Confirmation showing questions

[ruthcatrin]

So, Apollo and I will be starting a "confirmation class" this coming week so that hopefully when we get to an actual show ring one or both of us will have a clue what we're supposed to be doing. This will be my first showing experience, we didn't get him to show, but his breeder asked us to consider it, and I'm willing to do some casual showing. Where we're located there's a BUNCH of All Breed Confirmation shows within 3hrs drive, and a ton more within a days drive, not to mention 3 or 4 every year the next town over from us, so its not like it would be a massive hardship to do some casual showing.

They DID just change the Tibetan Mastiff Breed standards, but after discussing with his breeder we're going to go ahead and give it a try anyway, after all, we don't plan to breed, so if they DO decide he's got major faults or even a DQ due to the new standard its not the same problem for us as it would be for some other folks. I was thinking of registering him with the UKC instead but they don't have any all breed confirmation shows local, the closest is 3+hrs away, which makes it difficult to get some easy experience without spending tons. I might still register him with them, but it would definetly cut back on our showing ability if I decided to totally switch.

So I was looking at the AKC's website for show schedules and noticed that the schedule for 2012 basically ends at September. I KNOW that there's shows held locally later in the year than that so is it just that those aren't finalized yet and thats why I'm not seeing them? It seems that I managed to miss 3 local shows already this year (one is being held this weekend), just by not getting moving fast enough. So I have choice between a 2hr plus drive to a show or waiting till the fall. Neither is the end of the world, Apollo travels well, but I was hoping for something local for our first show. Oh well.

Thats my only real question for the moment (show scheduling), but since I've started a thread anyone with showing experience want to toss out some advice (or anyone else have any questions?), preferably that stupid little stuff that ought to be obvious and never is?

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Sometimes shows later in the year aren't finalized as far as premium lists but most will have their dates up as show people tend to plan their schedule at the start of the year I would say it is entirely up to you on whether you drive or wait until the fall. Maybe go to a couple classes and see how he does before you make a decision as he might not be ready or you might want to work with him a bit before heading in the ring.

I would make sure you have the same collar you are going to show him in, we only use those collars when we show so they know when they are put on that we are about to put on a pretty show Also if he is a little higher energy you might want to take him for a light walk before just to take the edge off. Depending on how they run classes sometimes they can have you waiting a while and that can cause them to get a little devilish.

Main thing is have fun and he will have fun. Keep it that way and you will have a dog that always looks great as you both will be doing it because it is fun for the both of you

 

[ruthcatrin]

High energy? Yes and no, however he IS going to go nuts at the sight of all the dogs and people. In a good way, not aggressive, but no matter how much I take him everywhere his reaction to every new person or dog is that they're his new best friend. Gonna go to the class a bit early so we can walk around and hopefully get over the worst of the inital reaction. I signed us up for the whole 8 weeks so hopefully we'll get lots of practice.

I did pick up a show collar an lead to work with him. Been working on 'stand' and he never was taught traditional heal-sit so thats not an issue.

And yes, if I'm not having fun this isn't going to work!

 

[awestruckgsd]

Hi there showing is alot of fun I have shown for years all of my GSD's and now we are starting to show our Old English Mastiff...Is that a Tibetan Mastiff that you have there??? He looks gorgeous...We have been looking at possibly adding a Tibetan to our family in the next year can you give us any info on the breed??? We have just started researching the breed and want to be well informed before we make a decision... Thanks Judy

 

[ruby55]

Sunny, Magee & Bella have all retired from the ring for one reason or another, but Ruby is still showing. In fact we have a show in a couple of weeks. Ruby is also a social butterfly; she wants to say hello to any other dog she sees. But at the ring it's a different story. She sits quietly with whoever is handling her, and gets really happy when she steps in the ring. So your dog might get used to being "handled", and not get hyper at the show, especially if you only use that show collar & lead while working in class or in the ring.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Well, we had our first class last night and he did MUCH better than I was worried he would. The whole "stand in line while waiting my turn" thing got boring really quick, on two different occasions he flopped and showed his belly to everyone while laughing at me glaring at him. And he doesn't QUITE get the whole "stacking" thing yet (he'll just DO it when we practice at home, but not in the ring). But considering I didn't have a clue when I was trying to work him at home previous I think it went remarkably well. He was VERY distracted by the agility practice going on in the next ring, and there was a "pre-basic" adult obedience going on in the ring on the other side, and a bull terrier there WOULD NOT STOP BARKING, but then none of the dogs liked that.

Awestruck, yes, he's a Tibetan Mastiff, and the first thing you need to realize is that although the English is closer to the Tibetan, in a lot of ways, than the GSDs, you need to be aware that they do NOT react or handle much like most breeds your going to be familier with. For example, the complete and utter lack of food/treat/toy drive. Toys and treats are cool, and yummy, and if there's nothing better to do he'll respond quite nicely to them....till he doesn't feel like having treats and then I can literally wave pepperoni in front of his nose with no reaction. The other thing you need to be aware of up front is that these dogs CANNOT BE LET OFF LEASH in an unfenced area. Period. Yes there are exceptions to every rule, but me, and everyone I've talked to, agrees that these dogs consider "come" to be an optional command. For general breed information I recommend this site: http://www.tibetanmastiffinfo.com/ And I would be delighted to answer any questions I can (and if not refer you to someone who can).

You also need to be aware that the breed CLUB (ATMA) is not held in high regard at the moment among people who care for the breed, for a quick explination of why, go up to the General topic, and work your way backwards till you find the thread about the Proposed changes to the TM breed standard (the changes are now accepted and are the current standard with the AKC).

 

[Oak Hill Farm]

Awestruck, yes, he's a Tibetan Mastiff, and the first thing you need to realize is that although the English is closer to the Tibetan, in a lot of ways, than the GSDs, you need to be aware that they do NOT react or handle much like most breeds your going to be familier with. For example, the complete and utter lack of food/treat/toy drive. Toys and treats are cool, and yummy, and if there's nothing better to do he'll respond quite nicely to them....till he doesn't feel like having treats and then I can literally wave pepperoni in front of his nose with no reaction. The other thing you need to be aware of up front is that these dogs CANNOT BE LET OFF LEASH in an unfenced area. Period. Yes there are exceptions to every rule, but me, and everyone I've talked to, agrees that these dogs consider "come" to be an optional command. .

My CAS is the same way. You have to be creative and it makes training a challenge. I have gathered patience I never knew I had, what worked one day will not the next.

 

[ruthcatrin]

My CAS is the same way. You have to be creative and it makes training a challenge. I have gathered patience I never knew I had, what worked one day will not the next.

exactly. I love my primitive breed dogs, but they are most definetly NOT what the average dog owner is prepared to handle!

 

[awestruckgsd]

Thanks for all of the great information...I have had a few dogs over the years that are not motivated in any way making training rather difficult and that consider "come" to be an optional command so that is nothing new for me and we have worked through those issues...People have told me that the Tibetan is an aggressive protector how true does that hold or is that a myth??? Do they get along with other dogs and how are they as family companions as I have heard they are also very independent unlike the English who is very dependant on it's family??? I will definitely be reading the links you sent me...Judy

---------- Post added at 04:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 PM ----------

I almost forgot my husband and I have been involved with dogs for over 20 years now showing, breeding and even rescuing a couple of German Shepherds over the years so we have seen and dealt with quite a lot over the years...I know that we can deal with and train just about anything but we just want to make sure the breed is right for us...

 

[awestruckgsd]

I almost forgot my husband and I have been involved with dogs for over 20 years now showing, breeding and even rescuing a couple of German Shepherds over the years so we have seen and dealt with quite a lot over the years...I know that we can deal with and train just about anything but we just want to make sure the breed is right for us...

 

[ruthcatrin]

They can be HIGHLY aggressively protective. Properly socialized, with LOTS of ongoing work as the dog matures (which can take as long as 5yrs before the dog is considered to have reached full adulthood) they are generally less aggressively so. They are highly protective though regardless. And it varies from dog to dog, dispite what the occasional expert tries to tell you nature matters as much as nuture.

Apollo as an example: his breeder's goal was/is to breed for a dog that not only fits the confirmation requirements, and still guards, but that honestly likes people. He was also tube/bottle fed as a pup due to very large litter size and mom requiring a c-section. Deep in his heart he KNOWS people are wonderfull creatures who pet him, and love him, and give him yummy things, and he LOVES people. But a few weeks ago he scared the living daylights out of a group of kids who were selling candy because he didn't hear them walk up the drive so they startled him. He wouldn't have actually attacked them, not unless they had attempted to enter the house without permission, and I'm not sure he would have actually bitten then. But for that instant he was in full on PROTECT mode. On the other hand he knows my inlaws well, and as such they can, and have, walk into our house unannounced and without us home.

Well socialized they get along with other dogs and animals just fine (I have two cats, and a 2nd smaller dog), with some specific exceptions. Most TMs have issues with same sex aggression of same sex dogs on their territory, especially if the other dog is on the larger side and intact, spay/neuter of the TM does not always solve this issue. Also, dispite technically being a Livestock Guardian Breed, many owners report that they cannot be trained out of chasing/killing poultry, even when raised with the birds, and I can personally testify that Apollo considers rabbits to be good eating, especially if he caught them himself.

They are not driven by what you want, and are very independant, which doesn't mean they don't want to be with you. Again it varies. Apollo wants to have us in sight at all times. Some of this is the guardian nature, but some is because he's that well bonded with us and honestly wants to be around us. However the joke is that for some TMs 'in sight' can mean that they know where they left you and that they trust you to stay there while they go on their mile jaunt. Also Some TMs do seem to prefer to be more 'outside' dogs than inside dogs. And even Apollo is HIGHLY more independant than every GSD I've met (and I do like GSDs, we almost got one....).

You're going to think I'm saying you're stupid, and I swear I'm not, I just need to make sure you understand: TMs will 'come' and even do so apparently reliably, till SOMETHING twigs their protective nature. Then that independant, not driven by what their master wants, nature kicks in and HE WILL NOT COME. They cannot be allowed off leash in a unsecured area. ALOT of people, even those used to difficult to train dogs, struggle with this concept. Its not a matter of finding the right training technique, just like you cannot over-ride a bloodhound's nature to sniff you cannot over-ride that independant protective-ness in a TM. He's going to insist on checking out that something for himself to make sure its safe and without a leash you are NOT going to stop him. And god forbid its a person and your TM decides he IS a threat.

---------- Post added at 11:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 PM ----------

For an additional protective example: my husband is out of the house tonight taking a sleep test for sleep apnea. Apollo is in high alert mode because this isn't normal. Any person braving our porch before my husband gets home tomorrow will be greeted by a highly protective, very scary looking dog who is NOT happy to see them.

 

[ruthcatrin]

For an additional protective example: my husband is out of the house tonight taking a sleep test for sleep apnea. Apollo is in high alert mode because this isn't normal. Any person braving our porch before my husband gets home tomorrow will be greeted by a highly protective, very scary looking dog who is NOT happy to see them.

 

[Kelly]

Ruth, tell me more!!!

 

[ruthcatrin]

Lets move any additional questions on TMs down to that topic please.

 

[awestruckgsd]

Thank you Ruth you are awesome that is all the information in a nutshell that I have been searching for and I'll tell you why...LOL My last male shepherd that I have from our very first breeding almost 13 years ago "Rudy" is really failing health wise right now at 12 and a half years and you have just described his personality to a "T"...You see he is not your typical GSD and has always had extremely protective instincts much like your Tibetan and that is what we have loved most about him...Although he was very difficult to show and work with and judges didn't always appreciate his personality, as it's not really correct for a GSD, he has been the best dog ever protecting my family and our property and people have always said when they pull into the yard and we are not home they feel rather uncomfortable getting out of their vehicles as he would be making such a ruckess jumping at the fence and barking and although we have always known he would never attack anyone it always made us feel better knowing that he was doing his job...Living in the country most of the time by myself and raising children I always felt safe as my husband travels alot and now I am going to be all by myself as my kids are almost gone...The more and more I learn from you I really think a Tibetan is what we are looking for...Next question we have a 2 year old very submissive male English Mastiif what are your thoughts on another male or should we get a female??? We would be showing the dog for sure and I would be also doing obedience work as I do with all my dogs...and I guess if you have any reputable breeders I could talk to I would love to check them out as well...Thanks again Ruth you are the best...Judy

 

[ruthcatrin]

Answered down in your TM thread.

 

[awestruckgsd]

Good Luck Ruth on your Conformation Showing classes and do try at least one show...I'm pretty sure you will be hooked... It is such an exhilarating feeling as you run around the ring and everyone claps for you and when the judge actually chooses you it is the best feeling ever...but the most important thing to remember is to have fun with your dog even though sometimes they aren't always going to perform the way you want them too...LOL

 

[ruthcatrin]

How do I explain to the Handling class instructor that TM's are neither food driven nor toy driven?? I'm going to bring pepperoni with me as my "bait" next class in an attempt to show her that he won't take it, but she keeps insisting that there's got to be SOMETHING that'll hold his attention....to which I finally responded "well if you want to bring your Beagle pup over here sure but he won't be stacked then...." I'm not sure she appreciated the humor of the statement (for the record Apollo loves puppies and small dogs, and honestly thinks they make the best playmates). Ok, it probly wasn't the best thing I coulda said, but its been a long frustrating day all around and I was approaching my limit (I hit it a few minutes later when Apollo decided the ring fence needed marking....we came home).

Seriously though? I realize that dogs that are honestly NOT food or squeaker driven aren't that common in the show ring, but I can't get through to her that it doesn't work!

He is doing better over all, he's ALMOST stacking on his own for me, even with the distractions around him, though he still doesn't get the whole "stand in line and look pretty" concept.