Breeders: Question on breeding practices

[ruby55]

Do you breed your dames back to back on their heat cycles, or do you skip a heat? And why? I'm asking because we've changed our breeding policies at work, & although I have no influence on the policy, I'm not sure I agree with it.

 

[maryl]

I and the Newfy breeders I dealt with would only breed back to back if the first litter was very small ie; 2-3 pups. Usually we would breed only when we wanted to keep a pup or every other heat at most.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

I think it depends on the female and how she bounced back, how many puppies came from the first litter, etc. If you end up with an older female it might be safer to do a back to back and spay for her own health. My reproductive vet and I take it on a case by case discussion but as I only tend to do two litters per female and early enough to spay them at 5-6 years it hasn't come up yet.

 

[Boxergirl]

I know there was some discussion about this among my boxer breeder friends. It seems that there's been a change in thinking. Many now feel that back to back is better, for two litters - maximum three, but two seems to be the standard - and then spay. So that would put the dogs at over two before ever being bred and done and spayed by four or five. It was mentioned that the instance of pyometra was increased in intact females that weren't bred. Kind of a use it or lose it thing. I don't have literature to back that up, just what I remember being said. It was against everything I was ever told to breed back to back, but doing some reading I can see that it may not be the worst thing as long as you only do it for two litters and look at each dog individually. Breeding back to back for the life of the female is wrong, but the way my friend was discussing it I would be okay with.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

We must have read the same info as I remember bringing something similar up to my reproductive vet and going through all the fact and both sides of the argument and we both agreed it would have to be on a case by case basis, you could never say across the board that you need to do it this way as some females just don't whelp easily or have huge litters that just drain them.

I know there was some discussion about this among my boxer breeder friends. It seems that there's been a change in thinking. Many now feel that back to back is better, for two litters - maximum three, but two seems to be the standard - and then spay. So that would put the dogs at over two before ever being bred and done and spayed by four or five. It was mentioned that the instance of pyometra was increased in intact females that weren't bred. Kind of a use it or lose it thing. I don't have literature to back that up, just what I remember being said. It was against everything I was ever told to breed back to back, but doing some reading I can see that it may not be the worst thing as long as you only do it for two litters and look at each dog individually. Breeding back to back for the life of the female is wrong, but the way my friend was discussing it I would be okay with.

 

[ruby55]

In the past year or so, our breeding & genetics specialist has pretty much gone to a back to back program, 3 litters & out. What we're seeing is an overall reduction in litter size, AND moms in general do not bounce back well at all. Our average litter size used to be about 7 or 8; we're now down to 4 or 5. And it seems as though the moms just get really beat up, don't recover well by the third litter. Our neonatal mortality rate used to be less than 1%; we're now almost at 2%. Seems to me it's just not working.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

My vet has never advocated 3 litters back to back. At most it is two litters and a rest of at least a year. It is hard on a female's body so weighing the pros and cons for each bitch I think is the only way to do it

 

[Smokeycat]

Except for stopping at 3 litters that sounds more like byb breeding rather than responsible breeding to me.

 

[ruby55]

Except for stopping at 3 litters that sounds more like byb breeding rather than responsible breeding to me.

I agree. It's just too hard on the dams, I can't see how we're getting good quality service dogs out of this. I whelp the litters, then take care of them until they're about 5 weeks old. We do a lot of very early stimulation (body awareness, sound sensitivity, etc.) & I'm seeing more pups that need more one on one work. It's not just a nature vs. nurture thing anymore. While I can write up many reports on my observations, it takes someone way higher up than me to put their foot down. Pretty frustrating.