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New Protective behavior in 9 month old puppy

heysharon

Active Member
This is a long post. Bear with me--I want to be sure I do the right thing, because we can't afford another family tragedy like our family experienced four months ago when we lost our 2 year old GSD, Soldier. Soldier bit a 12 year old kid (while on leash), with no warning (and I was always attuned to body language). Soldier had never shown aggression or fear toward people before. He was DA and had bitten a dog previously--they counted that against him so he didn't get a second chance, they made us euthanize him. I cannot let this happen to Decker.

We brought Decker home two months ago. He's now 9 months old. DNA says he's a lab/cane corso/bullmastiff/Tibetan mastiff mix. To most people, he looks like a gigantic lab--he has a lab head and loves water, but I could see a guardian temperament in him right away. When we first brought him home, I would occasionally see him behave cautiously around certain suspicious strangers. Sometimes he would react fearfully, tucking his tail and hurrying toward me. I just continue on with confidence to show him all is well. I take him to Petsmart, public places, and he's happy and relaxed. He's sweet and friendly toward people who solicit his attention, but he doesn't seek attention from strangers.

Yesterday, I took the dogs on a hike with a friend and our kids at a nature park. When we got to the river, there was a dude sitting down on a rock minding his business. For a half hour, Decker just played with the kids in the water and ignored the guy, although the dude was strange enough for my 7 year old to ask me if he was homeless. Then dude picked up a stick. Decker stopped playing and just watched him. Other mom and I were watching him too, by now. Then we relaxed a bit for a few minutes, then dude stood up with this big stick, while talking to himself, and Decker's hair went up and he started barking. I said "Decker, wait" and walked over and snapped the leash onto his flat collar. Then he bounced up and down at the end of the leash, barking while the guy walked by with the stick, muttering to himself. Decker weighs over 90 pounds--if he wanted to drag me, he could, but he didn't. And I didn't hush him, because dude was making other mom and me a little nervous and I was pleased that Decker was a deterrent. Then last night I was walking home from a friend’s house after dark, and one of her neighbors (whom we've never met) was in his driveway talking on the phone. Decker's hair went up and he started barking. I told him, "it's fine," and just started walking away, but I had to pop his collar a few times and pull him, saying, "let's go." He's definitely jumpier at night. Then today, on our morning dog walk on a path through a wooded area, a clean cut man in his late 30's approached from behind us, walking fast and tall, wearing earbuds. Exercising, I presume. Decker was behind me, but scurried to catch up, looking behind him fearfully. I leashed him and commanded him to sit, along with my Brittany dog, telling him "it's fine" in a no nonsense tone. We let the man pass. We followed about 15 feet behind, and once out of the wooded area near some houses where the guy was turning off, I called ahead and asked the guy if he would mind giving Decker a treat. He said "sure" and we approached with Decker on leash. I gave the man the treat, but he was a big man, and he bent over to offer the treat. Decker said hell no, and backed up rapidly. I cautioned the guy not to lean over, but Decker wouldn't take the treat from him, so I asked him to drop it, and then Decker ate it. I thanked him and we went on our way, with Decker not as anxious.

I should also mention that Decker and I go to dog obedience classes every week with a trainer I've known for years. I will discuss this with her at class tomorrow.

Sharon
Decker, 9 month old "mastador"
Josie, 7 year old Brittany dog

In my heart:
Soldier, GSD
Sassy, Golden Retriever
Ranger, Golden Retriever
 

Glasgowdogtrainer

Well-Known Member
It sounds as if he hasn't been socialised properly with strangers up to 12 weeks old. He is now at the second fear stage of his development and you must take remedial action immediately to try to rectify this. Because of the mix of his breeds, he has a tendency to be naturally wary of strangers. Combined with his lack of socialisation and his bad experience with the homeless man, he could become wary of all men very quickly, which could then lead to wariness of men with women, then women, then women with kids, then kids, then people with dogs, then dogs etc. this can happen very quickly but the sooner you take steps to remedy it the quicker it will happen.

If he is happy wit men approaching him but not touching him, set up a training party. Get all the people you know to come round to your street and wait in your cars. give them all a few pieces of hot dog, salami, cheese etc. Take your boy for a walk. The stooges then walk past and every time they approach him, they toss a few pieces of food and walk by. Get as many people as you can to do this and do this as often as you can. Try to get all shapes and sizes of men, tall, short, big, slight, beards, glasses, sunglasses, umbrellas, hats, different races. Men give a few pieces, women give one piece.

Take him to your local shops with his dinner as often as you can. People approach him, you give him food. This is how he eats his dinner. If people want to stop and chat to you about him, ask them to do so a few feet away and get them to toss tasty treats to him. As he gets better at this, he will approach them and he can take food from their hand. Only do a few pieces at a time. Little and often is the way to go. If you like how he is behaving, tell him he's a good boy. Watch out for him flicking his tongue, yawning, looking away, scratching his ear or shaking his body as if he is shedding water from his coat. All of these, especially the last two are signs he is trying to calm himself and that he's had enough.

Don't worry about him not reacting defensively when you need him to, God forbid. These dogs are so sensitive to our body language and moods that if you ever get scared in the future because of someone you don't like, there is every likelihood he'll pick up on this and act accordingly.

Ask questions if you have any. Good luck

John
www.glasgowdogtrainer.co.uk
 

heysharon

Active Member
Ah-HA, a second fear stage! That makes total sense after reading a few articles on the subject. Explains why he's suddenly gone back to being scared to get in the van, and startling at an object on the table, etc. And now in retrospect, I can see this was the stage Soldier was going through when he became DA. I definitely don't want this to turn into a problem for Decker. After reading John's post, and the articles earlier today, I put a bunch of cooked chicken in a baggy and took Decker to a nearby outdoor shopping center near a liquor store, a grocery store, and a pub. I walked up to tall, short, brown, white, sunglassed, tattooed, pierced, chained, underwear showing, baggy pants wearing, gangster, security gard or conservative guys, handed them a few pieces of chicken and asked them to feed my dog. I left a lot of bewildered dudes in my wake, but they all cooperated. Sometimes Decker happily accepted treats from the hand, sometimes I had to ask them to drop it on the ground. I'll go somewhere else and do it again tomorrow.

Thanks for the advice, John. Anybody else been through this, and how long did it last?

Sharon
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Depends on the dog, some it takes a while, others seem to barely experience it in the first place.

Don't worry about the protective instincts, with that blend he's going to have them plenty. Your goal needs to be to teach him that a large majority of the time, especially in public, the large majority of people are not threats. That this, and that, and whatever other randomness you can come up with is normal and not threatening.

Having said that, your first incident with the homeless guy, while likely part of the current problem, doesn't actually bother me BY IT SELF. He was likely reacting as much to YOU being uncomfortable with the guy as he was to the guy. The problem of course is that now ALL slightly strange guys are a problem. I like John's advice for dealing. However once he becomes a bit more comfortable with guys start not allowing him to take the offered treat till you tell him its ok. You don't want him swinging the other direction and scaring some guy when he barrels up looking for his special treat.

On a side note, if he really IS part TM, 9-10months is about the age when they hit their first breeding season (TM's are a primitive, they have a true breeding season, yes that means more for the girls than the boys, but even the boys get extra horomonal). This may add to his issues if the TM genes are prominent. The protective instincts often kick in bigtime their first season.
 
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heysharon

Active Member
I was surprised at the combination. One parent was pure labrador (certainly believable), the other was a mastiff mix. Cane Corso I can see, but the TM is not visually apparent. Somebody deliberately bred a CC/BM/TM combo? Crazy! But mastiff traits are certainly showing as his behavior is not like any lab I've ever known. I forgot to mention that the rescue league of course neutered him straight away when he was 5 months old. Your dog is beautiful, Ruth.

Sharon
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
I can see someone doing a CC/BM mix...thats exactly the sorta thing someone would do to create a 'bigger better dog'. The TM would qualify as odd though. They're not THAT common first off....I'm not good with genetics so I have no idea how the traits would hold up to the mixing, but with three other short coats I can see where that wouldn't be visible, does his tail curl at all? On the other hand that makes him what? 1/6th TM? So that particular set of quirks isn't likely to be all that strong, or at least noticably different from the rest of that mix. Pure lab....yah, momma got loose when she was in heat and suckered in the neighborhood macho dog, that I can totally see lol.

FYI, where he was neutered so early I'd recommend joint supplements of some kind, or at least 'treats' of chicken feet if you can get them, to help support his joints now.

Apollo's my big beautiful goofy nut....he's currently in goofy guard mode which means "wake from sound sleep, barrel to window barking, realize theres nothing out there and no noises, flop back to sleep, repeat". Not sure if he's dreaming or what but its kinda funny to watch, he's so far repeated three times in the last hour....
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
I can see why you're not surprised that one parent would be pure lab, but yah, if he's 90lbs at 9months he's gonna be a big boy...He looks nice and trim though!
 

heysharon

Active Member
I know, he totally looks like a lab, though he doesn't move like one or act like one. I don't know if this is the appropriate forum for me to solicit advice, since he's a mix, but he was quackin like a duck, so I headed to the pond. :) I've found it valuable advice in any case. Thank you! I will definitely continue to read and learn.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Hey, did you get my response to your message? I swear it took the board an hour to even tell me you'd sent it.....

And no problem, it does sound like the mastiff qualities are currently in the forground, at least for now!
 

heysharon

Active Member
I found it after your post, thanks! Oh, and I forgot to say, I feed him Nupro with his raw diet. This is my butcher's available product, no chicken feet available, though I could ask. Would something else work?
 

Robtouw

Well-Known Member
I keep seeing the word Man in your posts. Does he react the same way to women? Sounds like there is some reason in his history to distrust men, could be an incident in his past history. I have two rescued horses, both were owned by men, both had major trusts issues when I first took them. They were both physically and verbally abused to the point that our vet did not think they could be saved. Neither would allow a man to touch them and it took months of work before my husband could even approach them. Animals have a good memory and are able to apply what they learned to other people. Is is possible that an adult male mistreated him in his past? You may want to try finding a willing unknown male friend to help you restablish that all males are not a threat. With the horses, they would lunge at my hubby and push me away from him in protective behavior, not only keeping him from them but him from me. My app bit the crap out of my husband after 3 months, his bite was treated the same at the hospital as a dog with being reported and investigated. I understand how scary it can be, I was terrified that he would bite other people and he did but the person was a friend and luckily it was not a horrible bite. After months, and months of work he is now much better with people and still shys away from some males, but for the most part stands his ground without harming anyone. It takes alot of work, but is worth the effort. There has to be a trigger...BM's are usually pretty laid back, TM's are owner bonded which could cause some of the protectfulliness, but usually they have to be provoked. I have a friend with a pair of them, they are beautiful and strong. I am not familiar with CC's.
 

heysharon

Active Member
@Robtouw, not most men, just odd people of either sex. I've taken him more places since then, and when people approach him in a natural, laid-back friendly way to pet him, he shows relaxed enjoyment, though he doesn't get excited or solicit attention. Yesterday he got all barky when my neighbor was in his back yard taking pictures of his deck. He knows my neighbor, but the guy is NEVER in his back yard. The only time we see him outside is going to and from his car, which Decker ignores. So Decker thought he had no business back there. Today two moms with strollers and kids trekked through the neighborhood. Decker had never seen them before, so he barked at them until I went out and told him "enough." I am thinking this is just a part of his guarding insticts maturing.
 

bellareea320

Well-Known Member
he's gorgeous. When I look at him I see the lab face but I def. see a Corso body minus the longer hair. Take it slow and alway encourage good behavior. It takes awhile to gain trust and Corso's are very cautious around strangers. Unfortunatley people mostly associate Labs with being friendly and people may approach you more because he looks like a lab. People are very cautious around me with my CC because first off they dont know what she is and she looks alittle intimidating. Good luck! How did you make out with the trainer?