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$1500 dogs versus $3000 dogs ?

Duetsche_Doggen

Well-Known Member
What makes a good breeder is going to be who meets your criteria. As a general rule you want to see them doing something with their dogs, you want to see the health testing of the parents and hopefully see that she hasn't been bred too much. The rest is pretty much subjective, $3000.00 I would imagine is for a show/breed quality mastiff and I would say $1500 to 2000.00 is more likely your pet. Decide what you can spend, find a breeder that will work with you, that has dogs you like in the price range you are willing to pay. Explain what you are looking for to the breeder and make sure they can provide it.

We have Cane corsi which as pets can range from $1500-2000.00 and for a show/breed quality $2500-3500.00.

Love this post Mary especially the bold.

Personally I don't go much by price alone a more expensive dog doesn't mean its "better" and vice versa. If the dog meets the qualifications I'm looking for I inquire more. Good luck in your search.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
I'm not saying the AKCs great, cause it does have huge issues. But I'd be seriously thinking twice about CKC registered pups. UKC I'd be ok with. And I'd be ok with AKC foundation stock parents.....personal preference I'll admit.
 

Cody

Well-Known Member
I'm not saying the AKCs great, cause it does have huge issues. But I'd be seriously thinking twice about CKC registered pups. UKC I'd be ok with. And I'd be ok with AKC foundation stock parents.....personal preference I'll admit.
I am in 100% agreement here --^--
It is about the legitimacy. My main issue is that the CKC (Continental Kennel Club) does give paperwork/pedigrees to designer breeds such as the Doodle as long as both parents are registered. For the most part it is a registration for puppy mills and BYB, I am in no way saying that that is what you are, just saying that that registration is geared towards that audience.
I personally would rather see AKC FSS, but again, if selling a DDB to Canada that is what you would need to have in order to get the CKC misc paper work on the dog. Also if those pups turn out fantastic and you wanted to show you would have that venue.
It is true, price is not the be all end all, but very rarely are pups sold for under 1500, in my breed, from reputable breeders.
 

WalnutCrest

Well-Known Member
There is some great information on this thread.

Like many, I've purchased hugely expensive dogs (over $3000 as a pup) and have taken on free dogs. Not all expensive dogs are "all that and a bag of chips" and not all free dogs are a nightmare waiting to happen. That said, doing your homework can alleviate quite a few potential future issues...

**************

We've just bred our Mastiff bitch to the top stud in the country. The boy we used was tested for hips, elbows, heart, eyes, and a variety of DNA tests. Our girl was extensively tested, too (hips, elbows, etc.). The stud we used is the dad to the Best of Breed or Best of Opposite Sex winner at each of the last THREE national specialty dog shows, and our girl was the Winners Bitch at (arguably) the two biggest Mastiff dog shows in the world (Bucks and Trenton) a few months ago. He's the most winningest stud dog in the history of Mastiffs in the USA (i.e., his progeny have won more national specialty Best of Breed titles than any other stud in the Mastiff breed) and has been used on a very limited basis (he currently only has sired two litters of pups where the pups are over 2yrs of age).

So, the costs that go into a litter include the cost of all the health testing for the bitch, the stud fee, the cost of collecting and shipping the semen, the cost of the artificial insemination, the progesterone tests to make sure you time the AI correctly, the additional food (and occasionally, certain types of supplementation) for a pregnant bitch, ultrasound to confirm the pregnancy, a c-section to make sure you get them all ... PLUS ... all the costs that go into showing your dog (travel, lodging, food, entry fees, professional handler, etc.). It's not crazy to think that the costs to buy, test, show, impregnate and whelp a litter out of a world-class bitch could easily run $12,000-25,000, all-in (with the biggest variables being the upfront cost of the bitch pup, the costs to show and any emergency vet fees for the pregnant bitch or her pups). And, this doesn't include anything for the time and effort to research pedigrees, health issues, build relationships with the owners of the best studs, etc.

Now, compare that to the costs to breed "any ol' pair of dogs" ... find two of the same breed (registered or not) on Craigslist for $0-500 / each, wait until the girl comes into season, lock them in the garage for a weekend, then sit around and wait to see what happens a couple of months later. Then, the come home from work to find a litter in the backyard near the kids' sandbox and figure the pup's mom has everything under control and then sell the pups on full-registration (to whatever registry they want to use, if any) for $500 / each and you've made a tidy sum, and the puppy buyers, have ZERO idea what sort of genetic minefield they may be walking into.

All that said about dogs that win awards, the most important thing your dog (or any of the pups we're hopefully fortunate enough to whelp here in a few weeks) will ever do is wag their tail when you come home from a bad day. If you have a dog that looks like the standard but has a lousy personality, you'll move on from that breed to something else...

Good luck to you in your search! And, remember that while there are no guarantees in breeding dogs, there are some things you can do to stack the odds in your favor.
 
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megasaurus144

Active Member
Thanks you guys, I really appreciate all of the information you guys have given me. I do really have it in my heart to rescue a Mastiff, but as this will be my first mastiff, I am kind of caught in between rescueing or starting from puppy hood. I feel equal pros and cons in both directions. I also would hate to rescue an adult that was pooorly bred and will have alot of issues, and have my entire first experience be what everyone has been warning me about.... Not that I am unwilling in the future, but I really want my "first" dream mastiff to go as smoothly as possible. I have wanted a mastiff my ENTIRE life. Do you guys have any "rescue" stories you would care to share?
 

WalnutCrest

Well-Known Member
While rescue is not for the faint of heart, it can also absolutely and totally fill your heart!

Just because a Mastiff is available for rescue doesn't mean you must take it --- spend some time with the beastie before you'd have to make a committment.

Good luck to you!
 

excelrn

Active Member
Megasaurus, I apologize, I think I was a little too tired when I posted previously. I just re-read your post and realized you meant a puppy from a breeder, not a puppy to breed. Too much info in my post, for sure!
I paid $1200 for a pet quality, AKC registered, blue Neo Mastiff with a health guarantee from someone who's been breeding for over 20 years. Parents and a grand-dam were on the premises, and there were pictures from other litters. I send updates and pictures to the breeder.

I have rescued, but not Mastiffs. I will say that not all rescues are due to problems with the dog. I see a significant number that are for reasons as simple as, "my child has an allergy to the puppy," so the "rescue" is a slightly over-aged puppy that needs all the regular training, and not an ignored middle-aged adult that became out of control because his person never took time for him (have seen that, too, though).
 

DennasMom

Well-Known Member
I'm also in Washington State. When we decided to look for our first EM puppy, we checked local rescues (no luck), and then I went looking for breeders online, but didn't find anyone local (when I did, their websites were last updated over 5 years ago)... now that we have an EM (local BYB), I run into people all over that have or know someone who has a locally bred EM... So, my question is:

How do you find ANY breeder, let along a GOOD one??

And - when looking to rescue from WA, beware of a certain mastiff rescue group in Yakima... check their BBB status and read the stories before considering one of their dogs.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Did you try through the breed club? The AKC can get you a link to them. USUALLY they're a good place to start, though not always (the ATMA is mostly useless for that sort of thing).
 

WalnutCrest

Well-Known Member
Oh and another thing ...

Pup prices are usually a function of the stud fee (if an outside stud was used) ... the better and more proven the stud, the higher the fee and the more expensive the pups ... generally ...
 

barefoot

Member
I would look at the parent-grandparent level for their ability to reproduce quality litters not just individuals.....many kennels highlight an individual that can't reproduce itself or better......consistency of proven stock over generation's is about as good as it gets.....
price for most all is overinflated............take your time and do your homework......


dawg on.......
 

dogman#1

Well-Known Member
this is one of those questions that have so many different answers... When I am buying a pup for myself or looking for a pup for someone else I have to do an insane amount of research....weeks to months worth. The price for the pup that I want depends on what the breeder is asking and if I can afford that much or if it is close enough to what I want to be worth the extra $. I have gotten what I wanted for as little as 1000 and so much that I had to hide the costs from the wife. some of them turn out, some of them dont but it is a crap shoot at times. When I sell dogs I do it on a scale of sorts and only to make back some of the money spent on the breedings. You have to take into account stud fees, what are the chances that the "perfect" male for that "perfect" female just so happens to be the breeder's dogs? not saying it couldnt happen but that is a huge stroke of luck. reproduction specialist fees (so much more money is lost on not using them), health testing/xrays for sire and dam, prenatal and post natal care, ultrasounds before and after, shots/micro chips/vet care for the pups before they go, extra food expenses, etc. after all that is done then you have to divide all those costs by the # of pups that you are planning to sell (the breeder did the breeding for a reason and that reason should have been to keep 1 or more for themselves)... SOOO a litter of lets say 6 with only 3-4 that you are selling.... yea there is no money in this at all, lol. Now I only sell the pups to make some of that $ back but even then it is over 1000 but I try to keep it at 1200 or so. Then you have people like lions den that sells his dogs for over 2000 and doesnt do ANY of that stuff, they are making a killing off of their pups and they are nowhere near the same quality. so, no. more money doesnt nec. mean better stock.
 

Kujo

Well-Known Member
This thread has made me very nervous for my puppy...he was $600...the breeder said he was half the price because his head is smaller than show regulations...I could care less if he's show worthy, we just wanted a companion. I hope he stays healthy, so far he's in perfect condition other than Entropion in his left eye, which we are having corrected. The breeder did give me a health guarantee contract for up to 2 years of age. After taking him home we immediately visited the Vet and they gave him a clean bill of health. But based on this thread I probably bought a puppy that will develop some sort of deformity or health issue, and/or the breeder is actually a BYB and lied about his head size and why the price was so low. I'll admit...I did not do enough research on this breeder, I was far too excited to find a dog in my price range that I jumped in without looking (there was limited time to make this decision, apparently there were only 2 pups left and another potential buyer..for all I know this could have been a lie). I don't regret buying him because Kujo is just so damn wonderful, but I worry for his health. I guess all I can do now is hope that we got lucky and he stays healthy.
 

Duetsche_Doggen

Well-Known Member
That does not mean your pup is "defective" it just means for "show quality" he was not "good conformation" for the standard. Again you can pay an arm and leg for an unhealthy pup. This is where quality comes in. If your breeder did the proper health testing you shouldn't worry about it unless it arrives. That's why its important to health test before breeding it lessens the worry of the "what ifs."
 

raechiemay

Well-Known Member
Kujo I imagine what you were told by your breeder is similar to what I was told when I was car shopping. There's not much you can do about it now, just love your boy & give him a great life. I did the same exact thing with my girl. Got her for cheap bc she was the runt. It's all a learning experience that now I know better for my next dog. I've started researching CCs even though I'm several years away from taking the plunge. I'd love to now but I just have too much going on.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Kujo, it doesn't mean he's going to get sick. But it may mean that the breeder cut corners. Or maybe they just always price their pet pups that low. I do have to wonder how you tell head size is going to be that out of proportion in that young of a pup though.

Do you know if the parents were health tested? If you have his pedigree or registration you can at least check the OFA and see if they were.

Regardless what really counts now is that he's stolen your heart!
 

newtocorsos

New Member
I'm new and not trying to argue i was just wondering how he could be U.K.C.? i'm getting a puppy soon and all of this kennel club stuff is over my head!