the right kind of exercise? - he seems to be showing you (by destroying things) that he needs something else. It might not be physical exercise... mental exercise is just as important, and can also wear a dog out just as completely.

* Will castrating him make a big difference in his behavior or aggression? Or will it create new problems? I wouldn't think it would cause NEW problems, but I wouldn't expect a big difference in his behavior, either.

* How important is it to have a big yard to run around in? Not very, in my opinion. We have a small yard (about 20' x 90'). Big enough for zoomies, but they don't go very far. I think it's more important to share the Big Wide World with your dog - get out of the yard at least once a week and explore some new places, and more often during the week to 'check in' on all the neighborhood 'bulletin boards' (i.e. mark some bushes).

* All things considered - are we able to give this dog what he needs? What he needs is YOU. Love, attention, RULES, guidance and then the rest (food, shelter, etc.)

* If we do need to find a new home for him, how do we do that? A breed specific rescue is the best one to contact for help.

* Is there any hope? There is ALWAYS HOPE! Visualize how you want him to act... and then put steps in motion to make it happen. If you want him to curl up on his bed in the evenings and relax while you play with the baby... stuff a kong really well and give him that to keep him busy - if he goes to leave his bed, tell him 'no', and return him to the bed, put him in a 'stay' if you have to, but make it a 'house rule'. (your house, your rules). Once he knows the routine - and knows it will be enforced - he should relax into the new normal... eventually.

A trainer I follow is offering his dog training "inner circle" for $1 for the first month... if you have time to read a bunch of articles and watch a bunch of youtube videos, he might have some help for you. His current focus is on understanding that "negative consequences" are required for Stopping Unwanted Behaviors, so don't be afraid to tell your dog "NO!" and let him know what you don't want - just be sure when he's doing things you like, that you reward him well, so he knows what he SHOULD be doing, too.

Did I ramble on long enough???
Yikes!
... as always - these are just my personal, non-professional opinions and recommendations... it's your dog and your family, so you have to do what's best for your own situation.

Good luck! Please keep us posted on how things go!

 

[scorning]

I'm not looking forward to the "teen" years with my dane, but think that most behaviors can be managed with training and exercise.

When you take your walks, are they mostly slow loose leash walks, or do you enforce a heel with lots of transitions, sit/down stays, comes, etc? My dogs could walk for hours and not get tired, but heeling and doing obedience work for 45 minutes and they are both passed out as soon as we get home. My older dog is dog reactive, so the only way we can keep her under control around other dogs is to enforce a strict heel when we see one. It really teaches your dog to focus on you, and prevents that reactive drive from building up. We use prong collars on both our dogs, which I think can be great tools for difficult dogs as long as you are properly trained on how to use one.

For my more energetic dog, we also do nose work at home. We've moved on from just hiding food for her to find to transitioning to scent detection, which seems to tire her out even more. We also do a lot of trick and clicker training with her, we just check dog training books out from the library for those things and practice at home.

 

[karennj]

What kind of walk schedule do you think would be enough to wear him out? Or is it more that he needs the rough playing and running to be worn out?

Walking a couple times a day is not enough exercise. Dogs need to run. My trainer has me giving Bear a good run 2 times a day. Basically I work to make sure he panting/tongue hanging out of his mouth twice a day. I usually do either one good hike (he runs free in the woods nearby) or the flirt pole a couple times a day. I also make sure he has mental exercise. Bear is 15 months and if he does not get enough physical/mental stimulation I want to kill him. He barks nonstop, gets into things, etc.

 

[maedae]

These are all great suggestions!

I will look into a flirt pole. Since the fence is broken, we would have to have him on a long lead outside. I worry a bit about him hurting himself but maybe it would be ok? There is no way he can play inside. The floors are all hardwood and tile so slippery. Plus he is just too big.

He does well following the stroller. He never walks in front of it, always to the side and slightly behind the front wheel. And to answer the question about our walks. He walks on a short leash (no tension unless to correct him) at my side. I have started doing some random stops and starts, changing direction - making him sit and wait, those kind of things while out on the walk. It has taken him some time to get used to it but I feel like I have his attention much more.

Do you keep your dogs at your side or do they need to walk behind you? He is just inline with me. His head is a bit in front but his legs are in line with mine. Is that ok or should I make him walk a bit more behind?

I would love to find a place where he could be off leash for a bit. I haven't found a place yet where I am sure there will be no other dogs or traffic. I want to work a bit more on his recall command before I let him off his leash again. I can't trust that he will come when called 100% now.

I will check out the online resources mentioned for sure. Good reading while the baby is sleeping.

It feels really good to hear that there is hope for Hank. I think it will be so good for our daughter to grow up with a dog and he really is a beautiful boy.

I think our walk this morning was a success

 

[angelbears]

I have found that mental exercises wears out a dog as much as any physical exercise. Hide and seek is a favorite of ours.

 

[Brookie]

No *stairs*? Our vet was actually the one that suggested it!

 

[season]

Self control training is also great for tiring a dog out. Things such as stay, wait and leave it. Start short and work him up to longer periods.

Great point. Duration work works wonders for my dog. Not all exercise is physical. Also a flirt pole is a great way to tire out a dog mentally and physically in a short period of time.

There are so many things that could be going wrong with how you are "leading" your dog. It's hard to pin point unless it's seen.

 

[season]

I compare it to watching episodes of Cesar 911. He knows the people asking for his help have problems. He asks them what's going on and they explain. Usually they think they are doing what any good dog owner should be doing and can't figure out what's wrong with their dog. Then he goes to see the dog and how it behaves in it's natural environment and can see in a couple minutes what's wrong. And it usually isn't the dog. It's the owners. I think u get that. I think you are willing to change what you're doing and step your game up....but its hard to see what you're not doing. It could be simple leadership things that are missing. Those little things turn into bigger things if left unchecked.

 

[cj-sharpy]

Take him fro a walk, a real long one, not till you are tired but until he is knackered. You'll know cos he will slow down and become much less likely to pull. then get him hone and reassess. if he seems like a better dog then bingo, hes full og energy and bored.
As said excercise can be mental too, try a kong to get his brain working, or try games of search or some scent work to gie him a job.
Set goals for you and boundies for him. He WILL walk calmly this time, I WILL be able to have him stop when hes aroused.
I'm no expert but these are the things that have worked for me, and i'm dealing with a dog that was trained for aggression.

 

[Edward B.]

It might sound a little too much but I believe that you don*t have anymore time with the little baby to be strong enough for your dog and you are about to lose control. We all love our dogs specially the period when they are sweet puppies. It come a time when you should show more authority (the Alfa male/female in the house) to your puppy.
I believe as well that you won*t do much with that Gentle Leader Collar. At his age and size you are just making your life harder with that GENTLE COLLAR. Gentle collar is for young pups training. I saw dogs with gentle leader collar but not Mastiffs .One day he will snap his mouth out from that collar and might cost you more than a proper collar for his age and force.
I really understand you and your love for your big boy and please do not understand me wrong.
This what I will do instead of you to correct my dog:
- Prong Collar (or Pinch Collar) in the beginning until you feel comfortable. Than you can change to Choke Collar.
- Muzzle
- NOTHING IS FOR FREE! Absolutely nothing, treats or other thinks like toys, or to allow him to go where he wants. Restrict his area of feeling comfortable until he will realise that he needs to gain that by doing what the Alfa said.
I know, but you might save a lot of money and time with the “tools” above mentioned.
From your story I feel that he*s in control of the house and everybody obey and do what the sweaty dog want. RONG! It will be hard but not impossible, you need to be strong in your commands and time. If he still listen to your commands you will manage.
At least use this trick in order to secure the Gentle Collar.

I don*t crate my Cane Corso (9 months and 46 kg) but I crate him when he step out of his square as punishment. I use all the above mentioned in order to reduce the problems when he will have that “click” with regards to comportment, attitude, temperament and other issues are coming with the age when they are juniors.
YES! I believe that alternatives are plenty with regards to education, training, temperament but probably you don*t have that much time as you had before the baby come.
Just don*t give up on your dog and relocate him somewhere else. BB is a nice breed.
Don*t wait until you arrive to a point as the 8 months Cane Corso below (video), 2nd chance.
[video=youtube;8cmQa6IpIyM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cmQa6IpIyM[/video]
I am aware that probably nobody agree with my suggestion and I apologise to you and everybody on this topic with the way I think about this.

 

[Edward B.]

"At least use this trick in order to secure the Gentle Collar"

Use a standard leash attached to the standard collar (leather in the photo, you can use any type you want)

 

[irina]

I would say mental exercise as well if you don't have a ton of space. Playing inside is possible. We also have slippery floors and 120lbs of dog, but he loves to play tug inside and fetch with us rolling the ball on the floor. If he is getting into fights and being dominant with other dogs, play dates might not be a good idea, unless it is a very good friend that is not going to get upset if your dog misbehaves. Ours is doing the same thing right now, so no dog socializing for him for the near future.