Hi guys new to this site can i ask a question?

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Im sorry guys i tried repling to all but looks like i dont know how to work this site all my posts are going to bottom of page but thank you all so much i did not know all that was involved i will keep everyone informed of what happens i think i will wait to get them fixed untill i get all the paperwork from the estate and contact their breeders (our vet said that the breeders might have a legal right to the dogs is that true? anyone? i could not imagine losing them) thank you all for taking time out of your day to help a stranger!

It will depend on what was written in the contract but a lot of breeders, if they see your devotion and that you are a good home will not have a problem letting you keep them. (I hope this is the case for you) Also instead of you breeding them maybe if the breeders are interested in using them you can inquire on them co-owning a pup with you at your place. Perhaps if the breeders are close enough you might be able to get a mentor with one of them and if you have an interest in breeding learn what you can about the breed and set up a kennel in your brothers memory and continue on with his goals of a program. Maybe you might find you share a similar passion with your brother for purebred dogs.

When it comes to posting if you are replying more than once it will add the posts. If you wish to reply to each one you can use the "+ button at the bottom of the posts you want to reply to and then reply to each individual that way and it will not double or triple your replies

Good luck and I hope all works out for you. Wishing you and your dogs all the best!

 

[angelbears]

It will depend on what was written in the contract but a lot of breeders, if they see your devotion and that you are a good home will not have a problem letting you keep them. (I hope this is the case for you) Also instead of you breeding them maybe if the breeders are interested in using them you can inquire on them co-owning a pup with you at your place. Perhaps if the breeders are close enough you might be able to get a mentor with one of them and if you have an interest in breeding learn what you can about the breed and set up a kennel in your brothers memory and continue on with his goals of a program. Maybe you might find you share a similar passion with your brother for purebred dogs.

When it comes to posting if you are replying more than once it will add the posts. If you wish to reply to each one you can use the "+ button at the bottom of the posts you want to reply to and then reply to each individual that way and it will not double or triple your replies

Good luck and I hope all works out for you. Wishing you and your dogs all the best!

I agree with Mary. Nicely said. If you do have a passion for these dogs, what a wonderful and lasting tribute to your brother.

 

[Oak Hill Farm]

It will depend on what was written in the contract but a lot of breeders, if they see your devotion and that you are a good home will not have a problem letting you keep them. (I hope this is the case for you) Also instead of you breeding them maybe if the breeders are interested in using them you can inquire on them co-owning a pup with you at your place. Perhaps if the breeders are close enough you might be able to get a mentor with one of them and if you have an interest in breeding learn what you can about the breed and set up a kennel in your brothers memory and continue on with his goals of a program. Maybe you might find you share a similar passion with your brother for purebred dogs.

When it comes to posting if you are replying more than once it will add the posts. If you wish to reply to each one you can use the "+ button at the bottom of the posts you want to reply to and then reply to each individual that way and it will not double or triple your replies

Good luck and I hope all works out for you. Wishing you and your dogs all the best!

I also agree with Mary!

 

[Mamie2shoes]

I completely understand the want of the pups and glad that you are willing to keep them all. I am simply just thinking and mentioning a few things here that might be a concern also.
If you want to share the pups with your family so you can all enjoy them, would your family members be wise owners? And by this I mean different people have different temperaments that make some dogs good matches and some NOT. Would they be able to handle, control, train such a strong and dominant dog? Also, the expense, feeding alone, then vet bills, housing, etc. It is a giant breed with giant needs. Also, will it fit into their lifestyles?? Do they travel alot or work long hours that would restrict time with the pup? Do they have lots of social plans/obligations? These are all very important factors that must be considered. Also, what if they have 14 pups? What would you do with them all? Are you prepared to give 2 away and keep 12 for a total of 14 giant breeds at home?? I am simply a planner that likes to look at every possible outcome and then try to control all of the variables. This is a huge undertaking, I will pray for you to have wisdom. This is just a flipside thought, what about maybe studding Bubba out and getting one of the pups to carry on? I only say this because you said your brother had no intention of breeding them together and I thought that maybe this might be what he had in mind, studding to better the line, not mixing. Good luck and just try to enjoy the pups all you can.

 

[Tiger12490]

And how do mutts tend to be better?
Health and temperament? That has long been debunked. Instead of the genetic issues of 1 breed you have the problems of multiple. As for mixing the breeds they want, that is the load of garbage. How many of the people doing it "cause they want to" end up taking back or offering life time support of the pups they wanted to make. How many offer support when the pups are in pain, sick or dying?
Again it is that sense of entitlement, I own it there fore I will breed it.
Because you want/can do something doesn't mean you should.
I am not against mixing breeds with a set purpose and a view of what one wants as the final outcome. That still takes years of studying the two breeds, the pedigrees behind those breeds, looking at what the consistencies and traits are being thrown by the dogs you are looking at to get an idea of what may be the outcome of the desired litters.
Then still doing proper health testing, maybe producing one litter and waiting for it to develop to see if your goal is on it's way to being achieved. I do not believe in breeding being taken lightly. Purebred or mutts.
That said, I also do not really see the need of creating more breeds, if there is something specific one is looking to do with a breed chances are there is already a breed created to do it.

Hybrid vigor is alive and well and a very very real occurance.. also most genetic issues take 2 bad coppies to be passed on.......so typically breeding 2 dogs of different breeds can indeed have healthier pups..especially with any talk of the Neo..... plus as long as there are homes and they health test how are we gonna say what's wrong or right...there are tons of show breeders who breed because they love the breed not for any other reason and that's okay because there dogs have peds? So what's wrong with breeding "properly mind you" because they love there brother...NOW I would probably not breed them because those 2 breeds together as gifts to the family sounds like a potential disaster...those are 2 very real dogs...but if your family is ready for the responsibility and are ready to love the dogs as much as you do then I say do what makes you happy....I just hate when mixes are made out to be mongrels when most pure breeds cant accomplish there original purpose......

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Hybrid vigor is alive and well and a very very real occurance

Do you have documentation on this? I disagree but if you have supporting documentation then I would certainly like to read it and educate myself farther.

 

[Tiger12490]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100720212921.htm

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...6uHZCQ&usg=AFQjCNHHrAiXcdyAuFJOT91dGTntpd-5cw

http://everydogsblog.blogspot.com/2007/11/myth-of-myth-of-hybrid-vigor.html?m=1

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[Tiger12490]

The Alaskan husky is a good show of how hybrid breed types can surpass dogs orginally purpose built for something....

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[Tiger12490]

Lol did I kill this thread too?

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[Mamie2shoes]

no, you didn't kill it, I am reading the links, thanks for sharing them

 

[Tiger12490]

Your very welcome... where are the people who asked for the info?

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Sorry I am reading the links but I also have 2 kids and 6 dogs as well as some other research going on at the moment. I have read 2 of them and they are an interesting read but there are also just as many articles with experts that contradict these theories so I am reading up on both to get the full view.

 

[Tiger12490]

Definitely of course there will be opposing views .. there are people who think the Holocaust didn't happen lol....but I kinda feel the proof is in the pudding . Chickens...cows...plants...Aussie pig dogs.. Alaskan husky..performance bandog breeders...shoot a lot of Cane and presa are recreations also that fact there are diferent types in those breeds as well you can hybridize just from out crossing to a different type...

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[Cody]

Haven't disappeared, work most weekends and don't have a lot of time to write longer responses
As I said in an earlier post I have nothing against the responsible mixing of breeds to create a dog with a purpose. That said the most important word for me in that sentence is responsible. One would have to do the health testing, study the lines to ensure that the desired traits in the chosen breed are dominant. I DO NOT agree with the haphazard mixing of or purebred breeding of dogs cause " my dog is cool" or "I can make some money".
As for the health issues, the Internet is an amazing tool. As you said, there are sights that say the holocaust never happened.
What I find interesting in your argument is this, by that "fact" that mixed breeds are healthy then purebreds, could you then please explain to me the hereditary issues found within dog "types" from puppymills.
It is well known and documented that these dogs that are bred are quite often designer breeds, mixed breeds yet the health issues that come with these dogs are prevelant.
Daily at work I have bichon x shih Tzu crosses with severe hip Dysplacia, epilepsy and many other issues.
My big problem is irresponsible breeding period. Cross or purebred, doesn't matter.
Genetics is an interesting topic, if both dogs regardless of breed, carry recessive genes for hereditary issues then the pups have a chance of inheriting.
All breeds are crosses at some points, the CC is one of the worst in my opinion. From line to line you can see the influences of other breeds. Look at the dogs, retracted, severely undershot, pinched nostrils, square in stature, round eyes, round heads... I don't deny it.
Okay here is my Internet link, I will post more later, gotta make dinner first.
http://www.chromadane.com/practicalgen.htm
http://home.comcast.net/~NoPuppyMillsVA/Poo-dogs___Designer_Mutts/Hybrid_Vigor/hybrid_vigor.html

A later thought... My parents raise cattle, and they do throw in a herford bull with their angus cows from time to time. The calves they produce are larger, will not deny that, and Angus make great moms.
The one thing that happens however, is they don't health test for HD, Epi or other hereditary issues. If a cow, bull gets hurt or can't walk it is shot and turned into dog food
Nor do they live as long as our pets, one the cows get older is off to the auction. There is no emotional attachment, no vet calls....
Also interesting fact, if a cow, bull, steer gets rolled onto it's back it fills with it's own gas and dies, can't get back up. Cattle, for the majority of the time, live to 2 years old, then they end up in the supermarket. Just sayin' using cattle as a comparison with dogs isn't quite accurate.

 

[Tiger12490]

Well with that you do need to test for health I never said that there always healthier... puppy mills indeed breed designer dogs but the only thing is when you keep them in the conditions like that and don't health test regardless you get bad dogs pure bred or not... same with the nasty corso and presa... but when done well its amazing.....my only thing is if both are healthy have the testing done have the homes set up how is that any different than breeding pedigree EM who have less purpose....and I don't even believe in non-working dogs but its confusing to see show dog advocates look down on mutts when they serve the same purpose (companionship) ...(hops off soap box)

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[Tiger12490]

And cattle are great to compare there both animals I was talking about genetics... that there bigger proves my point.. the fact of the matter is with dogs you just test more and harder.. we eat cattle and such don't really matter we breed and select for different traits in cattle and dogs but the fact that hyrbidazation has occurred in front of you should mean you should know the truth...

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[Cody]

And cattle are great to compare there both animals I was talking about genetics... that there bigger proves my point.. the fact of the matter is with dogs you just test more and harder.. we eat cattle and such don't really matter we breed and select for different traits in cattle and dogs but the fact that hyrbidazation has occurred in front of you should mean you should know the truth...

Tapd on my skyrocket

Lol, that makes little to no sense.
Yes the offspring are bigger then the Angus alone. I am not debating that if you bred a great Dane to a yorkie that the offspring would be larger then the yorkie... We are talking health, and the myth that mixed breeds are healthier then their purebred counter parts.
With cattle there is no one saying that an Angus x Herford is healthier then the angus, the large majority of calves head to auction at a year. There is no testing for genetic issues with cattle, beside a test for Bse which requires the head of the cow being cut off. So if a cow dies ranchers may or may not send in that head. Again a WHOLE different test.
I am in 100% agreement with you about dogs being bred for a purpose, and should have health testing.
As far as conformation, it is my believe that a well bred purebred should be able to have multiple titles, in both working and show. However I do not believe all work involves bite work, there are multiple venues for everyone.
As conformation should be about choosing the best example of the breed based on breed standards, we know it is not always that way, but for now it is a tool that should be used in purebred breeding programs.

---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ----------

Hybrid vigor is alive and well and a very very real occurance.. also most genetic issues take 2 bad coppies to be passed on.......so typically breeding 2 dogs of different breeds can indeed have healthier pups..
Tapd on my skyrocket

I believe this is what I was referring to I regards to health.

 

[Cody]

Hybrid vigor is alive and well and a very very real occurance.. also most genetic issues take 2 bad coppies to be passed on.......so typically breeding 2 dogs of different breeds can indeed have healthier pups..
Tapd on my skyrocket

I believe this is what I was referring to I regards to health.

 

[Tiger12490]

I'm not sure if you understand how it all ties together I'll try and elaborate your genes are everything the beginning and ends of YOU size health skin color eye color everything is genetic. I don't know about your particular mix of cattle but I do know cattle take the Maine anjou X black Angus it was by far more than just size but for taste and ability to be both beef and dairy for breed ability and for reering and your cows don't get checked....are they USDA? Because all I've known the testing can be strict with everything from mad cow disease and crazy crap carried by flies and bulls being tested for suitability.. anyways though we don't breed for that in dogs just as we don't breed for seed yield in dogs but we hybrid plants for that...you pick and choose what you breed for un natural selection no different than with pure breds just that mixed breeds take to it better is all..that's all hybridization is they don't have to be better but they could be.. I wasn't talking about health so much but they can be healthier not from hybridazation but most things take 2 sets of genetics most aren't dominant traits you breed to a different breed that isn't known for those problems and most likely your set but responsible breeding you shouldn't have to worry about genetic problems too much mutt or pure bred...the whole pure breeds can do it all is really the only argument.... thing is.... most can't...most knpv dutchies and mals got apbt in them and there the police dogs we see walk our streets everyday....some pure breeds excel and I respect that I just don't like pure breed enthusiast look down on mutts because to me it slightly ridiculous considering most pure breeds are a waste of space no better than most mutts your waste of space just cost more and has some papers in a manilla folder somewhere .. and bite work is definitely not the only way of working a dog that's why none of my examples relied on that

Tapd on my skyrocket

 

[Cody]

First off as far as taste goes in beef that is mainly determined by the fat in the muscle, which gives beef it's rating from A-AAA to in some rare cases Sterling. It is based on the marbling in the meat not the breed of cattle, with perhaps the exception of Kobe. However any yearling on a diet of beer, saki and massaged daily may get a tad more marbling then the average cattle. That said the Maine Anjou also has the distinct ability to gain fat on a grass diet unlike others who require grain to be finished. That does cut down on the finishing time and feed lot expense.
No, our cattle are not USDA cause we are in Canada , and yes the animals are tested, at the slaughter facility/feed lot for any disease that may affect their fitness for human consumption, NOT however Dysplacia, thyroid and other congenital issues. That is on the final level, not the Rancher ie breeder who performs those tests. With the exception of BSE testing if an animal should pass away. (the only test for BSE is post mortem) What I am saying is that the comparision of cattle ( only purpose is human consumption, no other reason for existence, all breeds.) and canines ( bred for a multitude of tasks depending on breed) cannot be adequately done, as testing is non existent in bovines. There fore this debate is pointless.
I never argued that by cross breeding you couldn't get larger/smaller dogs or desired traits. I think you need to go back and review what it is that I have written in this thread. But as you can get the best of 2 breeds you can also get the worst.
What my issue was, what I questioned at the beginning was your comment about how cross breeds are better then their purebred counterparts. I am not saying that one is better then the other I am advocating responsible breeding practices which I do not think that the OP was thinking of.
Responsible breeding of all breeds. How many designer breeds do we need? Really how many more "oodles" are required?
That there is my problem. The LARGE majority of people crossing breeds ARE NOT DOING SO RESPONSIBLY.
And if you look at health issues by breed, pretty much most health issues are prevelant in EVERY breed.
As far as cost... Lol, I have seen some pretty pricey mutts out there as well.