Mastiff Aggression - what can I do?

[amcwilson]

My husband and I have a 7 month mastiff mix named Bernie. We have done our very best to socialize him, having gotten him when he was round 5 months old. We had new people over to the house every day the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] 2 weeks we had him – including a small child. He actually lived with children and another dog in his foster home.

A few days after we got him, I was home alone with him and my father came over to see him. He
did a lot of growling at my father. My father kept giving him treats until he calmed down. Flash forward 2 months and for the 2nd time a male came over while I was home alone – a repair guy. Bernie would not stop growling at him, the guy even gave him some treats. Bernie wouldn’t let him walk past the entryway and kept growling so I put him in the back yard. I figure he is very protective of me, doesn’t like strange males coming in the house when my husband isn’t home – not that bad of a thing.

This past weekend we brought him up to my parents cabin – there were 17 of us total and 4 additional dogs. Bernie did great with everyone there – and all of the other dogs. He greeted each couple that arrived at the driveway, no problem. Then he was in the front (lakeside) with all of the dogs running around when he noticed one of the neighbors out a few houses down. He ran over there as fast as he could, stopped 2 ft short of the guy and started barking ferociously. The neighbor guy just froze – I think Bernie would have bit him if I didn’t get there to grab him. He did this 2 other times – once to the guys wife – and once to a group of children! At that point I tied him up. The rope came loose when a neighbor kid was walking through the yard and Bernie charged him as well – stopping 2 ft short and barking ferociously once again. He would bark like crazy anytime the children would pass through our yard and anytime he saw some of the neighbors in their own yards. My husband even brought him over to meet the children on leash and he would not let his guard down. He has met children before and done just fine.

My thought was he doesn’t like the people he saw lakeside from afar and feels protective and the need to guard. I tested this theory when my cousin arrived on our 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] day there and brought him and his girlfriend lakeside where Bernie was tied up from the driveway and Bernie was fine with them.

We need to know what we can do about the neighbors – we don’t want him biting anyone and want to find a way to stop the behavior rather than avoiding the circumstance by keeping him chained up all the time. I know this is a very sensitive issue – and if we correct him at the wrong time he will simply stop growling and barking before he bites. My thought is to have them come over from the driveway – or I’m hoping it’s just random strange puppy behavior but would love any advice anyone on here can give. It’s not normal aggression because he only does it in very selective situations.

 

[Jakesmum]

In my opinion the best option is to hire an experienced trainer to evaluate your puppy and determine if it's aggression or being protective and help you to deal with the situation.

 

[LizB]

You'll need to start from scratch in this situation. This could be very dangerous, depending on how quickly you are able to respond and how far he really intends to take it, which you can't know. You'll have to begin from the beginning with training, and that will mean an "umbilical" approach (he is leashed to YOU at all times he is not in his crate) and a "nothing in life is free" method of training. With the use of those two approaches 100% of the time for a few months he will not be given any opportunity to fail you or cause harm to himself or anyone else.

I have some theories, but of course they are out of the blue because I have never seen Bernie and can't pretend to know his life before he came to you.

However, I have a DaneX that behaved almost exactly like what you describe. He would growl at anyone who came over, with giant hackles raised, and growl and bark at children especially, but initially anyone he had not seen before. Nobody could approach him in public. He once got away from me at a park and ran over to a man with a young boy, who were walking away, and he barked and growled at them exactly as you describe, from about 2' away, and I was able to get there in time and get the leash on. He never bit anyone but I have no idea if he would have or not.

What we have is a very insecure and fearful dog. I believe he was either the only pup in the litter, or taken away from his mother/littermates too early (5-7 weeks or even younger). In our case, he was also not socialized well up until we got him at 8 months, and he was just afraid of every new experience. EVERY new experience. This was in July of last year, and as of about October/November he was almost "cured" of this. Now we can take him anywhere and he allows strangers to pet him, though we never allow people just to walk up and start touching him - we will always be cautious.

Our boy needed confidence and routine and to get comfortable in our home and with his situation. A very regular daily life is very important, or it was for him, and following predictable routines built his confidence quite a bit. Regular visits out, with strong warnings to people that he was not to be touched or petted, and reinforcement of positive responses on his part, which meant NOT getting nervous or upset with new things happening or meeting new people.

You have a lot on your hands and it will take a huge commitment on your part, but I think it can be dealt with, assuming he does not have a health issue (thyroid, neurological, pain that you don't know about, etc.).

I know for a fact that many people would have put our Busa down for the behavior he exhibited towards children, but now he ADORES them and they are his favorite type of person to meet. He is friendly and very happy, though you would not want to break into our house, lol! It took quite a bit of work, but it was well worth it, and we now have a pet who is comfortable and much more confident, who can play with other dogs and new people, and I'm so relieved that we were able to realize what his problem was and not give up. He needs leadership and to know the rules and what is expected of him, and the only way to do that is to leash him to you so he must follow you everywhere you go and take cues from your actions. This method has worked for me time and time again and I'm very much a fan. It is a huge pain in the neck, especially with a large dog, but I use it for any new dog to me, and definitely with young pups. Dogs are confident when they know who is in charge (preferably not them) and when they know how their day will go and what to expect.

Obedience classes will help too, since they are so structured. Sometimes Busa could not participate in his obedience classes, shaking fearfully or growling at another handler, but we stuck it out and kept coming back. We now bring him back and the instructors are astonished at how relaxed and friendly he is - they can't believe it is the same dog. I'm sure you can get the same results with your Bernie, assuming fearful aggression is the cause.

 

[Rio]

Re: Mastiff Aggression?

i would be very carefull and not take any more changes .


I believe you have a guarding dog , and you should train for control when he is under your command and provide safety for everyone not doing you harm , whenn he is not .

Just my two cents .

 

[musicdeb]

IN MY OPINION, he needs a positive reinforcement trainer so you can learn to handle the situation. He's doing his job and dogs will know if someone is not right. Trust your dog's instincts because he was fine with everyone else at the house with lots of people. Until you have found a trainer to help you with this behavior, I would recommend using a muzzle and also learning your dogs body language so that you will know when he's getting ready to do what he does. He is young at seven months and he needs training to know to look to you when he thinks something is not right instead of just charging ahead.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DennasMom]

I agree with LizB and Deb.

He's young, you've only had him 2 months, and you don't know what traumas he may have suffered at the hands of strangers prior to coming home with you.

Also - if he was scared, growly or in protection-mode while taking treats from the repair guy... you were rewarding and reinforcing that behavior. That he took treats is good, in a way, that shows he wasn't in full-blown defense mode... but you might want to talk to a trainer and get a first-hand evaluation with some suggestions on how to handle these situations.

And, I think you need to take LizB's advice - put him on a NILF plan and keep him attached to YOU at all times for a few months, at least. He's still learning his role in your family - and he's entering another testing age, where he'll be pushing to be more of a protector and leader (unless you let him know that's YOUR job, in no uncertain terms).

I'd be enrolling in some obedience classes, or if you've done those already, maybe some other 'work' classes (scent work, agility, etc.). Something you can do together to reinforce bonding and working together - and get him looking to you as the leader more often.

 

[amcwilson]

My husband and I have a 7 month mastiff mix named Bernie. We have done our very best to socialize him, having gotten him when he was round 5 months old. We had new people over to the house every day the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] 2 weeks we had him – including a small child. He actually lived with children and another dog in his foster home.

A few days after we got him, I was home alone with him and my father came over to see him. He
did a lot of growling at my father. My father kept giving him treats until he calmed down. Flash forward 2 months and for the 2nd time a male came over while I was home alone – a repair guy. Bernie would not stop growling at him, the guy even gave him some treats. Bernie wouldn’t let him walk past the entryway and kept growling so I put him in the back yard. I figure he is very protective of me, doesn’t like strange males coming in the house when my husband isn’t home – not that bad of a thing.

This past weekend we brought him up to my parents cabin – there were 17 of us total and 4 additional dogs. Bernie did great with everyone there – and all of the other dogs. He greeted each couple that arrived at the driveway, no problem. Then he was in the front (lakeside) with all of the dogs running around when he noticed one of the neighbors out a few houses down. He ran over there as fast as he could, stopped 2 ft short of the guy and started barking ferociously. The neighbor guy just froze – I think Bernie would have bit him if I didn’t get there to grab him. He did this 2 other times – once to the guys wife – and once to a group of children! At that point I tied him up. The rope came loose when a neighbor kid was walking through the yard and Bernie charged him as well – stopping 2 ft short and barking ferociously once again. He would bark like crazy anytime the children would p$#@! through our yard and anytime he saw some of the neighbors in their own yards. My husband even brought him over to meet the children on leash and he would not let his guard down. He has met children before and done just fine.

My thought was he doesn’t like the people he saw lakeside from afar and feels protective and the need to guard. I tested this theory when my cousin arrived on our 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] day there and brought him and his girlfriend lakeside where Bernie was tied up from the driveway and Bernie was fine with them.

We need to know what we can do about the neighbors – we don’t want him biting anyone and want to find a way to stop the behavior rather than avoiding the circumstance by keeping him chained up all the time. I know this is a very sensitive issue – and if we correct him at the wrong time he will simply stop growling and barking before he bites. My thought is to have them come over from the driveway – or I’m hoping it’s just random strange puppy behavior but would love any advice anyone on here can give. It’s not normal aggression because he only does it in very selective situations.

Thank you so much everyone. He is already on the NILF training and is enrolled in obedience class. I plan on talking to our teacher in our next class.

The strange thing is I've taken him to places like PetsMart and he was very friendly one day, and the next time nobody could pet him. We also take him to disc golf courses quite often and he goes right up to ppl to be pet friendly as can be. I even hand them the leash so he gets used to strangers being in control. His guarding is so inconsistent. And definitely only happens with me when my husband isn't there. I'm working on sending calm confident assertive vibes his way.

He started out leash aggressive to all people and dogs and he has come a long way with that. I'm so happy nobody said he was a lost cause. I first posted to yahoo answers and I can't tell you how many people said I wasn't fit to be a dog owner and he either needs to be put down as his aggressiveness is in his nature since he is so young or rehome him. I would never do that.

Thanks for the support and advice! Definitely will keep him tied to me when up at the lake!

 

[amcwilson]

Sorry, learning how to properly reply to a thread, didn't mean to quote my own post above.

We were also thinking of taking him to a fancy dog daycare every now and then to socialize him with strangers more. Good or bad idea? They of course will do an evaluation to see if he is a good fit before they accept him.

 

[musicdeb]

Until his behavior is modified or until you learn his body language (to pass onto doggie daycare personnel), I would refrain from doggy daycare.

Continue to socialize him in a controlled environment, i.e. training.

Consistency in training with motivational rewards, LOTS of patience and avoiding your frustration is key to training the pup.

 

[DennasMom]

And definitely only happens with me when my husband isn't there.

THIS is an interesting observation...

He may feel you need protecting. He may be resource guarding YOU. I'd talk to some trainers about that, and see if they agree... that will take some work on your part to be confident and assertive, stepping in to situations so Bernie doesn't have to, and get Bernie to start looking to you more for direction.

It will be a process, for sure... but well worth the journey.

If you can find the RIGHT daycare, I might say it'd be ok, and maybe even a good idea... just once a week or less... but, you need a daycare with Trainers on staff doing the introductions and supervision. We have one near us (N. Seattle area) that I would trust with that evaluation. But that's one out of about 15 in the area...

It sounds like he might just need more time to adjust and learn to trust and respect you as his new pack leadership... so, back to the regular players: time, consistency and patience...

 

[Cyndnelson]

LizB, what is the point of the Umbilical Cord training? I read the theory behind it, but don't get it's purpose in this situation.

 

[LizB]

Cyndelson, umbilical approach simplifies the dog's life. This is important in the early stages of life but also to redirect a dog that has undesirable behavior. It does not give the dog any opportunity to do something wrong. Every time you get up to go get something in another room, the dog must follow- no choice. You start to pick up on the early cues of your dog that you otherwise might miss (uh oh, he just got tense there, and now I see that progresses to the aggressive posture that I'm trying to break him of....), and he learns YOUR cues as well, and starts to get what you want from him.

This is great for potty training, keeping them from getting into mischief while your back is turned, and also bonding you to the dog permanently. When the dog has unpredictable behavior, eliminate those situations by always having the dog linked to you so you can nip it in the bud.

For a dog like Bernie, I would not be going to dog parks and handing him over to others to hold his leash. I'd keep his life very simple and basic, the whole no touch, no talk, no eye contact thing, and expose him to the same limited exposures over and over until he's rock solid, then slowly introduce new things and small freedoms after he's earned it. JMO based on experience.

 

[joshuagough]

It's to build the foundation from which the dog learns, it's relationship with you. Without it just like a house, no foundation equals cracks in everything there after.

LizB, what is the point of the Umbilical Cord training? I read the theory behind it, but don't get it's purpose in this situation.

 

[Rio]

interesting method this umbilical cordtraining , i never heard of it before . It seems to be a rather demanding method , but i can imagine it will work perfectly.

 

[LizB]

Rio, it is somewhat demanding, but at the same time it is reassuring, because if you have a dog with behavior issues you are more confident, because they aren't ever out of your sight, running up to someone and ignoring your commands, chewing on your cell phone, peeing on the carpet, etc. because you are right there and can guide every reaction and control every situation.

The way I learned about it was I had a 4-month old BM, my first big dog, and a 5-year-old mutt that was very dominant. The BM chose to follow the cues of our other dog rather than follow our cues - very frustrating! Someone suggested this method and it worked like a charm. The BM was at least 50 pounds by then and a dead weight when he was asleep and I chose to get up and leave the room, but I'd just keep walking and this taught him to be alert to my movements and my cues, even when he was asleep.

I'd use it for any new dog, and for a dog that has any behaviors you don't like. Like joshuagough says, it builds a foundation that is important to how your dog fits into your family life, and it gives them confidence to know what is expected of them.

 

[amcwilson]

THIS is an interesting observation...

He may feel you need protecting. He may be resource guarding YOU. I'd talk to some trainers about that, and see if they agree... that will take some work on your part to be confident and $#@!ertive, stepping in to situations so Bernie doesn't have to, and get Bernie to start looking to you more for direction.

It will be a process, for sure... but well worth the journey.

If you can find the RIGHT daycare, I might say it'd be ok, and maybe even a good idea... just once a week or less... but, you need a daycare with Trainers on staff doing the introductions and supervision. We have one near us (N. Seattle area) that I would trust with that evaluation. But that's one out of about 15 in the area...

It sounds like he might just need more time to adjust and learn to trust and respect you as his new pack leadership... so, back to the regular players: time, consistency and patience...

We did end up bringing him to a very reputable dog daycare in our area - it's called Adogo. In their words, he did FANTASTIC! He was shy at first with the people - but warmed up and played all day with the other dogs!

 

[amcwilson]

For a dog like Bernie, I would not be going to dog parks and handing him over to others to hold his leash. I'd keep his life very simple and basic, the whole no touch, no talk, no eye contact thing, and expose him to the same limited exposures over and over until he's rock solid, then slowly introduce new things and small freedoms after he's earned it. JMO based on experience.

Was able to try the whole "no touch, no talk, no eye contact" thing this weekend with some guests and it went very well. Will definitely continue this. Great advice!

Also - love the NILF training. Finally got my husband on board with this. Was hard for him to ignore the dog when he first got home. Bernie always jumps on us when we he first sees us. I just turn my back and cross my arms and he stops immediately. I make him sit before I pet him - I've been doing this all along. But my husband could not see that him telling the dog no and pushing him down was only making him jump more. Finally got him on board now and this method works wonders!

 

[amcwilson]

OK - so I've posted that NILF is going great. "No touch, no talk, no eye contact" is working well too.

We walk Bernie a couple times a day and I've gotten really good at correcting him the moment he tenses up if we see people or other dogs. He is to the point where i almost never need to do this with people (we started this about a month and a half ago). Other dogs is still tough - but I make him sit and focus on me when these situations arise - and usually before he even gets to react to them. Then I treat him for focusing and we move on.

However - we can see that he does not like children. He always tenses up and wants to bark when we come across them. He has been around my husbands young cousins once and did fine - was a little tense but no growling or anything. We don't see these kids often though. Any tips for breaking this aversion to children before it's too late? We don't have any friends we see regularly with kids. The kids at our cabin are already afraid of him so I think he will sense that and that won't go well.

 

[Rio]

Thanks for your explanation LizB , most interesting .

 

[Rugers-Kris]

In my opinion, umbilical cord training should be happening with every puppy/dog when they are brought home. I have always leashed mine to me as to keep an eye on them and accomplish potty training and in the meantime your pup is totally bonding with you and you are learning each others every nuance which is very important. I brought Ruger home at 6 weeks and leashed him for some time to keep an eye on him. Not only did he house trin much faster than most puppies, all other things came quickly as well. He is over 2 years old now and he still follows me everywhere I go because he wants to and although 220 pounds of dog walking in and out of closets and small areas with you can be challenging, it is fantastic, at least IMO

Please be careful around children. Some dogs just don't do well with them regardless of how much you try. You should continue to expose him and train accordingly, however, always safely, taking no chances at all.