Different raw feeding models

[BAMCB]

I am currently on the 80/10/5/5(as you all know with the amount of posts I've made) lol
I am very interested in other models too though. I am wondering how everyone here feels about or have heard how they work. It makes sense to me but mostly because of my research for *human* diets. Probiotics, super foods, bone broths, antioxidants etc.... Are all needed for healthy guts, immune, brain, physical functions so you could make the link for dogs too. But is that a far stretch? Please let me know the good and the bad, I enjoy everyone's opinions even if different from mine
Here's an example but I can find more after we are done clearing the garage for our second freezer to accommodate our(fingers crossed!) haul tomorrow. Thanks!

Raw dog food | Raw diet | Raw dog food recipes | Feeding Raw

 

[DennasMom]

I'm completely open to new and varied diet plans... I'm always reading up on the latest trends as well as traditional diet menus that people are writing about - for both dogs and humans. We're all mammals, so things should transfer at some level - although I'm careful not to cross-assume too much, as some things definitely do NOT transfer from humans (omnivore) to canines (mostly carnivore).

That said... if I fed Denna the 8month+ menu from your link... where 3 out of the first 4 days are just chicken backs... she's be stopped up like a champagne bottle, i.e. CONSTIPATED beyond repair. I'm not sure if GSD's are that different, but 25 percent bone in the diet is a LOT of bone... Denna stays firm on 5-7 percent and gets constipated on over 8 percent.... 25 percent would kill her. Seriously.

What that tells me, is every dog is an individual, and there are variances in dietary needs (and acceptable ranges) among breeds, also. Just like humans are individuals and there are pockets of evolutionary differences, too (Eskimos can thrive on high saturated fat diets and don't digest grains well, where Mediterranean people evolved to better digest grains and need lower levels of unsaturated fats for best health).

I read often that dogs do best on the whole prey model raw diet (80/10/5/5)... with added yellow and orange veggies for the best fight against cancer. Which is what Denna's diet is based on... I use WPM raw as the foundation, and add in fruits and veggies as we have them, and/or in season. We avoid most grains in our house for both the humans and animals - other than a two mornings a week with some steel cut oats (sometimes Denna gets a few spoonfuls of that, too, but not regularly).

Denna does get probiotics and digestive enzymes daily (she's on Nupro Silver with joint support). She's going through some antibiotics for a foot injury now, so the probiotics are even more important... we're using "probiotic miracle" right now, since some of the reviews suggested they help with ear issues (which she also has on occasion). I make bone broth for the humans (I normally eat a bowl of homemade soup for lunch), and Denna gets broth cubes often when I'm cooking. I've also started giving Denna Vit D and E supplements - but only a little (too much D can be toxic for dogs), and only once a week. The first time I gave her the E, her paw pads got really nice and smooth... so, I like that!

Here's a post I read recently that has lots of good info: DogAware.com Articles: Homemade Raw Diets for Dogs

Keep posting more of your findings - I'd love to read more about all the options!

 

[BAMCB]

Thank you DennasMom I will link more as I find them. I have noticed a number of the example meal plans have a lot of chicken backs, and bone in general, along with recommendations of anywhere from 10-25% bone. My girls would also be backed up to all hell if I fed more than 10%. Sonny on the other hand needs more than 10. I would mostly stick with the 10/5/5 but wonder about add ins with the other 80%. Kefir, cottage cheese, blueberries, veggie stew etc. I am planning on a lot more green tripe if I am able to get it. I will not be adding grains at this point but would love to hear an argument for why I should. Anyone?

 

[angelbears]

I think probiotics are great. I am not a believer of adding fruit and veggies to their meals. However, they do get fruit and veggies. When we are cooking dinner we will give them what ever we fixing. I try to make sure all their nutritional needs are met in their meal. I don't worry about treats.

 

[BAMCB]

So upon starting a conversation with hubs about adding in kefir, veggies, broth etc... This was his reply:
"I think we already go through a lot finding and preparing their raw food, I do t think we need to be making them casseroles"
Hummm....do you think there is a bit of sarcasm there? LOL:')

Maybe I should not push it anymore. Hahaha

 

[QY10]

I add bone broth (just bones, ACV and water in the slow cooker for min. 24 hours) to my pack's food. I also add golden paste, or just organic ground turmeric. All 3 also get Glycoflex Stage 3.
I do not add fruit of veggies to my pack's meals. There is a mounting amount of research to suggest that dogs are carnivores and that their internal physiology is mostly unchanged from that of a wolves internal physiology. Their teeth suggest this, they lack the enzymes to break down carbohydrates, they have the enzymes needed to kill pathogenic bacteria, they have short intestines to push meat through quickly, they have very strong stomach acid etc...

Some people will claim that wolves in the wild, when eating their kill, eat the intestines which contain vegetation. Yes, they eat the intestines, but when the intestines are punctures and torn apart, the bulk of the vegetation spills out and is not consumed by the wolf.

While dogs are very adaptable, it doesn't mean it's in the dog's best interest to feed them a particular diet just because they can survive on it. There is a huge difference between surviving and thriving.

Do my dogs sometimes get a piece of fruit or vegetables? Yep! But it's not a regular or daily thing with them.

The proof is in the pudding, as they say. Thalia can outwork and outperform most dogs that I have met. She has energy for days and her physical condition is unmatched to any other local dog around here. Sure, some of it is genetics. But she has been kibble fed, BARF fed and PMR fed. She has thrived on a PMR diet. Angus is the same, despite his cruciate injury. He is very strong, his physical condition is incredible and he is energetic. Other than check ups (and when Angus tore his CCL, which is likely related to being neutered at an early age and poor breeding than anything else), these dogs never have to go to the vet and when they're in for check ups, the vets and vet techs are blown away by them. I can't say that the results would be the same if I started adding fruits, veggies and other things to their diets.

I actually remember when I used to train Thalia with small carrot pieces. I would look at her poop afterwards and the carrot was never digested. I could see little carrot pieces in her poop looking exactly the same way as when I fed it to her.

 

[DennasMom]

Casseroles! LOL!! I do see people going to a lot of trouble to create menus for their dogs... only to complain about how hard it is... when it really doesn't need to be.
and... Carrot... straight through! Yes!! Apples also... straight through! (with peel still attached)... I think that's what led to Denna being a poop-eater... she saw all her treats there, available to consume again! Bonus!!
That convinced me that fruit and veggies aren't required in the diet, too.

When I do give Denna veggies, they've been frozen, which helps the cellulose break down in the gut faster so the nutrients can get out. They also help bulk up her poops which helps her anal glands express. When I go 80/10/10 and no additions, her poops are like rabbit poops... small, hard nuggets. And after a week or so, she starts doing the boot-scoot-boogie due to filling anal glands. Keeping some veggies in her mix to bulk up the poops helps keep things moving on a more regular basis for her. Even with the veggies, her poops are still as small as my sister's BC/Heeler mix (~50lbs)...so I'm not adding much. Of course that dog in on a prescription anti-allergy food... so... her poops are plentiful.

My additions I consider extra to the regular food... so I keep the 80/10/10 blend (or in our case, 83/7/10 blend at lower bone content) the same, and use the additions as "toppers". If the adders are higher calorie (i.e. dairy products), I would cut back on the main food some... but I don't consider veggies as adding any calories to her diet.

Many dogs don't do well with dairy products, so other than a few bits of cheese as treats, Denna doesn't get dairy products.

DogsNaturallyMagazine has lots of articles on different 'superfoods' for dogs... including golden paste (turmeric). They also post on homeopathic remedies and other alternative health practices, which I find interesting to read about.

 

[QY10]

Carrot... straight through! Yes!! Apples also... straight through! (with peel still attached)... I think that's what led to Denna being a poop-eater... she saw all her treats there, available to consume again! Bonus!!

OMG! LOL! Such a good point! Hahahaha

 

[BAMCB]

Score one for Denna!! LOL that made my day

 

[dpenning]

I add bone broth (just bones, ACV and water in the slow cooker for min. 24 hours) to my pack's food. I also add golden paste, or just organic ground turmeric. All 3 also get Glycoflex Stage 3.
I do not add fruit of veggies to my pack's meals. There is a mounting amount of research to suggest that dogs are carnivores and that their internal physiology is mostly unchanged from that of a wolves internal physiology. Their teeth suggest this, they lack the enzymes to break down carbohydrates, they have the enzymes needed to kill pathogenic bacteria, they have short intestines to push meat through quickly, they have very strong stomach acid etc...

Some people will claim that wolves in the wild, when eating their kill, eat the intestines which contain vegetation. Yes, they eat the intestines, but when the intestines are punctures and torn apart, the bulk of the vegetation spills out and is not consumed by the wolf.
Snip

I watched a lion eat a fresh kill, it was very interesting. He bit off the fur and spit it out before biting the gut open. When he got to the intestine he started at the end and ate it like a spaghetti noodle almost milking out the content before he ate the intestine. Almost methodical. Finely tuned carnivore technique.

 

[NYDDB]

I also feed pretty much PMR: meat/bone/organs. I don't add in veggies or fruit for 2 simple reasons: 1) I don't believe carnivoires need or can properly utilize them (unless pulverized to death), and 2) Mateo wouldn't eat them if they were covered in gravy, lol. My last dog, a Labrador, loved sharing my apples and bananas with me. Well, he loved anything that resembled food (except bread, strangely enough.)

I do try to keep up with the making of bone broth- for me and Mateo- but when things get hectic, I add in some beef or pork based collagen powder to his food (as well as chicken and duck feet, for the glucosamine.)

As an aside, I strongly believe that his recovery from an ACL tear was due in large part to his diet and the supplements I added in: organic MSM sulphur powder; bone broth; "golden paste" (turmeric), which I still give him); and occasionally some vitamin c powder. It is very unusual for a giant breed dog to recover from such a nasty knee injury without surgery---even my vet was amazed. But diet is so important... the body, I believe, will heal, given the right tools to work with. And time.

 

[NYDDB]

Oh. But Mateo does get an occasional piece or two of goat's milk gouda cheese (not PMR, obviously, but he will drool a large puddle if I am eating some, so...how can I say no?

 

[BAMCB]

Oh. But Mateo does get an occasional piece or two of goat's milk gouda cheese (not PMR, obviously, but he will drool a large puddle if I am eating some, so...how can I say no?

I'm a sucker for the begging lol

I am hoping that this diet will help Chica overcome whatever is making her globulin levels so high. They have gone down ever so slightly, but still down. That is a good sign. With an awesome diet full of everything she needs(and was denied for so long) I pray they will continue down. It took a long time for her to get to that state of ill health so maybe a long time to get back. Idk but really want that to be true!

 

[QY10]

As an aside, I strongly believe that his recovery from an ACL tear was due in large part to his diet and the supplements I added in: organic MSM sulphur powder; bone broth; "golden paste" (turmeric), which I still give him); and occasionally some vitamin c powder. It is very unusual for a giant breed dog to recover from such a nasty knee injury without surgery---even my vet was amazed. But diet is so important... the body, I believe, will heal, given the right tools to work with. And time.

My vet and rehab specialist were both amazed with Angus, too. When Jenn (Rehab lady) does seminars and people ask if conservative management really works to heal cruciate tears without surgery, her response is, "No... But there is this one dog named Angus..." HAHA I really think it had a lot to do with the diet and that I followed her instructions. A lot of people get a head of themselves and see the dog limping less and think, "They can go off leash to pee today...." It was nearly a year before I let Angus off leash... It was tough, but it was needed.

 

[QY10]

I watched a lion eat a fresh kill, it was very interesting. He bit off the fur and spit it out before biting the gut open. When he got to the intestine he started at the end and ate it like a spaghetti noodle almost milking out the content before he ate the intestine. Almost methodical. Finely tuned carnivore technique.

That is amazing! Perfect example of how they know exactly what will benefit them the most.

 

[tmricciuto]

While I'm still feeding kibble at this point, I do give the girls a carrot a day and they love their bananas. The carrots have really helped with their anal glands and that's the main reason I give them. And I just like to see their happy faces when they get a banana.

 

[BAMCB]

I make a ton of bone broth for us and give some to the pups but not a large amount(we use it up pretty quick). I have marrow bones I give to them in their cages. After 2 chew times they are tossed. Could I use these for their bone broth? Lots of marrow still in them and they are put back in the freezer as soon as the chew session is over. Thoughts?

 

[NYDDB]

I make a ton of bone broth for us and give some to the pups but not a large amount(we use it up pretty quick). I have marrow bones I give to them in their cages. After 2 chew times they are tossed. Could I use these for their bone broth? Lots of marrow still in them and they are put back in the freezer as soon as the chew session is over. Thoughts?

I am assuming the bones are raw? If so, then yes-- why not.

 

[BAMCB]

I am assuming the bones are raw? If so, then yes-- why not.

Thank you Yes, they are raw. I was just wondering because they are frozen, thawed to chew, frozen, thawed to chew and then frozen again. Was unsure if it would be unsafe. I was guessing not but thought I'd check.