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    We decided to spruce things up and fix some things under the hood. If you notice any issues, feel free to contact us as we're sure there are a few things here or there that we might have missed in our upgrade.

Hello Jagger is our new English Mastiff pup!

natsan6

Well-Known Member
Hello Jagger is our new English Mastiff pup! (finally got the pic to post lol)

Jagger.jpgWe adore our new little man and he already is doing a great job at going potty outside as long as his mommy or brothers and sisters are paying attention close enough :) He was born Nov10 and is brand new to our family so we haven't gotten him to the vet yet, though he will be going soon, I would love some advice on what and how much to feed him. I weighed him on my scale and he ways around 11lbs. We are trying to be strong about making him crate but he really is a much better sleeper with us...I know I have to stop it... but right now he is so little....and he was first pick of the littler and I think he is lonesome :( Thanks for you advice and I look forwarding to haunting this site for advice!

Natalie
 
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Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
Welcome! He's adorable. I have a thread with the 2011 Whole Dog's Journal Food List in the nutrition section and as soon as I get the 2012 list I'll post any changes. In general you want either an all life stages food or a quality adult food that has both appropriate levels of protein and the right ratio of calcium to phosphorus. You do not want a food you can find at a grocery store, any puppy formulas (especially large breed puppy because mastiffs aren't large breeds) and in general the bag will tell you how much to feed. I usually feed by look. If my EM pup is looking a little thin or she had a lot of exercise I give her a little more than what the bag says. If she's looking a like pudgy and hasn't done much, I'll give her a little less. What have you been feeding him so far?
 

natsan6

Well-Known Member
Thank you!! All of you! @ SmartFam the breeder had him on puppy chow and I know he doesn't need to stay on it. We took in a foster neo cross not that long ago (which is how we fell in love with mastiffs) and he had horrible skin problems due to cheap food. Jagger was a gift to our family(and himself) from my husband this Christmas and we are heading out today to get him a new high quality food to start mixing with the puppy chow. He seems a little thin to me through his rib cage and I am fairly certain at the vets next week he will be getting wormed again. My concern is that I make sure he is getting the proper amount and quality of food. I did find one website that suggested putting a small amount of canned food on top of the dry...would you happen to have any suggestions to a brand for that? Thank you for your help and I am jumping over to your food list now :)

One other thing...how long should I expect him to be able to stay in his crate at night....it kills me I feel sooo mean! He usually ends up in the bed and sleeps just like the baby he is when he is there lol!
 

natsan6

Well-Known Member
Thank You Cody! Smart Family I was happy to see I wasn't totally off base when I changed our foster to Natural Balance because that is on your list. However I did notice that I missed a very important point when I used to purchase it for him(we no longer have him) was that I was buying the Large Breed bites that were all natural and since Mastiffs are considered a giant breed maybe that isn't the brand to go with. I do remember checking the calcium balance on the food and it being a higher than most "large breed" foods? So many choices hahaha!
 

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
Ehhhh canned food is expensive and puppies can become accustomed to having it and refuse to eat without it. With an older dog who's not eating or needs to gain weight maybe but I wouldn't recommend it with a puppy unless you are prepared to have to always do so. Honestly we also got our EM at 7 weeks and she was 11 lbs. She was just a little girl. She gained slowly at first and is now gaining a little more. She turned 15 weeks today and is 35 lbs. The problem with mastiffs is you don't want them to grow too fast which a lot of foods that are too high in protein can cause. I know it's hard because you see this itty bitty puppy and you know they are supposed to be a big as adults but if he's eating well and has been dewormed, I say just give it time. Puppy Chow is awful so I'm glad you've acknowledged the need for change. If your vet expresses concern or you really don't feel he's growing adequately you can try satin balls as well. Here's an example of a recipe http://www.holisticdog.org/Nutrition/Satinballs/satinballs.html . I believe there are several people on here that use/have used satin balls and might have recipes they like better. Just remember the key is slow and steady growth. As far as the crate, we crate train but not at night. Our dogs sleep in our room/bed from day one and we do the crate training during the day, starting with 15 min at first and then going up to about an hour. Mind you we are home during this so we can tell if the dog is having a really hard time or if they are just being dramatic. Some people like to crate train at night though so everyone's different. Just like everyone has a different opinion on food. My opinions/belief come from literally hours of research and a dog nutritionist who was kind enough to educate me/point me in the right direction. At the end of the day, your dog is your dog so do what works for you and your family. Hope you find something that works for your pup!

---------- Post added at 12:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 PM ----------

Thank You Cody! Smart Family I was happy to see I wasn't totally off base when I changed our foster to Natural Balance because that is on your list. However I did notice that I missed a very important point when I used to purchase it for him(we no longer have him) was that I was buying the Large Breed bites that were all natural and since Mastiffs are considered a giant breed maybe that isn't the brand to go with. I do remember checking the calcium balance on the food and it being a higher than most "large breed" foods? So many choices hahaha!

That list of food is a good list to start off with, however not all those foods are good for giant breeds. In all honesty most of the time you buy any kind of formula that is specific i.e. large breed, puppy, small breed, senior, etc. you are usually paying more for the same thing that is in either the adult formula or an all life stages food. Also people use to think that higher protein levels are really what causes growth problems in larger dogs and while this is partly true it's more that foods with a higher protein level tend to have a higher calcium to phosphorus ratio which is what can cause the most problems. Some foods that are great like Evo and certain formulas of Orijen and Acana have protein levels too high for puppies but are good for dogs over the age of 18 months or so. In general you want a calcium percentage under 1.8% but ideally closer to the 1.4 to 1.6 % range.
 

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
Thank You Cody! Smart Family I was happy to see I wasn't totally off base when I changed our foster to Natural Balance because that is on your list. However I did notice that I missed a very important point when I used to purchase it for him(we no longer have him) was that I was buying the Large Breed bites that were all natural and since Mastiffs are considered a giant breed maybe that isn't the brand to go with. I do remember checking the calcium balance on the food and it being a higher than most "large breed" foods? So many choices hahaha!

That list of food is a good list to start off with, however not all those foods are good for giant breeds. In all honesty most of the time you buy any kind of formula that is specific i.e. large breed, puppy, small breed, senior, etc. you are usually paying more for the same thing that is in either the adult formula or an all life stages food. Also people use to think that higher protein levels are really what causes growth problems in larger dogs and while this is partly true it's more that foods with a higher protein level tend to have a higher calcium to phosphorus ratio which is what can cause the most problems. Some foods that are great like Evo and certain formulas of Orijen and Acana have protein levels too high for puppies but are good for dogs over the age of 18 months or so. In general you want a calcium percentage under 1.8% but ideally closer to the 1.4 to 1.6 % range.

---------- Post added at 12:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------

And this is pulled directly from the dog nutritionist I spoke of before " Ratio of Ca to Ph should be 1.2:1. That means there should be 1.2 times MORE calcium than phosphorus in a food. "
 

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
And this is pulled directly from the dog nutritionist I spoke of before " Ratio of Ca to Ph should be 1.2:1. That means there should be 1.2 times MORE calcium than phosphorus in a food. "
 

natsan6

Well-Known Member
Thank you so much for all the wonderful info it narrowed it down quite a bit. Natural Balance came close to those ratios but a few points off. Now I just get to find where to buy in my area and I am all set. I was going to petco but they don't have anything that fits the bill that I can find. I think I will go with taste of the wild from their website a few feed stores around here offer it. Thanks again for taking the time to help me :) Now to get through our first vet visit without having a panic attack!
 

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
No problem! Good luck :)

---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:19 PM ----------

Oh and I forgot to mention if you go Taste of the Wild, the Sierra Mountain formula is the one appropriate for mastiff pups.
 

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
Oh and I forgot to mention if you go Taste of the Wild, the Sierra Mountain formula is the one appropriate for mastiff pups.