Father Wants To Breed For Profit

[MooseBear]

Hey guys,

My father has this idea that he wants to breed our French Mastiff when he is done growing, and sell the puppies to make a profit. I am disgusted with his idea, but he won't see to reason. Do you guys have any tips to deal with this? Like how much breeding really costs, and the fact that you can't really make money off breeding? For the sake of my dog and rising pet population. I don't think it's right or fair.

Any advice would be great.

Thanks.

 

[AKBull]

How would he sell the pups if the dog's a male? He would be studding the dog out.
And it would be up to the other breeders to chose your dog to breed with.

I do agree about not breeding for profit.

 

[MooseBear]

Well he talked about buying a female. Which I hope he doesn't do. And hopefully he won't. He doesn't comprehend how hard it is financially and responsibly it is.

 

[AKBull]

Yeah that's a whole different ball game then.

I know most of the reasons not to do it, but not well enough to try to sell someone of the idea of not doing it. Especially those people who are just in it for the money, because in the end, they don't care what they produce as long as it has dollar signs attached to it.

You could tell him that the dog might need to have a C-section to get the pups out, or risk damaging the mother. That's a big chunk of change. Plus all the vaccinations for the pups. It's not letting the dogs do the doo and collect the money in a couple of months.

 

[ruthcatrin]

there is no such thing as "breeding for profit" not if you're going to do all the appropriate health testing before during and after pregnancy, vaccinations, and thats just if everything goes WELL, the medical costs if something goes wrong..... Get your vet to give you a quote for what it would cost for an emergency c-section for a large breed bitch, and then a list of the other things that can go wrong with whelping and what it'd cost to fix those...THEN, if your vet doesn't do their own emergency service (if they do make sure they quote the ER price, not the standard visit price) call your local ER Vet (you might have to explain why you're aksing before they'll quote) and ask THEM to quote the rates for the same issues.


Edited: while you're talking to your vet's office, get quotes for all teh appropriate health tests, vaccinations, etc that momma and pups would need...

 

[ruby55]

One of the reasons these dogs are so expensive is because it's hard to create, whelp & raise a litter. I'm assuming DDB's are like bulls; the litters are usually born c-section because it's so hard on the mother (breathing issues, for one) that the pups may die in utero. They are also usually artificially inseminated to prevent injury to either dog or bitch. So the vet bills are pretty high before the puppies are even born. In order to be a good breeder, all sorts of testing should be done on both dog & bitch, like hips, heart, possibly eyes, before breeding. One or both of the parents should have some sort of pedigree at the very least; champions in the lines somewhere. Without pedigrees & champion lines, you definitely won't make any money on the litter; no one will pay premium prices for your puppies. Oh; and what do you do if you don't sell all of them?
Once the puppies are born, you will have shots, checkups, for ALL the puppies before they are sold. Deworming; weaning to dog food; postnatal care of the bitch...
Your dad will just be contributing to the detriment of your breed if he goes ahead with this plan with no forethought. I'm not saying your dog is not a good candidate for a breeding program, but you need to be sure before you breed him. And you need to be sure of the bitch as well.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Hmmm where to start... I could just send him the vet bill from caring for 7 puppies until they leave for their new homes.

This is just for us and rough costs based on region as I am sure costs vary if you are in a more urban area

Before Breeding:

Health screenings - 700.00
Progesterone tests - 248.00 (approx. 4 tests to determine when they spike in a cycle can be more or less but about 62.00 test)
Travel to get to stud - 500.00 to 1000.00
Stud Fee 2000.00 to 3500.00 (depends on the male used)
Travel for pick up - 500.00
Ultrasound - 200.00
Increase in Food - 240.00 (more a week to ensure she was getting enough nutrients approx 40.00/week for the next 6 weeks)
Whelping box and supplies - 700.00
Emerg. in case of c-section - 2000.00 to 3000.00
Puppies starting on mush - 210.00 (about 70.00/week for puppy mush started at 3 weeks)
Puppy Vaccines/check-up/microchip - 500.00 ( this is one vaccine at 6 to 7 weeks so if the puppies are here longer then the vaccine/check up costs are added again)
Increase in puppy food - 210.00 (approx 70/week depending on the food you are feeding)

This doesn't include the time taken off from work to stay home with the puppies to get them used to a new stage, to make to vet appts. travel to have them temperament tested, travel to have the ears done in Quebec, travel to ship them out or the time spent going through applications and interview/meeting people who are interested, time spent socializing them and providing all the care needed for puppies. I don't know if I caught everything here but you can get my point from it. Also the puppies, if you keep any are not puppies you "make money off". If I forgot anything please feel free to add it on as I am sure there is more to it that I missed but as you can see it is a very good thing I love my dogs

 

[ruby55]

Who legally owns your dog?

 

[angelbears]

Breeding for the inexperienced is a lot like gambling. Sometimes you get lucky but more often than not you loose. Is your dad willing to take a loss?

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Was the dog sold to him on a spay/neuter contract? I don't know what else to tell him to scare him. Unfortunately for the most part it won't matter what we or you tell him if he really wants to do it he will

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Was the dog sold to him on a spay/neuter contract? I don't know what else to tell him to scare him. Unfortunately for the most part it won't matter what we or you tell him if he really wants to do it he will

So true.....

 

[chuckorlando]

Thats not always the case. You folks talked me out of even considering it. Mostly because I refuse to put my dog in potential harm. But then again my motive was not money.

Unfortunatly Blackshadow your the exception not the rule. I'd never heard of half the things you went through and most home puppy dealers wont spend any of that. But we can all look at the local pounds for an example of that fact I guess

Was the dog sold to him on a spay/neuter contract? I don't know what else to tell him to scare him. Unfortunately for the most part it won't matter what we or you tell him if he really wants to do it he will

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Thats not always the case. You folks talked me out of even considering it. Mostly because I refuse to put my dog in potential harm. But then again my motive was not money.

Unfortunatly Blackshadow your the exception not the rule. I'd never heard of half the things you went through and most home puppy dealers wont spend any of that. But we can all look at the local pounds for an example of that fact I guess

But the difference is you just wanted another puppy for yourself it wasn't to make $$$. That is the difference, greed for the almighty $$$ can cause a lot of people to do stuff.

 

[chuckorlando]

Yea I agree with that. But I love my dogs like my kids. Aint that much money in the world for me. I could'nt live with myself if Kona died or went blind for a few hundred bucks.

 

[northernmastiff]

I know a few breeders who would love to breed for a profit as well...or at least to break even. LOL. That sounds wrong...what I mean is that you don't make money from breeding. After everything we did with Petey, I think I was about 2000 in the hole (probably more but for the sake of my marriage, I won't crunch the numbers) but it was a lot of fun getting him trained up and there was a sense of contentment when his tests and certifications came back as clear but outside of making money, that never happened. A friend of mine (she has bred labs for over 20 years) figured out how much she made per hour. If she was lucky and managed to have a litter of 10 (she usually had 6 to 8 pups), she made a total of 38 cents per hour/40 hours (but she was being optimistic, expect to spend more time than that caring for the puppies). That isn't a lot of money. She also didn't factor in if a puppy came back to her or if there was an emergency such as a c-section. She also didn't factor in the cost of raising the dam, getting her clearances and such. All she looked at was the cost of the stud fee, the vet appointments during pregnancy and the cost of raising the pups. If she looked at the rest, she would be in the hole. Since she bred labs, the price she sold them for was 850 but if you sell the pups for twice that, you are still looking at a 76cent profit per hour. 8 weeks you just made 200 bucks for all your hard work...oh, wait, mom is going to need some help getting back into condition so you might as well just put that 200 back into the dogs again.

I think that is the best way to approach it. Seeing a list of each individual cost can water it down a bit since you can say things like...well, I won't get that...or I won't do that but if you focus on the hours. My parents bred pomeranians for years and I remember them spending over 2000 due to complications with the dam. She was at the vets for over a week and guess who bottlefed the 3 puppies...us and that is a lot of work. With your dad, spin the worst case scenario, add up the vet bills if she needs a c-section (I don't know DDB's very well but for some reason I thought they needed c-sections more often than not), and the cost of puppy formula if you need to bottle feed. It probably won't look as appealing.

 

[TMcrazy]

Here's a good read to perhaps show him...
http://www.tibetanmastiffinfo.com/breeders/Tempted-Tibetan-Mastiff-Info.shtml