Coyote attack...again!

Discussion in 'Dogs in the News' started by Bailey's Mom, May 5, 2018.

  1. Bailey's Mom

    Bailey's Mom Super Moderator Staff Member

    https://london.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1386411

    Sorry, can't edit out the commercial....

    Hope this clip shows this coyote attack info from this week. Poor puppy! It's a really nice area where this family lives, lots of emphasis on natural areas spared from construction (Warbler woods) and near Springbank Park which is a sprawling riverside park full of wildlife. But this is becoming common here! Something needs to be done.

    I have a friend I used to join for morning walks, he goes farther than I do, and part of his walk takes him through a local cemetery, which backs onto a small Wooded lot (which has a public school on the other side...yikes) and he tells me he sees coyotes there all the time. He sees them skulking on the fringe of the trees, and they follow him and his dog Doc. One of the Clerks from work said he encountered a pack of them near a railroad track near our work. They didn't attack, but they were very interested in him. And a few years ago, they wiped out the goose and duck nest area along a stream near me. They killed everything...a really depressing spring.

    I get it that they are a top predator and that there is a balance in nature, but this lady is right, small children and even larger pets like my Mastiff may be next unless they bring in a cull. They aren't afraid of us anymore and sooner or later Someone is going to die. Add to that that local populations are now (according to a program I saw with Dr. Suzuki) Coy-wolves....larger and more deadly, we need answers, not more troubling journalism.

    If you hit search on CTV, you'll see several other incidents.
     
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  2. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Well-Known Member

    That‘s bad, especially so close to schools and neighborhoods with pets. Do you believe a coyote would attack a full grown Mastiff? I wouldn‘t think so, but not sure how they behave in an environment like that. A pack of coyotes can certainly be dangerous.
     
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  3. trg

    trg Active Member

    So I have experienced this first hand, one coyote will yelp in the woods to attract a dog. Once the dog goes to investigate, the whole pack attacks. About a year ago a coyote tried to lure Georgia into the woods using this tactic. I had heard the coyotes two days before across the ridge by my house. We have chickens so that was the reason. So one coyote vs. one Mastiff, no chance. 10-20 yotes, not good. I am friends with many raccoon hunters locally and the yote population here is pretty strong, Coon dogs have been attacked In the last couple of years. I have hunted coyotes, they are smart as any top predator in my opinion.
     
  4. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Well-Known Member

    Thanks for sharing this insight. I‘ve heard that they are even roaming the streets of Chicago, so this no longer seems to be a strictly rural problem.
     
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  5. trg

    trg Active Member

    So what’s scary to is the hybrid coywolf, they are seeing them breeding which makes a larger, smarter dog. I think in city’s coyotes are not as elusive as being use to many sounds, sights, smells etc... it it tougher to see one in the country. We hear them often but rarely see them. Even the closest town to me, we see them cross the road without much fear. I believe they are very opportunistic in city’s. There is a place a couple of hours from me in the Great Smokey Mtns Nat Park that has almost tame yotes, they will almost beg for food. The place is called Cade’s cove, it is a wildlife habitat heaven.
     
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  6. April Nicole

    April Nicole Well-Known Member

    Ugh coyotes!... :eek::mad: I know they have a purpose. But I just do not like them. We hear them yipping, and yelling out there. And sometimes it sounds so creepy like their laughing at us. Thankfully I've never had to deal with one head on. We see them crossing roads sometimes, and we here them a lot, glad they keep their distance.
     
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  7. Bailey's Mom

    Bailey's Mom Super Moderator Staff Member

    Trying to show you a den hole at our local dog park...it's in the wooded area. It's quite large. I've found several of them. They are huge...I figure fox or coyote. I've never seen anything coming out of them...perhaps they've moved on/out since the park has become so busy now the snow has gone. I hope so, or a small dog sniffing around might become a snack.
    20180507_174656.jpg
     
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  8. April Nicole

    April Nicole Well-Known Member

    Yikes, that is big. Hopefully whatever was there has moved on. I hope a small dog doesn't wander in there for a nap!
     
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  9. Bailey's Mom

    Bailey's Mom Super Moderator Staff Member

    So, my husband tells me they have a warning posted on the time clock at work telling staff to use extreme care going to their vehicles, especially early and late shift, as a large group of coyotes have been seen in the parking lot area.

    I really think it's time for the government to get involved with stemming this problem. I work a mile away from my husband's company, and I live 1.5 miles from it. Why are we waiting for a tragedy? These animals have lost their fear of humans, and working as a pack are a real danger, even to an adult.

    I guess there haven't been too many coyote attacks on humans, but two spring to mind. One was a small girl following her father up a flight of stairs at an outdoor tennis court. The coyote grabbed the little girl through the handrail and was dragging her into the bushes, but her father was able to beat it off with his tennis racket.

    The second attack was fatal, a young female country and western singer was walking alone along the wooded trail. Another group of hikers heard her screams and were able to scare the coyotes off though they were still nearby when the 911 call brought a Mounty to the scene. He was able to shoot and wound one animal, and the woman was taken to hospital, but after being airlifted to a trauma centre succumbed to her injuries.

    Coyote Watch Canada has some resources for living with coyotes in relative harmony, and I'll try to include a couple of their articles; however, I find the increasing incidents of attacks on humans and pets makes it hard for me to accept being nice.

    I just read a more recent account of a kid who was wearing BMX-type body armour, stepping off his bike and being attacked by by a lone coyote. He tripped the boy by attacking from behind, and while the boy was down tried biting his legs, but the armour protected him. The coyote went for the back of the knee trying to cripple him. Unable to get a good hold on him, he then bit the boy's unprotected butt. The boy was able to roll over and choke the creature which at that point gave up the attack. The boy underwent Rabis shots.

    This boy wasn't small, why did he become a target? What if he'd been a toddler? We'd be talking about the funeral arrangements. I just can't accept this co-operative theory. I never encountered a coyote in London until around 2006 or 2008(?) Even then, I was in a car, not on foot, but it was rush hour traffic on a busy residential road and this animal was standing there on the side of the road totally oblivious to the cars whipping by. Not a creature I want to meet on a dark street. Too self assured, too calm, too dangerous; he's not going to be afraid of me. This was near the university. There are lots of students walking the paths to and from the different buildings. Sooner or later....

    And this just freaks me out, I grew up a wild child, in the woods alone or with friends playing, hiking, fishing: kid stuff. The largest animals I saw were fox or deer (the deer could hear us coming...we just saw their white tails), but kids now, they've got to live in bubbles, coyotes, ticks, human predators, traffic. They practically have to stay inside because the outside will kill them. I just don't believe dangerous wildlife should be acceptable in the city.
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. Bailey's Mom

    Bailey's Mom Super Moderator Staff Member

    Sorry, It's a PDF file, you'll have to download to see or you could just go to Coyote Watch Canada.
     
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  11. April Nicole

    April Nicole Well-Known Member

    Wish you could have a gun. That would scare them!
     
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  12. Nik

    Nik Well-Known Member

    Wow. I understand the fear. Apparently we have coyotes in my area now. My neighbor was telling me just the other day she heard her dogs barking at something went to check it out and it was a large pack on the other side of her fence. I don't leave my dogs outside unsupervised ever and that is one of the reasons why (among many). I am also trying to ween them off potty times in the dark (extend their time to hold through the entire night). I can see what is out there in the daylight but in the dark it feels far more dangerous.

    As for the coyote attacks would something like bear spray work on a coyote? I am weary of saying anything about culling just because of what happenned to the wolves and the grizzly etc in our area. As scary and dangerous as these animals are extinction is an even greater threat to the entire ecological system not just the threatened species. I suppose if the coyotes are plentiful enough this may not be an issue but I would be very cautious of slippery slopes with that sort of solution.

    I also once saw a coyote back when I lived in San Diego and I lived in the middle of the city. I was in my car in my parking lot at my apartments and was afraid to get out with the large coyote staring me down from outside the car. I called animal control and left and came back once the coyote was gone.
     
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  13. Bailey's Mom

    Bailey's Mom Super Moderator Staff Member

    Well, I posted a file at work regarding the growing coyote problem in our area. I know as our company's health and safety person that this could be a concern for our staff leaving at night. Personally, I wouldn't like to face this news item, "...cashier/clerk mauled by pack of coyotes."
    Between the attacks on humans, which are growing, and the pet attacks, I'm skeptical of allowing an Apex Predator to live in the city limits. You can call me bitchy, but even one kid, one mom, one dad on his way home from work is TOO MUCH!
    Not a gun enthusiast. Guns are rare here in Canada (again, Thank God!) Nobody else here have them and if they did, we'd have a GUN PROBLEM. Police Officerss would act more lethal and less thoughtful, IF EVERYONE WAS CARRYING GUNS. So, even though I have a problem with coyotes, I wouldn't opt for a rifle (lawful) unless I lived in the country and needed it for coyote control. Here in the city, it falls to City Hall and the province (yeah,..even the Fed's) We need a comprehensive policy.
    And Nik, I get it, humans are pigs when they kill a species to extinction, we are not talking extinction, but a taming of non-wild areas. Canada has lots of (big...Big) Space! Coyotes Don't need to live with us. It isn't cute,.it isn't amazing...it's dangerous.
    I remember some quote from the Old Testament about taking over the promised land in stages...clearing out wild animals as the population grew. It stayed with me that idea that we displaced wild nature to allow human population. Why are we welcoming them back into, what amounts to be our nursery...the heart of our homes?
    Nope, not in the city! Not in the suburbs! Not in the core! We need to keep destructive, threatening wildlife at bay. And, contrary to bleeding-heart types...I do believe in deer culls in significant biological areas, such as the Sifton Bog, when deer populations cripple those rare plant lifeforms. And, YES, packs of coyote would bring down the deer over population, EVENTUALLY, into control and balance, BUT at significant cost to the surrounding suburbs (such as the one shown in the start of this thread.)
    PS: I live on the opposite side of the city, not near the biologically significant, Sifton Bog! But, we have lots of city deer here, just across the street from me. Geese and ducks and deer...prey animals..meat for carnivore predation. I don't enjoy their demise, but VALUE the safety of our humankind to move about the neighbourhood without being attacked and mauled/killed.

    In most Canadian cities, dogs are prohibited to be off leash. They can be picked up and euthanized if you don't proactively intervene to save them: and hefty fines, if your dog gets loose. So, why do we tolerate, non-vaccinated canids/coyote in our neighbourhoods? Why? Keeping them out of our neighbourhoods isn't abusive to coyotes, it's Protective of Humans.

    It's not just Canada...Hell'S Bells, it's North America....BUT, worse...more prevalent in the US. I'm anxious now...wait 10 years if the Ministry of Natural Resources doesn't step up their game in this matter. 10 years from now, if the government doesn't step up their game, we'll be burying people.

    Like most reasonable people, I have changed my personal behaviour. I don't walk Bailey at Dawn or Dusk. I stay away from ravines and industrial areas, I vet every scenario to avoid conflict with dangerous animals...coyotes/dogs/people. AND,3 My World Gets Smaller and Smaller to accommdate the lack of responsible leadership to contain this danger.
     
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  14. Sheila Braund

    Sheila Braund Well-Known Member

    Your in London right? Your about 45 minutes away from me... We need to get just a couple more EMs and go for walks in those areas.... That coyote pack behind my house no longer comes close to our property where Bella patrols..... I check for their tracks a couple times a week.
    They had the same problem in Victoria BC in their Central Park ....small dogs were attacked or stocked....not sure but one of the EM breeders took 3 of his EMs paltroling there a couple time a week and there was a lot less sightings of the coyote/dogs....

    And I can tell you a wolf would not breed with a coyote....they are natural enemies.
    I do know coyote will breed with dogs....and their called bush wolves because their larger then the coyote because of the dog.... This is worse then a cross of a wolf coyote because most of these dogs aren't afraid of humans. This domestic dogs that have been thrown away ....dropped off treach their pups not to fear humans
     
  15. Sheila Braund

    Sheila Braund Well-Known Member

    The Parks and rec of Ontario had the discussion a couple years back.... Coyote was protected and they were going to higher trappers.....because they believed that was more humane then shootting them. Dumb asses if you ask me.... Then they found out the cost and decided to lift the band and allow us framers to deal with it..... And we do
     
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  16. Nik

    Nik Well-Known Member

    I completely understand both sides of this. Afterall I am worried about them in my new place. My neighbors have seen a small two -three coyote pack just last week in a portion of their yard. I worry for my dogs and for me. How could I not worry?

    But, I am also so involved with animal preservation (granted I am more involved with the projects the San Diego Zoo supports like to preserve the rhinos and the cheetahs and I am fairly certain that coyotes are not a threatened species). I just worry about how easy it is to go to being an endangered species when you are a scary predator. Being from California most of our scary predators were entirely wiped out years and years ago. I get that in Canada that is not the same case at all as you guys still have much more of an abundance of open spaces.

    But, I can't help thinking of the plight of the wolves in yellowstone and how reintroducing them has started to heal their entire ecosystem. It goes well beyond keeping the deer and other prey animals in check. It touches the actual geography too. It is such a delicately balanced system our earth and messing it up as we so often do has some horrible consequences for us. If you haven't seen this video yet (in the article) I highly recommend it. It is truly amazing the balance that exists unknown to us.
    https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wolf-reintroduction-changes-ecosystem

    And then I think back to the cheetahs plight in Africa and how the San Diego Zoo working with the World Wildlife Foundation is helping to save them through introducing great pyrenees and other working breed dogs to the farmers who were hunting the cheetahs to extinction. The farmers were concerned about the cheetahs killing off their livestock which is a very legitimate concern and threat to them, their families, their livlihood. But, the cheetah is in serious danger of facing extinction. By introducing the dogs to the farmers it got rid of the threat of cheetahs for them. Cheetahs are notoriously cowards. The won't attack if they think there is a danger to themselves and the dogs are enough of a deterrent. Obviously the cheetah plight is extreme and there are many other programs also in place but I do think animal threats like this need innovative thinking and creative solutions. If there is an overpopulation and the research shows that then culling may be part of the answer. But, I don't think that answer alone suffices. You still need to find a way to coexist because even when their populations are diminished they will come into populated areas for water, food, etc when it is scarce in the wilder places. And of course by coexist I mean creative solutions to help keep the human population safe as well.
     
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  17. Sheila Braund

    Sheila Braund Well-Known Member

    Nikki do agree with you, that's why when I do hunt he coyote on my property I only take out the old and several injured. At one time not to long ago I had a pack of 25 to 30 coyote in a den in my back yard. When I first moved here over 15 years ago the pack wasn't that large... then someone build a sub Survey across the road from me.... what I call the city yuppies moved in... let they small dogs and cat out without supervision and then we start seeing all these lost pet posters everywhere.... also these new neighbours left their garbage out where the wild life could come and feast.... in about 5 years that small pack turned into a much larger one. And with no real natural enemies around anymore the older and weaker ones live a lot longer because of the easy food supply.

    We lost a lot of wild life here...we had our red fox family disappear along with the small family of timberwolves that would come and drink water from our property.

    Now the coyote pack is a more manageable size we've noticed some red foxes around last year and this year...along with some wood ducks pheasants and the deer population is grown very larger here.... I have a small herd that cut threw my property couple times a week.

    This is why I suggest a large dog pack walk around the dangerous areas.... with the males and females marking the area these coyote will move on....problem solved for a time....until the coyotes move back. That could be 6 months to a couple years.

    I've seen a program like this work out in BC
     
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  18. Sheila Braund

    Sheila Braund Well-Known Member

    Yes coyote is smart and sneaky too... I've heard them out in the dark. One you can hear acting like an injured animal to draw the neighbourhood dogs out for an easy meal.... I do hear that more so in the harder months of winter and the dry spells of summer....sneaky little devils
     
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  19. Boxergirl

    Boxergirl Well-Known Member

    I was just discussing this with someone recently. There was a whole documentary on it and it was just amazing to see the changes. Beavers too. One beaver can change the entire waterway.
     
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  20. April Nicole

    April Nicole Well-Known Member

    We recently watched a documentary about beavers. They are amazing! Maybe the same one you are referring to. They turned a desert land into an oasis.
     
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