Some questions

Discussion in 'Raw Food Diets' started by JamieHalverson, Jul 10, 2016.

  1. JamieHalverson

    JamieHalverson Active Member

    Seems like I constantly have questions as we continue with raw. Now that they've been on raw for about a month and the grinds have worked really well, I'm ready to start branching out into some more rmb and such. I found chicken quarters on sale for 59 cents a pound so I bought 30 pounds. I know that's a little too high bone ratio, so I need to add a little more meat, but I'm kind of stumped as to how to figure out how much meat to add? I'm so bad at working out ratios and percentages... I figure if I throw a few ounces of boneless breast or hamburger in with it that should be good. <p><p>So a couple other things, I have been told to try to avoid grocery store meats as they've been enhanced and generally have too much sodium. A good rule of thumb is no more than 4% sodium per 4 oz. serving. I haven't been able to find any literature with that info, but does that sound like a good guideline? <p><p>Since I grabbed all that chicken I also decided to see if Lillie is allergic to real chicken and gave her a big quarter, she seems fine today with no new breakouts so we'll stick with the chicken for a few days and see what happens. I am so thrilled though, that will make life so much easier (and cheaper) if she can eat chicken!<p><p>I've also added some eggs, but I read that you shouldn't feed dogs eggs from the grocery store either as the shells are treated with chemicals and wax and you should buy farm fresh eggs... Is this for real? I don't buy farm fresh eggs for the people in my house, is it good enough to just wash the shells before I feed them to the dogs?
  2. JamieHalverson

    JamieHalverson Active Member

    Oh jeez, so now the coded paragraph breaks don't even work?
  3. JamieHalverson

    JamieHalverson Active Member

    Ok, couple more... Supplements, what do you give and why? Currently I only give fish oil. Bone broth and blood are some things I see on the suppliers sites. How much bone broth and how often do you feed and why, and why would just straight blood be something people feed?
  4. Iulicris88

    Iulicris88 Active Member

    Try this:
    Bone Percentages in Raw Meaty Bones (RMB)
    So, aparently a chicken quarter has 30% percent bone. If you want to bring the whole meal down to 10 % bone content, for example, you need to add 200 g raw meat, if you want to bring it down to 5%, you add 500 g raw meat, for every 100 g chicken quarter.
    I find it weird though that the meat in the grocery stores in the US has crap injected into it. Here it's clean, but it also doesn't go below the equivalent of 3-4 dollars/kg for quarters and 4- 6 dollars/kg for breast.
  5. TricAP

    TricAP Active Member

    Don't over think it. Best measure of bone to meat ratio is what your dogs poop looks like, good and firm but not too white and chalky - that's too much bone. With each of our dogs its a little different to what works best. I don't do the math just eyeball it. Bone broth we give as treats - freeze it in old fashioned iced cube trays. We don't give an supplements - just switching to raw made such a big difference in our dogs health.. As far as the sodium in store meats just read the labels. There are plenty of inexpensive items that are well under 4%. Glad to hear the switch is going so well for you!
  6. JamieHalverson

    JamieHalverson Active Member

    Yeah, that's the sight I used to find out how much bone was in the quarter, I just couldn't wrap my head around how to figure out how much meat to add to bring it to 10% bone, so thank you! I'm like a 2nd grader with this stuff and working with pounds and ounces makes it even harder, lol.
  7. JamieHalverson

    JamieHalverson Active Member

    Thanks! It's easy to overthink it for sure, especially at first! I thought it was crazy to just carte blanch avoid grocery store products. That super cheap chicken was only 3% sodium so I couldn't pass that up. As much as I love my dogs I'm really not going to spend more feeding them and buy organic/grass fed/farm fresh while my family eats rice a roni and hamburger helper, lol!
  8. NYDDB

    NYDDB Well-Known Member

    What TricAP said. I don't measure, I don't weigh...just eyeball it and soon enough the whole raw feeding thing will be second nature. Poop and body condition will be your best guidelines. :)

    I give bone broth on occasion, and also turmeric (golden paste) most days, due to Mateo's past ccl injury (I also make it for myself.)

    Also, I buy some meat at the grocery, some at a butcher, some I order online.
  9. angelbears

    angelbears Active Member

    I buy almost all my meat at the grocery store. Almost none of it is enhanced. The worst offenders are turkey and pork. Just read the package it has to be clearly stated. The only supplement that I use is a probiotic Carna 4. The way I feed the girls is they get an all meat(no bone) meal in the morning and for dinner they get a drumstick(or something bone in) and a couple of chunks of meat( they are only 60 pounds) I do weigh everything only because I don't eyeball very well. As everyone has said poop is the key.
  10. DennasMom

    DennasMom Well-Known Member

    Ah, math! (I love math)

    Assuming chicken at 30% bone (good overall number): 1lb of chicken =16 oz = 16*0.3 (Bone) + 16*0.7 (meat) = 4.8oz bone + 11.2oz meat
    If you want to lower that to 10% bone: 4.8 oz = 10% or X*10% = 4.8oz; so 4.8/0.1 = 48oz boneless meat to go with it = 3lbs total boneless; 2.3lbs or 37oz more boneless to go with the 1lb of bone-in chicken.

    I put this in a spreadsheet so I could track and plan meals for the week... but, once you get the hang of how much bone works for you dog, you really don't need to measure... you just know when the poops are crumbly chalky before they hit the ground (or if your dog is straining to poop), that you need to reduce the bone and/or feed a meal or two boneless. If the poops get soft... add more bone. :)

    What I do, is feed one dinner as bone-in, then do the next dinner boneless, so over a few days it all evens out to about 10%.

    I also do a lot of grocery store (Costco) meats (lots of pork, some beef, still not feeding chicken here). But I also watch sodium; <100mg per 4oz serving (about 3.5%).

    Eggs... most times I'll rinse them, but I don't currently have access to farm fresh eggs.
    The grocery store eggs are washed and probably bleached (sanitized). But I figure a fresh bleached & rinsed egg is better than no egg at all.
  11. DennasMom

    DennasMom Well-Known Member

    Oh... and the <p> isn't working anymore because YOU DON'T NEED IT ANYMORE!!!! :) :) :)
    Real, actual paragraph breaks are working again!!! YIPPEEE!!!!
  12. DennasMom

    DennasMom Well-Known Member

    Supplements.... we add in a probiotic/enzyme/micronutrient supplement with breakfast, just for fun. It was Nupro Silver for a long time, and now we're in between purchases of that big bucket, so we've been filling in with "missing link". We add a cup or so of water to her breakfast (which is mostly ground stuff... beef, tripe and organs), and the Nupro/Missing Link makes a nice gravy. Probably not needed, but we only give her a half-dose to fill in any vitamins and minerals that might be low.

    Denna also had kennel cough a few weeks ago, and I read that coconut oil and slippery elm bark were good for supporting her recovery... so we added that in when she was coughing (which was only about 3 days). Her skin got a lot better with the daily coconut oil, so we're trying to keep up with that. Just 1T with breakfast seems to make a difference.

    I also feed a lot of fresh/frozen sardines for her omega-3's.

    I make bone broth for me (I like soup for lunch) - and anytime the broth-cubes are out of the freezer, she gets a few as treats. But, since she eats whole bone, I don't figure there's much in bone broth that she's not already getting.

    I've also read a few studies on the benefits of veggies, especially greens, so she gets some veggies in her dish randomly - not counted toward her meal weight or calories. They act more like a poop-bulking agent than anything, but I figure it can't hurt to clear the colon every once and a while, too. HA!
  13. cj-sharpy

    cj-sharpy Member

    Agree with TriCap.
    The best way to work out ratios is to look at it and have a guess.
    "Yeah that looks about right" is what you are aiming for haha.
    Also ratios can be worked out over a week so one bone heavy meal won't do any harm just feed less or no bone the next day.
    As said its all about the poo.
    The only rule regarding ratios that is hard and fast and set in stone in my mind is the amount of organ meat. And that's only because of the "consequences".

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  14. NYDDB

    NYDDB Well-Known Member

    Remember, "Balance over time." That will be your mantra, okay? :)

    I will add in a kind of scary experience here, because it's kind of raw related...and also speaks to the organ meat issue mentioned by cj-sharpy.

    So, for a few days last week, Mateo was not pooping very much. As in, a few little nuggets and nothing more. For 3 days. I was a little concerned, so added in some fatttier meats, and cut down the bone. Still....nothing.

    Day 3-- he started straining to poop, many times during our walk, with no results. I cut back on his food, worried about things backing up and causing even more of an issue. That evening, he was straining and straining...and nothing. Uh oh... now what is going on here.

    That night, he was panting, restless, wanting to go out. So we did- straining to poop, but nothing. All night, every hour, same thing. Then he vomited. Over and over. Like, projectile vomiting. At 3:30 in the morning.

    Of course, I started to panic, thinking he had some sort of blockage. But from what? He never is interested in picking up things, even food if it's on the ground, or floor...But, yeah, I was worried.

    So, when we came back in for the 4th time out, at 4:30 AM, I texted my holistic doctor (also naturalistic dog person who feeds raw) who lives on the west coast, just to get her opinion (I already was going to take him to my vet as soon as they opened.) She asked if he was still in distress- I said no, he was (finally) sleeping, and calm. Anyway, in the course of her questions, she asked if he was fed anything out of the ordinary. No, I said, except for treats-- I had been feeding him cheese because I ran out of the other treats I had been using (dehydrated beef.)

    Well, duh! Cheese is constipating. Oops. And because it had been so hot here lately, I was doing more training with him inside, using lots of treats (cheese!)

    She said to feed him some liver, as well as some slippery elm if he will eat. He did eat--about an ounce of liver, (handful), plus some slippery elm. (And I stopped the cheese..)

    Well. Guess what? By evening, he finally opened up--- and was finally "unplugged"--- relief!

    By the next morning, everything was back to normal: smooth, solid bowel movements. :)

    So, sometimes, it really is a simple fix-- don't mess with non-"dog" food- especially be careful with cheese! Seriously, that's all it took to throw my big mastiff into a big intestinal mess...

    To be honest- I was soooo close to running him up to the 24 hour emergency vet's place at 4 am...because I was so worried about him. Thank goodness I called my friend- and saved me thousands, I have no doubt...

    And yes! Liver (or any organ meat) will, for sure, loosen things up...
  15. JamieHalverson

    JamieHalverson Active Member

    Whoa! Thank you all for the great info! I'm definitely getting better at eyeballing, but still weigh everything out just to make sure. I don't add any fruits or veggies to their meals, but I do toss them scraps/peels/extras as I'm cooking as I've read a bit about that as well. I've always given coconut oil and added fish oil as well, I may have to back off the chicken with Lillie, I thought she was doing good with it but she came up with a raging ear infection last night and still has some breakouts. Bummer.

    Thanks NYDDB for the liver hint. I noticed that Yogi seems to have a stomach that's a bit more sensitive. After having dried liver training treats at class on Monday he got the runs. Good point on using it to fix constipation!

    Glad grocery store food is fine; lots of good buys to be found, there! And they sure like their eggs, something fun to eat.
  16. BAMCB

    BAMCB Member

    So I'm really late to the conversation but I thought I'd add what we do. As for meat/bone ratios I also watch their poo. Sonny needs a lot more bone than Chica and Ava needs even less. I do still weigh their meals for a guideline. I keep the scale at our feeding station and just set their bowls on it while filling them up, mostly to keep the girls' weights in check. I already have their organ mixture ground up and frozen into meatballs so very easy top just toss on top. As for supplements I add a probiotic, cranberry supplement, bone broth with grass fed beef gelatin and coconut oil(this I use for pills) and turmeric paste(which turns out to be GREAT for Chica's diabetes!). I am going to order more supplements but waiting until I need some of mine to save on shipping. I do source farm fresh eggs from a friend who raises chickens and the pups love them.

    As for store bought meats that come in solution I stick to under 4% and then soak them in water for minimum of 1 hr(depending on how my day is going it has been up to a few hours).

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