A whole new set of questions, sorry:(

[BAMCB]

So I've gotten Sonny and Ava on a great routine and doing extremely well. But I am finding a mastiff is a lot different from my smaller dogs.
My main concern are bones. Any and all bones! I've given a chicken back, which she gave back about about 10 min later, almost whole! I've given 2 large raw chewing bones(much too large for the others). The first she about ate the whole dang thing before I got it back(man she was quick!) and the second was well on its way. I've tried a bully horn and she crushed it. I've tried a large bone from a store and she was also eating that up. I am worried about splintering, swallowing whole and just worried in general. Luckily she has not shown much aggression when I've taken them away but she was definitely NOT happy. She also does not eat her food as well as I'd expect seeing that she is underweight and I'm guessing not fed well where she came from. Refused kibble the day she got here so started raw that night. And she nearly left her breakfast untouched today(though she did gnaw on a bone beforehand certainly not enough for a meal). I've been giving chicken(tried a back but only boneless breast now), ground turkey, ground green tripe(small amount) and whole ground chicken both the latter from My Pet Carnivore. She does like turkey tails(use them to bribe her out of the truck) and did eat chicken feet the first time I gave it but only chewed on the second before leaving it.
My second concern is the amount of meat I will need for her. I had found sources and sales, enough to keep raw close to the same cost as a high quality kibble would cost but I think that will be nearly impossible now. I don't want to stop feeding raw so any tips you have to make it more cost effective would greatly be appreciated.

 

[PrinceLorde13]

Hey I don't feed raw so I can't help with a lot of your questions but wanted to tell you it is normal for a dog that was under fed and mistreated for a long time to not have much of an appetite, her body is used to under eating, also not sure if she was raw fed originally but doesn't sound like it from the conditions she came from so that may take time for her to get used to as well, maybe something along the lines of satin balls to help get that belly full and some weight on her. I'm sure some raw feeders will be able to help more.
Also, NEVER be sorry for asking a question you are trying to do what is best for your dog and that is not something to apologize for, you should be proud that you care enough to ask! Heck I'm proud of what you're doing and I don't even know you!

 

[BAMCB]

Hey I don't feed raw so I can't help with a lot of your questions but wanted to tell you it is normal for a dog that was under fed and mistreated for a long time to not have much of an appetite, her body is used to under eating, also not sure if she was raw fed originally but doesn't sound like it from the conditions she came from so that may take time for her to get used to as well, maybe something along the lines of satin balls to help get that belly full and some weight on her. I'm sure some raw feeders will be able to help more.
Also, NEVER be sorry for asking a question you are trying to do what is best for your dog and that is not something to apologize for, you should be proud that you care enough to ask! Heck I'm proud of what you're doing and I don't even know you!

Thank you very much And that makes sense about being use to not eating much.

 

[QY10]

I have found various ways to make feeding raw very cost effective:

1. Game cutters. Around here, hunters take their wild game to game cutters to be butchered into the cuts of meat that they want. I have one game cutter who will give me all of the scrap meat for free because otherwise, it goes into a dumpster.

2. You could speak to different butchers and see if they will give you scraps for fee (or pieces that have fallen on the ground).

3. Buy in bulk from straight from the source.

4. Go to the auction and buy a cow/goat/pig and send it to the butcher. It would be a fair bit of money up front, but over the course of the year would be much cheaper.

5. If you're able, you could raise your own rabbits or chickens for meat.

6. Post ads on Craigslist requesting people's freezer burnt meat, or meat that they just aren't going to eat.

7. Post an ad on hunting groups requesting all freezer burnt/last years meat. A lot of hunters will throw out any left overs from last year to make room for the new seasons meat. I got about 60 pounds of free meat last year from posting one ad.

 

[BAMCB]

Those are some great suggestions QY10! Thanks!

We had another vomit. I am noticing it is when she eats bones. Will it take a while for her system to learn to digest these?

 

[TricAP]

Is it true vomit or regurgitation? Does she gobbler /gulp? - meaning does she swallow big pieces without chewing? Our EM still does this occasionally and then up it comes. Yes he does re-eat it. From reading back thread regurgitation is normal for some dogs when starting raw. Grosses my husband up to no end but the 2nd time he does chew it. We've gotten into the habit of holding his food while he eats it to make sure he takes the time to chew.

Hang in there - she'll get the hang of it.

 

[DennasMom]

It does take a few days for the system to handle the bones, too - especially if she's a gulper and swallows bigger pieces. I like that they come back up versus getting stuck on the way out. (Denna recently pooped out a 3" long piece of pork rib... after being VERY uncomfortable for a few days.)

I've read that adult dogs have WAY less need for bone, and Denna's never done well on the 10% bone recommended (constipated)... so I'm still trying to find her happy-medium level, as she'll eat pretty much anything I put in front of her.

I get ground beef with 10% bone ground in from a local pet food company, which lets me up Denna's bone content without the concerns with big pieces going astray.

If you check out the yahoo group "carnivoreFeed-supplier", you may be able to find a bulk-buying group in your area.

I get lots of stuff from our local bulk-buying group - but it's not always cheap. I have 100lbs of bison and elk coming (for variety), but some of that is close to $4/lb. I average $2.50/lb with some of the cheaper cuts - like the ground beef product from the group and grocery store pork shoulders ($2/lb at Costco, sometimes cheaper at "Cash & Carry")

I would suggest that anytime you take away an item from Ava, that you give her a very high value reward for letting you take it - so you build up a desire to give up stuff to you. Even if it's one bite of freeze dried liver for a dish full of raw meat... at least you "paid" her for the exchange.

Does she enjoy chewing other items - like stuffed kongs?
Our last dog enjoyed "udder-tugs"....
was: Cool Dog Toys and Dog Stuff not found in stores helps animal rescues
now: Lukes All Natural

 

[Liz_M]

It is very normal for some dogs to inhale their food and even swallow entire bones; I wouldn't worry about that. Feeding stuff frozen, holding food while they eat, feeding in a very calm environment so they don't feel threatened and like they must gulp their food down also helps.

Where I live, chicken quarters routinely go on sale for .29/lb, pork for under $1.50 and I can get beef heart by the case for $1.69/lb. Some butchers will sell you cases of meat for just a little over wholesale; you have to go ask.
The craigslist suggestion is good but be aware it is against their TOS to sell fresh/raw food and you may get flagged off.
Definitely put the word out with hunters if you live in an area where people hunt.
Also if you live in such an area, look for processors. You'll need a strong stomach but you can score a LOT of free meat (mostly bones and guts and cow heads) that way.
Independent supermarkets with butchers, get to know them: I have one place that sets aside everything from steaks to hot dogs that have gone past their expiry date and sells cases to me for half price. Another place sells me 40-50 lb cases of saw meat (fatty and boney left-overs) for $10 a case. I throw some of it out but it is still a great deal. I share it with a friend with three large dogs.
"Ethnic" supermarkets (for want of a better term) tend to have meat for very cheap, including oddities like pig testicles and goat chunks. I have email subscriptions to several near me so I get their sales fliers in my inbox. Today I took advantage of .29 chicken quarters and .88 pork neckbones. My freezer is stuffed.

I order some stuff from MPC but it's sort of a game to find cheap or free meat! I do also feed some kibble but I have fed raw for so long (since 1999) that the concept of feeding little preformed commercial pellets very weird.

 

[BAMCB]

Thank you all for the input and ideas. Some I have not tried so will get on that Monday. I just fed her dinner, chicken breast(had a bit of the cartilage from when I broke down the chicken) beef heart and ground green tripe. She did not touch the beef heart(even after I cut it smaller and hand fed) and regurgitated the chicken chunks within 5 min. She then nosed her blankets over it. I usually take out bedding but her footing is not so good without them. I am wondering if ground is the way to go. She seems to not vomit/regurgitate that. I wonder if I could asked my butcher to grind up some mixes like pork butt, chicken breast, liver, kidney, heart, saw scraps, beef etc. I can do the ratio of 80% meat, 5% liver, 5% kidney and 10% saw scrap. Am I making sense? Would this work. If I bought enough maybe I could get a discount. Opinions? Or I could just look up MPC large quantity discounts. lol I do need to figure something out though, I know she is NOT getting what she needs in terms of amount:/

 

[TricAP]

How long have you been feeding raw ? Her dinner sounds pretty rich with heart and tripe if you are just starting. It took sll 3 of ours a while to get used to those items. One still can't tolerate heart....the other 2 think its candy. And tripe.....they'd sell us out for it.

 

[angelbears]

How long have you been feeding raw ? Her dinner sounds pretty rich with heart and tripe if you are just starting. It took sll 3 of ours a while to get used to those items. One still can't tolerate heart....the other 2 think its candy. And tripe.....they'd sell us out for it.

Totally agree. I would feed only chicken for at least a week. Older dogs take a little longer for their stomach acid to get up to strength to handle the bone. Chicken bone is pretty soft, so it is good to start with.

 

[BAMCB]

A

 

[BAMCB]

Holy cow! Where did my post go?? So much I typed:/ I'll have to get the little to sleep before coming back.

 

[cj-sharpy]

Yes if she is new to raw then hold back on the rich variety for a bit, chicken or pork worked best for us.
some just don't do chunks cos they don't know how to chew properly, yes they can chew a bone but that's chewing for fun not chewing at meal times so I'd start on minces and work up to chunks if this seems to be the problem.
if she is leaving the heart, and a lot do so don't worry too much, then its probably just far too rich for her, but waste not want not, slice it up and dehydrate it in the oven and use for training treats.
As for cheap meat I found asking the butcher what he could get from the slaughter house was a good idea. A lot of butchers actually buy their meat pre butchered as they dont want to transport meat they cant sell but he may be able to get you stuff that would otherwise go in the bin free or at least cheap.
another one i have found is pest control guys. I just got a bag of wood pigeon for next to nothing and rabbits can be got for about 50p each gutted and cleaned.

 

[Gabriel's Dad]

Cc

Trying Ty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BAMCB]

Yes, it seems to be chunks and bones that make her regurgitate. I have been feeding mostly chicken(1 back and breast cut up), whole chicken ground up(MPC), ground turkey, a tbsp or two of green tripe(MPC) and tried veggies(which are thrown to the side so stopped). Treats have been 2 chicken feet(1 st devoured and 2nd just chewed on), turkey tails(used as bribe to get out of the truck) and a large bone to gnaw which she LOVED! I added about 3 oz beef heart last night because she has not poo'd since Wednesday morning. It took a while to get her pee'ing regularly as she only went 2X in first 24hrs. Maybe this is normal for giant breeds(I've had JRT for last 15 yrs) but I don't recall my male EM only pee'ing 2X a day. Maybe I'm obsessing a bit too much about body functions but at 120# and defined rib cage I know she is underweight and want to be certain she is getting what she needs.

And seriously, thanks for all the great suggestions on where to search for meat sources! She's blowing through my months stash for the other twoshe eats more in one day than the both of them combined! lol

 

[BAMCB]

Ok, I think I have some pretty good knife skills. But there is no quick way to mince up 3lbs of chicken breast. I will be replacing my food processor sooner than I thought! Lol

 

[cj-sharpy]

Less pee and poo is normal. They need less food to get the goodness they need so poo less, there's also less crap to flush out of their system so they drink less and hence pee less.
I found a raw egg on his dinner was a good way of having him gain weight. Also fed him 3 to 4% of his weight rather than 2-3%. Plenty of exercise too and weight gain should happen nice and slowly, muscle rather than fat.

 

[BAMCB]

Less pee and poo is normal. They need less food to get the goodness they need so poo less, there's also less crap to flush out of their system so they drink less and hence pee less.
I found a raw egg on his dinner was a good way of having him gain weight. Also fed him 3 to 4% of his weight rather than 2-3%. Plenty of exercise too and weight gain should happen nice and slowly, muscle rather than fat.

Yes, I understand the less pooping is quite normal but only 3 poops(2 the first 36 hrs and only one since raw feeding) in 9 days is starting to concern me and her appetite is now down. She is on cephalexin(antibiotic for infected tumors) and Benadryl for all the itching with her inflamed scabbed skin issues. Maybe that is causing it? Chicken breast only and chopped super fine but she is now eating just a small amount and it has to be hand fed. I am trying walks to help her system move things but to no avail. I may call vet tomorrow if no improvement. Any suggestions would be awesome!

 

[angelbears]

I believe in raw, I feed raw, that being said you might try going to kibble with her. She has been through a whole lot of change both physically and mentally. If she still has a poor appetite on kibble I would switch right back to raw. If she eats kibble better, I would leave her own it until you get her health issues under control and switch her back to raw when she is on the road to health.

I would also get her on a probiotic, especially while she is on antibiotics. Antibiotics are really hard on the gut and might be part of the reason she has no appetite and irregular poop.