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Bone And Food Values For Raw Feeding Dogs

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
One of the barriers to feeding dogs raw food is the misleading notion that balancing and creating canine diets is an exact science that must be performed in the laboratory. This couldn't be further from the truth! Raw feeding has a few guidelines that must be followed and the most important one is balancing the minerals calcium and phosphorus in the diet.

Meat is very high in phosphorus. The main function of phosphorus is in the formation of bones and teeth. It plays an important role in the body's utilization of carbohydrates and fats and in the synthesis of protein for the growth, maintenance, and repair of cells and tissues. It is also crucial for the production of ATP, a molecule the body uses to store energy. Phosphorus works with the B vitamins. It also assists in the contraction of muscles, in the functioning of kidneys, in maintaining the regularity of the heartbeat, and in nerve conduction.

Bone is high in calcium. In addition to its widely known role in bone structure, calcium is used to help control muscle and nerve function, as well as to manage acid/base balance in the blood stream.

Dogs need a balance between the amount of phosphorus and calcium they get in their daily diets. In dogs, the [noparse]calcium:phosphorus[/noparse] ratio should be about 1.2 to 1.5:1 although a range of 1:1 to 2.5: 1 is sufficient. That means that dogs should consume a little more calcium than they do phosphorus.

According to the Merck Veterinary Manual, less phosphorus is absorbed at the higher ratios, so an appropriate balance of these two minerals is necessary. Also, insufficient supplies of calcium or excess phosphorus decrease calcium absorption and result in irritability, hyperesthesia, and loss of muscle tone with temporary or permanent paralysis associated with nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism. Skeletal demineralization, particularly of the pelvis and vertebral bodies, develops with calcium deficiency.

Excess intakes of calcium are more problematic for growing large and giant breed dogs. Too much calcium causes more severe signs of osteochondrosis and decreased skeletal remodeling in young, rapidly growing large breed dogs than in dogs fed diets with lower dietary calcium.

Balancing The Calcium:phosphorus Ratio

It might seem daunting for dog owners to calculate the [noparse]calcium:phosphorus[/noparse] ratio in a home prepared raw diet but it's really not that complicated. Bones are a safe source of dietary calcium and if dogs consume enough of them, the diet will be balanced without a lot of difficult calculation.

Chemist Mogen Eliasen explains. "In the food we feed, we might have a deficiency of calcium. Let's say that the food contains only half the calcium it should (50 milligrams instead of 100 milligrams), but is okay as far as phosphorous goes. We are thus out of balance – our 1:1 ratio is only 0.5:1 – which is critical.

"But, let's say that we now feed 10 grams of raw bone. This will give us a total supplement of 1,000 milligrams of Calcium and 1,000 milligrams of Phosphorous. Add to this what we feed through the other sources of food. This brings the Calcium intake up to a total of 1,050 milligrams, and the Phosphorous to a total of 1,100 milligrams.

"Our overall balance is now no longer 0.5:1, but (1050/1100):1 = 0.95:1. We are only 5% "off". But 5% is within the natural variation anyway, so it won't matter… (Also: most standard chemical analyses do not give a more precise result anyway: +/-5% is pretty accurate for such an analysis…)

"If you feed 100 grams of bone instead, you will see the ratio go to 0.995:1 - less than 0.5% off the mark."

Overall, balancing calcium and phosphorus isn't all that difficult, as long as dogs receive plenty of bone. In general, any bone content over 10% is plenty although you shouldn't exceed 25% because dogs need other nutrients too.
Bone Content In Raw Foods

When sourcing bones for your dog's diet, it's a good idea to know the approximate amount of bone in commonly sourced foods. Here is a quick guide to help you keep your dog's bone content in the right range; between 10% and 25%.

Chicken

  • Whole chicken (not including the head and feet): 25% bone
  • Leg quarter: 30%
  • Split breast: 20%
  • Thigh: 15%
  • Drumstick: 30%
  • Wing: 45%
  • Neck: 36%
  • Back: 45%
Turkey

  • Whole turkey: 21%
  • Thigh: 21%
  • Drumstick: 20%
  • Wing: 37%
  • Neck: 42%
  • Back: 41%
Pork

  • Feet: 30%
  • Tails: 30%
  • Ribs: 30%
Beef

  • Ribs: 52%
Rabbit

  • Whole rabbit (fur and all): 10%
  • Whole (dressed): 25-30%

The bone content values in this list are an approximate but that's really all you need to provide your dog with a safe and healthy raw diet. Avoid grocery store meats as they can be treated with bleach or enhanced with salt. You should also feed bones that are appropriate for the size of your dog. Avoid pieces that could present a choking hazard .
 

Sadies Mom

Well-Known Member
Re: Article on bone calcium/phos content for raw feeders

Thanks!!! I was actually going to do research on bone content, so this helps a lot!!!!
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Re: Article on bone calcium/phos content for raw feeders

Welcome! Its handy to have a starting point, and its one that every one asks for, so here it is lol. But like I said, pull apart a few drumsticks or thighs on your own and see what your locally purchased meat % are too.
 

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
Re: Article on bone calcium/phos content for raw feeders

I watch Titan's poop to determine if I'm giving him too much bone. Too chalky, back down on bone. Titan has decided he no longer wants to eat chicken. He now eats pork steaks with the bone in in the morning with beef livers. He eats hamburger with chix feet in the evening. He's so spoiled! The guy at Kroger said Titan eats better than he does. *winking*
 

LauraR

Well-Known Member
Re: Article on bone calcium/phos content for raw feeders

It's funny that you mentioned watching his poo, because that is what our new vet suggested. I told her we wanted to go raw when we get our EM and she asked if we would be okay with bringing in fecal samples twice a week for the first month so she could analyze it to make sure his/her diet was giving her everything he/she needed and if it wasn't, she would help us modify it(more bone or organs) to his/her needs.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Re: Article on bone calcium/phos content for raw feeders

I'd suggest teh 2nd month rather than the first, for a new raw feeder the first month is all adjustment, and as a result his poop is going to be fairly random. But cool on the vet lol.
 

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
Re: Article on bone calcium/phos content for raw feeders

LauraR, as a mastiff mommy, it will become part of your day examining your dog's poop. Titan's poop is my regulator how on much bone to feed him. Not sure I would pay a vet to tell him how bone/organ meat to feed Titan. As long as you follow the 80/10/10 rule, you're should be good to go.

Agree with Ruth, hold off organ meat until at least 2nd month. Give pup's digestive system time to get used to raw diet.
 

LauraR

Well-Known Member
Re: Article on bone calcium/phos content for raw feeders

I see your point. Besides, it is something that is a routine part of her checkups, so I might just go with that.
And examining the poo is something I'm already used to, lol! In addition to his Asperger's, Alex(my oldest) also has intestinal issues and I have to look at his poo every time he goes to the bathroom to make sure they aren't grey or tarry. It is safe to say that I am immune to the poo lol!
 

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
Re: Article on bone calcium/phos content for raw feeders

@LauraR, so you have poop control under control. hehehehehe
 

angelbears

Well-Known Member
Re: Article on bone calcium/phos content for raw feeders

LauraR, may I ask what the vet will be checking the poop for? I understand parasites and bacteria but for nutritional content. I would think a blood panel would be the way to go. Just curious.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Re: Article on bone calcium/phos content for raw feeders

AB's post reminded me....the yahoo group I'm part of, a fairly new member told their vet they'd switched to feeding raw, the vet insisted on doing a fecal, and it came back "FULL OF BACTERIA!!!!! OMG!!!!!" to which the entire group responded "*headdesk* so's your poo, thats why you wash your hands after going to the bathroom....."
 

angelbears

Well-Known Member
Re: Article on bone calcium/phos content for raw feeders

Yep, don't panic over the bacteria. That is normal. If your vet is going to charge for the stool examine I would want to know what she is looking for.
 

_unoriginal

Member
I have a question...

I've been raw feeding for just over 2.5 years. It may seem a little late in the game but I'm currently trying to understand more of the science behind the Ca:p ratio.

If 10% is the guide and I shouldn't go over 25%, how bad is it that I do? My male requires a lot of bone to maintain a firm poo. Please note that he's not a mastiff, he is about 60 lbs and just turned 10 years old this month.

He's very healthy and active. The vet always compliments him. I get a blood panel done annually to check for issues. So far, he's as healthy as he can be, as far as I know. So I'm just wondering if I'm accidentally causing issues for him.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
How much bone are you giving him?

IN GENERAL, a mature dog is grown and total calcium numbers aren't a huge issue, but my concern is that if you're giving him THAT MUCH bone, he's not getting enough of something else.
 

_unoriginal

Member
He gets a chicken quarter or a couple legs per meal, plus whatever other protein we're working through. This week it's been beef heart. We do organs on the weekends where I have more time to take him out for the loose stool that usually follows.

There was a while there where we could do heavy bone (like a pork neck) one day and completely boneless the following day. We started having some nausea issues which I blamed on the heavy amount of dense bone. This is why we switched to mostly chicken bones coupled with something else that's boneless.

You seem to have a really good handle on what's required. I wish I could feed more boneless but it just doesn't seem to be in the cards for us. :(
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Describe the nausua problems please.

When you feed him tomorrow please weigh out the portions for me? I don,t need you to de-bone it or anything, just give me the numbers off the scale, I can guestimate the bone from averages.
 

numbnub

Member
Hey.... im new here and new to mastiff and raw feeding.. we are starting with turkey necks about a lb and turkey hearts are about 14 to a lb so I feed my 5 yr old pit as of friday 1 neck and 14 hearts a day.. my 7 month neo/english mastiff mix 1 neck 28 hearts... each is split into 2 meals a day... so with that would that seem about the right track for first month then slowly add differnt protein in and organ meat in on the 3rd week mark but 1 at a time starting with organ meat? Then I also do about 1-2 tsp of synergy every meal
 

PippatheMastiff

Well-Known Member
That's a lot of organ meat. I was told to give more regular meat and only small amounts of organ meat because it's too rich


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