Update on Bear the Great Dane

[karennj]

So I have been having some good days and some bad days with Bear. We pretty much hit bottom last Friday when I was watching my friends 1.5yr old daughter. I had Bear on leash working on keeping him calm from a distance from the kids. I was sitting on the opposite side of the room where the youngest were playing and he was on leash sitting in front of me. My oldest son was a few feet to my right and Bear was sort of facing the space in between us with his back to the younger kids. I was petting his chest as he sat and all the sudden he growled. I have never heard him growl at people before. He does a warning growl to my girl when he is resource guarding something but he never guards his stuff from people. It really startled me and I quickly walked him out of the room into the hallway where he was still able to see everyone but a farther distance away. He seemed relaxed so I had no idea what prompted it. I am pretty sure it was not me. I don't believe it was my older son who was closest because he was not moving (he had 2 soft things in his hands and was kind of banging them together. The 2 little kids were behind him and making noise but nothing crazy. He was facing the TV which was off so I wasn't sure if he saw the movement in the reflection and that started it. My dog was not in the room so I really have no idea what he growled at. Anyway, that was it and I decided I was done. I emailed the breeder letting her know I would try to find a no kid home for him and if I couldn't I was bringing him back after Christmas.

Well, the next couple days I have been watching him like a hawk. I bought a basket muzzle and it arrived today. I got it on him and he was fighting with it and looked absolutely miserable. I started to get upset that he was having such a hard time and just with the whole situation. He managed to get the muzzle off (yea, that thing is garbage) and once he took a minute he was being really good! The kids were being absolutely wild and he was sitting by me on leash but not going nuts with the chaos. I had meatloaf for dinner so I had the kids call him, make him sit and give him a little piece. I took turns picking up all the kids and he would immediately sit waiting for his treat instead of going nuts charging and barking. I have been working on this a lot and he is SOOOO much better. While the kids were playing he was being playful, not pushy so I let them play a bit. The kids ended up playing fetch with him for awhile. When they saw me throwing him the toy they thought it looked like fun and were interested in him. Even my other dog got in on the action playing tug with Bear. He was focused on the toy and not my kids which is a huge improvement from the start of last week. He was sooooo much better today because instead of the kids trying to get away from him, they were interacting with him. It went really well until he lost interest in his toy and thought my daughter would make a better one and mouthed her which made her cry. He did not leave any marks and I saw the whole thing, it was totally play. If I could just teach him to not use his mouth they would not be afraid to play with him. I guess once he loses interest in his toy and the kids start ignoring him, I really need to be on top of him

He definitely has 2 different reactions to the kids. One is totally play which I saw tonight and it is much less pushy than it used to be. The other is when he is a bit anxious by their behavior and that is the one that concerns me. That is when he approaches them, nose punches and walks away trying to get them to stop doing whatever it is they are doing. If we can have more days like this we may just have hope. Maybe he will just get used to their crying/fighting and won't feel the need to react anymore? The thing I really love, he never bothered my youngest even though he was pretty amped up. Normally he is searching for him when he gets excited.

By the way I have been using a flirt pole with Bear and he LOVES it!!!

Here is a video of him tonight with the kids. I need to work with the kids to not get him all worked up and then tell him "no" when he accepts their play invitation. But, I guess it is good that he listens to them! Makes me smile!
[video=youtube_share;_LK5SOiP6Zw]http://youtu.be/_LK5SOiP6Zw[/video]

 

[teodora]

he's a beautiful pup. Are you sure that the way kids are playing with him is ok?

 

[karennj]

Not exactly sure what you mean? I personally don't like that they are instigating play but then correcting him when he acts on it. Shortly after this video is when I grabbed a toy and they were playing fetch with him (which I did not get on camera as I was playing along). I did talk to them tonight about being engaged with Bear but not acting like prey (crawling around on the floor/running around). I am having them make him sit and then throw the toy so he is not trying to grab at it while they are holding it. I wanted to show everyone who saw he first videos how much better he is at taking correction from them and how he is focused on them but in a more natural way, not like they are prey. The kids are much more relaxed and he was actually being playful not just pushy.

 

[karennj]

By the way, it is really amazing to video tape interactions with your dog and watch it back. You have completely different takes on the situation than when living it in real time!

 

[gwhawk]

The way you describe the play that you didn't film, is a much better way to play with a dog who has a bit of attitude.

Unless they can be confident enough to play with him when he does catch them, they shouldn't be running away from him as a game, especially (as you said) if they are correcting him when he gets there, it gets awfully confusing for him.

I would also recommend never allowing a game with something you don't want him chewing on, as soon as you see him with a sock or other clothing, tell him off and distract with his toy. You don't want him chewing his way through your laundry do you?

Beautiful pup by the way. I hope you persevere with him and keep him!!

 

[teodora]

this is what I meant: he seemed confused. Obviously he just wanted to play: 0:45 -0.50, what was the boy doing? Bear is still a very young dog. It can be confusing and frightening for him as well. I would - and I do - talk to my child to be GENTLE.
The tug-o-war with that sock at 3:33 - he was playing.

 

[gwhawk]

Yeh that tug of war was perfect, just would have been better with one of bear's toys! Keep us updated on his progress, he is such a beautiful puppy.

 

[karennj]

Yes, I am working to make the play more controlled. I let it go a bit to just see how he did as there is a big improvement to before. I have not let him really play with the kids because his play was just out of control. When he first started really acting up he was relentless and if they stopped he would then mouth them like crazy and push them around. Yes, I don't normally let him play with stuff other than toys. I was just so happy to see the kids interacting with him and him being so good so I totally let that one slide! I wanted to keep the momentum going. I did go get his stuffless fox shortly after and they played fetch with that. This is the dog that I know is in there! I wanted everyone to check out his responses to the kids. Yes, he is still a bit excitable but so much better. Did you see that awesome sit for my son? If I can just get him to quit nose punching when he is stressed (as I am afraid it will turn into a bite) then we can actually make this work!

 

[karennj]

By the way, yes, it is not fair to initiate play and then tell him no but he was taking every movement that the kids made as an initiation to play before. They could be banging a toy on the ground (boom, bear is all over them), they could be running to the bathroom (boom, bear was all over them). It is good that he knows now that he can approach but if they say not "no", he will respect it. They are kids in the end and they are going to run, jump, crawl, etc. He needs to understand no is no regardless of what they are doing at the time. The kids will only be doing appropriate play with him going forward now I know I can trust him to self calm.

 

[angelbears]

Perhaps a not so active home would be better for Bear. I think he could go to a home with kids, maybe a little older and not quite so chaotic.

 

[karennj]

I have already considered that and have not ruled it out yet. I actually have a gentleman possibly looking at him this weekend who would be a great home if it doesn't work here (or else he can go back to the breeder). To be fair, the kids are only this wild maybe an hour max total in the day. I am working on scheduling our day better so that I can predict the wild times and handle Bear appropriately. A good schedule is something that we need in this house anyway! Most of the day it is actually pretty quiet here especially since 2 of the kids are at school most of the day.

 

[DennasMom]

Isn't it amazing how the stress drops after you make the decision to rehome them... and then everything starts to click??

I think that video shows a VERY GOOD DOG! He is really trying not to go after the fun, active toys (I mean kids) in the room... but he can only resist so long.

I think your explanations and take on everything are right on target.

I would have redirected him to get his own toy earlier (you may have been delayed due to filming, too)... then have the kids play tug with an approved tug toy, as you said they did later.

Teaching the kids to be relaxed and gentle with Bear will be a good thing for everyone. The kids were very high-energy in the video... and dogs pretty much reflect the energy in the room... so Bear not being right in the middle of things was amazing, if you ask me! I loved the way Bear reacted to the "EH" from your son, and the sit was beautiful.

I'd keep working on the kids providing calm, gentle rewards, so their presence doesn't always mean "GAME ON". That should help them interact on some new levels, too. Just pets and cuddles... maybe see if you can get the kids to read him a bedtime story? We have a "reading with rover" program here that helps teach kids to read - but it would be a good, calm activity for them all to do together, too.

I'd also be talking with the kids when they say they're afraid of him... what is it that frightens them - his size? speed? mouth? Give them some tools to counteract the fear - teach them some commands to give him ("get your toy", "down" and "sit" being good ones), so they have some control and learn they don't need to be afraid (sounds like you're already working this angle, too). He does so well listening to the "no"... if they can ask him to "do" something, that might help everyone out... including Bear, since he'll know what he can do and not just what not to do.

Poor Bear just looks like he needs some love from his kids, and he doesn't know how to get it.

 

[karennj]

I love the idea to have them read to him! We will start that tonight. Today we had game time (we got out a board game while Bear layed next to us and they occasionally would go over and pet him. The kids just had total chaos time / wrestling with daddy so Bear was in his crate in another room. Now we are having movie time and he is back out. We are having more good days than bad now.

 

[karennj]

By the way, I signed up Bear for K9 Nosework and then if all goes well I'll try him at Rally. I thought nosework would be a good team building class for he and I and it would be something the kids can help with (hiding the stuff for us to practice at home).