Hilda hates her crate!

[HildaDoglittle]

Hi all!

We rescued Hilda about six weeks ago. We've had a lot of difficulties with her crate training that have culminated in what looks like boundary testing this past week. Some of the difficulties have been getting her to go in her crate in the first place and "separation anxiety."

We've tried a couple of things with mixed results -- we started giving all of her meals in her crate, we have a high-reward toy (Kong with frozen peanutbutter -- recommended by vet) that she only gets when inside, playing games like fetch inside the crate, and we have given her items of clothing that smell like us. We have to crate her on vet's orders (to avoid her eating things she's not supposed to). We say she has seperation anxiety because she whines even when someone leaves the room and closes the door -- it has gotten better since we rescued her, but it ebbs and flows.

The past couple days it's gotten really bad -- she's kept us up whining for hours every night -- last night, she whined literally all night. Also, yesterday while we were out, she managed to topple her crate over and break out. She is also very resistant to going inside the crate now, and will avoid going in even for her meals.

Any advice on what to do?

 

[Kcmam]

I'm interested in the feedback on this. We have been crate training Keeva since we brought her home at 8 weeks. During the day she will go into her crate when led over and told "go to bed" but immediately after door is closed she starts whining and howling and clawing at the crate bed(she has crate blankets but will shove them to the side). Now at night she doesn't do this. It just doesn't seem as she sees her crate as her "safe spot" it's more like during the day she thinks she's being punished and I have never used it as a punishment or put her in after being scolded. She will also pee as soon as she's put in during the day only. I feel your pain Hilda maybe someone here can help us.

 

[krisx]

-when she whines, (cryes, moans, groans, roars, howls, plays the trumpet lol) do not EVER EVER NEVER go over and 'check if she's ok'. never!
never acgnovledge her or let her out while she has a fit. whining get's you nothing.

have her on fixed potty time, you decide when. so she knows, whining don't get her out.

put a blanket over the crate

if you feel night concerts are getting a bit to much, correct her and leave again.

other that that, its just a matter of time. she will get used to it.
and make it nonagotiable. if you say get in, then its in. don't give her a choice and hesitate becouse there is resistance, dont feed defiance. act as if it is a must. if you hesitate its going to take longer.

with mine, it took 2 weeks. when he was real bad, i moved him to besement. now he loves his crate, gets in all the time.

as for the day time problems. i see no other solution, than putting her in during the day more often. remove the blanket and have a potty break before.

 

[musicdeb]

How old is Hilda? You've only had her six weeks and you rescued her, why would she not have separation anxiety? What kind of mastiff?

Are you able to close her off in a room when you are gone? Are you able to place the crate in your bedroom because mastiffs need to be near their family?

It takes a rehomed dog 8-12 months to fully trust you. She may still be stressed from the change in environment. You're stressing out more by placing her where she does not want to be.

You have to make the crate an enjoyable place. Placing the crate in your bedroom or in the hall next to your door would help her to realize the crate is not so bad.

I'm sorry to say, but this behavior is going to take some time to resolve. When you leave the house, do not make a big deal about you leaving. When you return, do the same. Make her sit before she's allowed to greet you and you allow her to greet you.

When she does well in the crate, reward her with a motivational reward.

Remain consistent in the the crate training with motivational rewards, have lots of patience and do not let the pup feel your frustration. Mastiffs can feel your emotions, when you become frustrated with them, they will shut down and stop listening. Mastiffs can feel your anxiety, when you become anxious, walk away and take some deep breaths.

Keep us posted on her progress. I'm curious of her age and breed.

 

[musicdeb]

I'm interested in the feedback on this. We have been crate training Keeva since we brought her home at 8 weeks. During the day she will go into her crate when led over and told "go to bed" but immediately after door is closed she starts whining and howling and clawing at the crate bed(she has crate blankets but will shove them to the side). Now at night she doesn't do this. It just doesn't seem as she sees her crate as her "safe spot" it's more like during the day she thinks she's being punished and I have never used it as a punishment or put her in after being scolded. She will also pee as soon as she's put in during the day only. I feel your pain Hilda maybe someone here can help us.

How long have you had Keeva?

Give her stuffed animals a little bigger than herself so she can cuddle with them. Give her some background noise, like music or tv. Give her mind provoking games, like a kong with frozen yogurt or ice cubes with treats frozen in the middle.

Give her some exercise before placing her in the crate. A tired puppy is a sleepy puppy.

Exercise her about 10 minutes of every month of age. Avoid excessive running, jumping and walking until about 12 months to prevent injury. Is she leash trained?

 

[Kcmam]

We got Keeva at 8 weeks, she is now 13 weeks. The kong with frozen yogurt is her crate treat and she does have a stuffed animal. I'm at home with her all day and like I mentioned it's only during the day when I put her in while doing chores and is always after play time. She really has me stumped. The lady who teaches our class suggested a morrow bone, frozen as her crate treat, thoughts on that? I would think maybe separation anxiety except that I'm constantly back and forth thru the room, or could that be the issue? Like I said I'm just stumped.

 

[DennasMom]

Denna had "crate treats" - things that worked at that age were 12" bully sticks or a stuffed kong. She ONLY got them in the crate - so if she wanted it, she had to go in the crate to get it.

Some other things - in addition to the recommendations above - to try:

For when you're leaving the house - you can try creating a "Binky Toy"
Outlined here: Literature - ACADEMY of CANINE BEHAVIOR

It will help both you and the puppy understand the coming & going are not things for her to get excited about - and will help lower/remove the anxiety about the event.

When you are home, move the crate (if you can) to the space where you are - leave the door off or open, and just occasionally toss treats into the crate - let her investigate, go in, find & eat the treat and come out, all in her own time (ignore her during the whole process). So going in the crate becomes a non-event, and/or one that ends in a tasty treat.

What kind of crate is it? If it's a wire crate, putting a blanket over the back half to make it more "den" like might help. And, during the day somewhere quiet - where you're not passing through all the time - might also help. Could be she wakes up and wants to follow you every time you walk by and keep herself awake anticipating you walking by. Might be worth a try, anyway.

 

[HildaDoglittle]

-when she whines, (cryes, moans, groans, roars, howls, plays the trumpet lol) do not EVER EVER NEVER go over and 'check if she's ok'. never!
never acgnovledge her or let her out while she has a fit. whining get's you nothing.

We NEVER acknowledge her or positively reinforce her whining. But I don't think I can keep doing all nighters because she won't be quiet... I'm curious as to how to "correct" this behavior.

Also, we live in a one bedroom apartment, so there's not a lot of options in terms of moving the crate. Right now we have it outside our bedroom door.

How old is Hilda? You've only had her six weeks and you rescued her, why would she not have separation anxiety? What kind of mastiff?

Are you able to close her off in a room when you are gone? Are you able to place the crate in your bedroom because mastiffs need to be near their family?

The rescue said she was 2 but we think she is probably closer to 1 year old. We don't know about her breed for sure either -- she is definitely mixed with something not mastiff, as she's considerably smaller than a normal breed.

We aren't able to close her in a room because of the vet's orders to keep her crated. She can (and will) destructively chew and eat things in her anxiety.

We don't make a big deal of entrances or exits -- again we understand that's positive reinforcement.

I wonder if her crate is enjoyable. One thing that's odd about it is that it doesn't have a crate tray -- it was given to us for free by the rescue and didn't come with one. Right now we have a bed in there for her, along with her food and water.

Anyway any tips on how to "correct" her acting-out behavior (incessant whining, trying to break free) during this adjustment period are appreciated. We understand it takes time but it is difficult to cope with these things in our day-to-day lives.

 

[krisx]

it depends on temperament of your dog and what you're comfortable with.
taking into consideration she is 13 weeks, water bottle could work well. so could putting a blanket over crate and trowing something with obnoxious noise potential on/near crate.

but if nothing else works and you just want her to stop with the drama already and let you sleep....

always use the same word, like 'quiet'.
say no only once in a normal tone, (this gives her the chance to respond and avoid correction, in time she will learn to respond only to gentle no. that's why is important to say no in a normal tone. dont shout)
that done, get over there:
-tap on her muzzle
-scuff her
-put your two fingers in her neck or flank
-quick jeark on her collar
what ever you decide to use it should be such that it does not hurt her but startles her into blessed silence

-the moment she shuts up say 'quiet', walk away.

rinse&repeat

be consistent, do this every time she is in drama mode. every time the same process. dogs learn best with consistency, repetition.

 

[musicdeb]

We got Keeva at 8 weeks, she is now 13 weeks. The kong with frozen yogurt is her crate treat and she does have a stuffed animal. I'm at home with her all day and like I mentioned it's only during the day when I put her in while doing chores and is always after play time. She really has me stumped. The lady who teaches our class suggested a morrow bone, frozen as her crate treat, thoughts on that? I would think maybe separation anxiety except that I'm constantly back and forth thru the room, or could that be the issue? Like I said I'm just stumped.

Be aware that marrow bones, unless they are bigger than the dogs muzzle, can lodge onto the muzzle. It wouldn't hurt to try a frozen marrow bone. Give Keeva more time. Praise her and reward her when she goes into the crate and remains calm. Teach her "calm" I've trained Titan "calm" for after he eats so he doesn't do the zoomies.

 

[musicdeb]

We NEVER acknowledge her or positively reinforce her whining. But I don't think I can keep doing all nighters because she won't be quiet... I'm curious as to how to "correct" this behavior.

Also, we live in a one bedroom apartment, so there's not a lot of options in terms of moving the crate. Right now we have it outside our bedroom door.



The rescue said she was 2 but we think she is probably closer to 1 year old. We don't know about her breed for sure either -- she is definitely mixed with something not mastiff, as she's considerably smaller than a normal breed.

We aren't able to close her in a room because of the vet's orders to keep her crated. She can (and will) destructively chew and eat things in her anxiety.

We don't make a big deal of entrances or exits -- again we understand that's positive reinforcement.

I wonder if her crate is enjoyable. One thing that's odd about it is that it doesn't have a crate tray -- it was given to us for free by the rescue and didn't come with one. Right now we have a bed in there for her, along with her food and water.

Anyway any tips on how to "correct" her acting-out behavior (incessant whining, trying to break free) during this adjustment period are appreciated. We understand it takes time but it is difficult to cope with these things in our day-to-day lives.

Ask the vet if he can recommend a calming solution for her, such as a dog prozac or check for a natural remedy. There have been a number of posts about a natural remedy to the dog's stress. Unfortunately, a rehomed dog takes a bit to get used to you and relax in their new environment.

Do you know her history? Maybe she was crated as punishment?

IMO, tapping or smacking the dog in the muzzle will cause more harm than good inciting fear into the dog which this dog already has fear.

Do things with her to bond with her, i.e. training, walking, brushing her, feeding her by hand, cuddling with her, and just plain old sitting with her.

She needs to bond with you which in turn will ease her fears a bit.

Consistency with training with motivational rewards (find what motivates her, food or toy?) and lots of patience.

 

[krisx]

not necessarily.
from 1-4 you have patience, motivate, bond, try to reassure...etc
from 4-10 you do something about it, and quit being so patient. because some of these things are like self fulfilling prophecies and self reinforcing. if left alone for too long, they become a bad habit.

you have to decide for your self where your no-more-s*** threshold lies.
dogs don't have higher reasoning skills and sometimes need us to show them that they need to cut the drama and be calm&quiet.