What's new
Mastiff Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Welcome back!

    We decided to spruce things up and fix some things under the hood. If you notice any issues, feel free to contact us as we're sure there are a few things here or there that we might have missed in our upgrade.

Protien amounts in Raw Diet

Mambo

Well-Known Member
I am looking for information on protien levels, needed for a growing pup, I can not find a good dry food that she does well on. I have over the years done raw for down and out rescues but they were Shepherd I cant find and info for Mastiffs... or I should say Mastiff puppies... Mambo is now 6 months at good weight, but last night her stomach was rumbling so bad It woke me up and i layed on the floor with her for a while to make sure she was ok not drastic change in food just stopped mixing Yogart with it oh and I alway soak her food, Third food Iv tried so I give up and Im now looking for proper levels for raw
She is now 76 Lbs, no knuckling, hips are doing much better, i can feel last two ribs easy, She has a waist

---------- Post added at 01:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 PM ----------

*(sp) protein
 

BlackShadowCaneCorso

Super Moderator
Staff member
I have been looking into RAW myself lately and the RAW food providers in my area have some good literature on their site and there is I think an article or excerpt on their site about protein levels and puppies. I emailed her and the owner is actually raising a CO at the moment who is 130lbs on a RAW diet so while you aren't in our area she was more than helpful to me so would probably answer any question you have. We are just evaluating the costs compared to what we are feeding now.

http://www.totallyrawdogfood.com/
 

Marrowshard

Well-Known Member
We fed raw-ish for a while to our BM because she had severe food allergies. She was far from being a puppy but we still tried not to overdo the protein content. With a true raw diet, I believe the idea is to feed a certain quatity of organ meat and bone, which is nutritious but not as protein-heavy as straight muscle. Things like lung, kidney, and other offal. On our modified raw diet, we used fish or chicken but cut it with baked sweet potato. It circumvented Ebony's grain allergies while providing non-protein "filler", carbs, etc. plus it was cheap to buy and easy to keep on hand.
Not sure if that's useful info for you or not, but on Ebony's twitchy tummy and tendency to develop skin problems and allergies, chicken parts/canned fish and baked sweet potato turned out best for us.

~Marrow
 
Our Boerboel has been fed raw for just over 2 years starting at about 1 year. Turns out she is allergic to just about everything but pork: who'd have guessed! She is 135ish pounds.

The best comparison I was given for raw feeing is: a whole chicken is about as good as it gets. A non-commercially enhanced chicken, no salt-water solution or broth, with innards, is roughly 80% meat, 10% bone & 10% organ.

Start with a chicken appropriate to your dogs size x2. So if you have a 100lb dog use this equation:
100 (lbs) x 16 = 1,600 (ounces)
1,600 (ounces) x .02 = 32ounces/2lbs (roughly the amount of food your dog should eat in ounces/lbs per day.)

So in this scenario: buy a 4 lb chicken. Chop it into quarters: no need to be exact just four big chunks. Feed a quarter in the morning & another quarter at night.

That is it! Your dog will be receiving all he/she needs in protein, bone & organ.

We feed strictly pork as "pure" chicken around here is way expensive. She costs us about 1.69 (on average per pound) to eat. Occasionally, she gets patty's or raw tripe
:yuck: from a local place. That's usually only after being particularly good though, as raw tripe stinks to all hell!

Feel free to as away, if I can not answer I can certainly find out!


 

angelbears

Well-Known Member
You do need to add a variety of proteins, unless you have a dog with allergies. While I can't afford as much variety as I would like, we still are able to get pork, turkey, some beef, not alot, chicken, lamb. The pork, turkey and chicken we pay anywhere from .59 to 1.00 a pound. We have been able to keep our cost at an average of 1.00 a pound. Which is very competitive with the cost of premium kibble. BTW, a freezer is almost a must. During Thanksgiving we stocked up on turkeys at .24

The way I was taught was to feed 2 to 3% of their adult weight. My 150 pound fila gets 3 pounds of meat a day.
 

Mambo

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info. everyone, Ive found a nutritionist in my area that is helping as well, so i will keep everyone updated.
 

Little Monster

Well-Known Member
From what I have read, you should never feed raw pork for the same reason people should not eat raw pork - parasites that can have eggs migrate to the brain. Scary stuff! I have always read to not feed raw to puppies and to stick with a complete and balanced dog food that is formulated for puppies until their growth plates are closed then consider switching. It is not necessarily the amount of protein that is the concern but the balance of calcium and phosphorous (most of the calcium comes from bones and most of the phosphorous comes from the meat).Also, vitamin D is of consideration. The body can't use Calcium without Vitamin D. If you are not providing a growing puppy with the correct balance of these you are asking for trouble. Hopefully your nutritionist knows what he/she is talking about. I have spoken with quite a few and I can tell you none of them agreed with each other and some of them were idiots. Unfortunately for the raw community, the raw advocate nutritionists I spoke with were the worst - left a bitter taste in my mouth if you know what I mean. They were so intent on making me switch to a raw diet that I guess they didn't listen to what they are saying. One told me that I shouldn't feed potatoes because potato gluten caused bloat. What??? One guys just started yelling at me and telling me wolves didn't microwave their foods. I've met some doozies.
 

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
You're right about no pork but you absolutely can feed raw to puppies as long as you know what you're doing. The nutritionist I turn to practices what she preaches and feeds her dogs raw and at times kibble. She also never recommends a kibble without having her older dog try it first to see how she does on it.

---------- Post added at 10:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 AM ----------

And to clarify it's the pork bones that can be the problem but I tend to avoid lamb in general. You can feed pork hearts, neckbones and ribs.
 

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
And to clarify it's the pork bones that can be the problem but I tend to avoid lamb in general. You can feed pork hearts, neckbones and ribs.
 

angelbears

Well-Known Member
Little Monster, could you please point me to any literature that states you can't feed raw pork? I have done a ton of research and I have not come across anything that suggest that. I have been feeding raw for over a year and pork is a mainstay in our diets. I'm not trying to be argumentative but if it could be dangerous for my dogs I like to read it and do further research.
 

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
Little Monster, could you please point me to any literature that states you can't feed raw pork? I have done a ton of research and I have not come across anything that suggest that. I have been feeding raw for over a year and pork is a mainstay in our diets. I'm not trying to be argumentative but if it could be dangerous for my dogs I like to read it and do further research.
You're fine :) http://rawfed.com/myths/parasites.html
 

BlackShadowCaneCorso

Super Moderator
Staff member
Wow I am sorry that you have had such bad experiences with the RAW people. I have had the opposite up here and the company that does the raw food in my area has been greatly informative with their articles and papers for me to read. The owner is also in the process of raising her CO on a totally RAW diet which I like, she practices what she advises others and in now way pushed me towards feeding RAW. She answered the questions I asked without forcing anything extra on me. Overall I feel more comfortable after talking with her so it is something we are considering strongly.

From what I have read, you should never feed raw pork for the same reason people should not eat raw pork - parasites that can have eggs migrate to the brain. Scary stuff! I have always read to not feed raw to puppies and to stick with a complete and balanced dog food that is formulated for puppies until their growth plates are closed then consider switching. It is not necessarily the amount of protein that is the concern but the balance of calcium and phosphorous (most of the calcium comes from bones and most of the phosphorous comes from the meat).Also, vitamin D is of consideration. The body can't use Calcium without Vitamin D. If you are not providing a growing puppy with the correct balance of these you are asking for trouble. Hopefully your nutritionist knows what he/she is talking about. I have spoken with quite a few and I can tell you none of them agreed with each other and some of them were idiots. Unfortunately for the raw community, the raw advocate nutritionists I spoke with were the worst - left a bitter taste in my mouth if you know what I mean. They were so intent on making me switch to a raw diet that I guess they didn't listen to what they are saying. One told me that I shouldn't feed potatoes because potato gluten caused bloat. What??? One guys just started yelling at me and telling me wolves didn't microwave their foods. I've met some doozies.
 

bullyBug

Well-Known Member
The B-Naturals website has free newsletters that are a wealth of information: http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/resources-for-nutrition-and-health-problems/

I've fed a dog and two cats raw for almost 12 years, but this is my first time growing a puppy on it. I tend to be pretty flexible with the diet. (Never measuring, making adjustments as I see fit, etc) With a giant breed puppy now it's a different story, and I felt I needed much more structure. The raw I'm doing now is 50% dehydrated raw (The Honest Kitchen) and 50% raw meat and bones. For me, it takes the guess work out of it and gives me peace of mind. I plan to phase out THK when he's around a year old.
 

Little Monster

Well-Known Member
To be honest, I don't remember where I read it, it was just one of those things that stuck out in my mind - but here is some literature on it (brace yourself, it's kinda boring):
http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets/pdfs/taenia.pdf
http://www.oie.int/fileadmin/Home/eng/Health_standards/tahm/2.09.05_CYSTICERCOSIS.pdf
The RAW community itself is kinda scary. I just had another bad experience with a guy who owned a pet store. He sold great quality processed foods and was apologizing to me for not having frozen raw meat. I told him it was no big deal because I don't like frozen raw or any raw for that matter. He about chewed my head off! I just left. I feel that a lot of raw feeders are very defensive and even demeaning towards people that don't feed raw (not pointed to you at all angelbears!) especially since I am in the minority with feeding cooked foods to my dogs. He was abrupt and rude and I was being friendly and chipper (I swear!!) I don't feel that it is necessary for me to cook the meat all the way through for my dogs (my cats excluded because one is FIV positive) because I know they can digest the bacteria and I know they shed it more in their stools, but I don't pick up their poop with my bare hands anyways, so no harm there. I would only consider feeding raw meat to my dogs if I had access to free range, organic not processed through a huge factory and dipped in bleach meat. That's the only way I would do it. I cook the meat to get rid of all the contamination we people put in the meat to make it safer. I also work at a vet clinic and see all the bad stuff that happens to dogs fed raw. I can only think of 1 client that feeds her dog raw that didn't get sick from it (pancreatitis, enteritis, obstruction in the stomach, obstruction in the large intestine, broken teeth, etc.) Maybe if this area had a better raw nutritionist people could have someone to turn to for help and guidance and these things wouldn't happen?
 

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
In any community you're going to find people who want to push things, and you're going to find people who want to educate and help others and people who are dead set against whatever that thing may be. It's a personal decision for someone to want to feed raw and I don't think it's fair to condemn someone based on wanting to feed raw. Yea you have your personal opinion, experiences etc but it's not like the raw diet is a new thing and there are millions of people who feed their dogs raw with awesome outcomes. I think this really needs to be an let's agree to disagree kind of thing. I'm sure Christina and Mary both will only feed raw when they feel ready to do so and I'm sure professionals will be consulted in doing so. Many of the problems you mentioned happen when people don't know how to correctly feed raw or just wing it rather than researching and transitioning into it.