Hobby vs professional breeders

[Cody]

So since this was kinda started on another thread I thought I would start a new one here.
What makes the difference? I am not talking about puppy mills or BYB, but large scale breeders who show, work, title and health test their dogs but have larger kennels.
Some of these larger scale breeders have their breeding stock with other people and have them whelp, but is still their breedings. But, they ARE making a profit, is that wrong in your opinions? Some have staff to help take care of the dogs, ensure all are in good health, happy, well excersized...
Or would you go to the smaller hobby breeder?
I have heard pro's and con's on both of these types of breeders.
I am interested to hear others opinions.
Also how many litters does it take to make the difference between the 2.

 

[Kelly]

I have no problem with an ethical breeder making money. A breeder who is seriously vetting their puppy buyers is fine, I would never buy a pup from someone who would sell to me just cus I showed up with the money.

If someone like Firehorse or say Mary, who I believe to be breeders who are in it for the dogs, wants to make some money, that's fine. I dont know if these breeders are actually making money at what they are selling their pups for, but if they are, fine with me. In any case, most of them are selling at approximately the same rate.

If you're a byb that is breeding without health checks, paying attention to standard or temp, vetting potential puppy buyers, and you're charging the same as a Firehorse or Black Shadow, well...that would be unethical in my books. Charging the same amount and not doing the work. Chances are you wouldn't get the follow up either.

 

[AKBull]

 

[Jerms]

It really cant be wrong to make a profit if you are taking care of the dogs the best you could and being honest with customers. Obviously im new to all of this but it seems to me that people who profit on the sale of dogs are looked down upon. I truly believe breeders can make a SMALL profit doing what they love and still do right by both dog and customer. The only thing that makes me uneasy like I said on the other thread is giving up a dog that has loved you for years just to be able to make more dogs. When the breeder is at that point I think the right thing to do is keep the dog and maybe take some time off from breeding till the pack thins naturally. Does anyone agree?

 

[ruthcatrin]

You're assuming the dog loved the breeder, and was happy in the home. Not to mention that the dog will be unhappy going to the new home. Don't you think thats a rather big assumption?

 

[raechiemay]

Lol sorry AK made me do it.

 

[Jerms]

I read somewhere on here that good breeders treat their dogs like a part of the family--socialize them and get to know their temperment and so forth. If a dog is kept with a family who are good breeders why would they be unhappy?

 

[ruthcatrin]

I read somewhere on here that good breeders treat their dogs like a part of the family--socialize them and get to know their temperment and so forth. If a dog is kept with a family who are good breeders why would they be unhappy?

Because their temperment is such that they only kinda tolerate children, and the breeder has two, which means the dog has limited access to the household. Or the breeder has cats and its a constant fight to keep that dog from going after the cats, which means that either the dog or the cats has to be cooped up constantly. Or the dog has a true working temperment and isn't tolerant of the constant stream of visitors in and out of the home. Or....

 

[DennasMom]

If you're not making money at it, it's a HOBBY by definition (at least per the IRS here in the USA).

And, if a breeder isn't expected to make a significant amount of money selling puppies, how do they pay the mortgage on the dog house and put dog food on the table??

 

[ruthcatrin]

And, if a breeder isn't expected to make a significant amount of money selling puppies, how do they pay the mortgage on the dog house and put dog food on the table??

All the ones I've talked to personally either work a "real" job themselves, or have a spouse who does, that pays the bills.

 

[Jerms]

That makes sense ruth you have to bear with me if you can ive already bought a pup from a byb and still learning. Do you think a responsible breeder would breed dogs such as mastiffs in a house with children and cats and lots of visitors knowing that there is a chance that this will happen?

 

[ruthcatrin]

Do you think a responsible breeder would breed dogs such as mastiffs in a house with children and cats and lots of visitors knowing that there is a chance that this will happen?

all right, someone else answer him. I'm going to go beat my head into a wall.....

Do you REALLY want the only dog breeders out there to be hermits with no children or access to other animals???

 

[Jerms]

Sorry to make you upset- but if its gonna cause a dog to be rehomed people who breed dogs should probably not have young children--especially a mastiff. Thats like having a dog thats hates children and then having a child.

 

[raechiemay]

I believe it's in the puppy's or dog's best interest to be exposed to children at a young age so they aren't rehomed when a new baby or kid comes along. And the socialization with other pets especially cats or the like will help those potential puppy buyers that have cats or other pets in the household.

 

[masteneo]

so with you Ruthcatrin, damn i am trying for the life of me to clearly define a responsible breeder. I know what its not. its not someone who breeds regardless of quality. Humans living conditions really dont comprise much in my opinion either. How many kids and other animals doesn't matter as well. but that leaves a broad area to be defined. Whether or not there is profit is solely left up to the seller. Obviously its not charity. How much profit is made is the business of the owner of the operation.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Sorry to make you upset- but if its gonna cause a dog to be rehomed people who breed dogs should probably not have young children--especially a mastiff. Thats like having a dog thats hates children and then having a child.

Alright, example from someone I know personally: She breeds corgi's. She had this lovely little bitch. Championship, great with cats, and dogs who aren't to energetic or dominent. Had a litter out of her, produced great pups with awesome working and showing temperments. There was just one little problem. The older bitch in the house was highly dominent and was very overwhelming for the younger bitch, and as the breeder's kids got to the move on their own stages they proved to be to much for the younger bitch to handle. She never bit, but she'd cower and piddle and hide in corners anytime the kids got loud or moved to quickly near her or the older bitch decided to exert her authority. After tons of work with trainers, and the kids, they manage to get her more comfortable, but she never was happy in the home with the dominent dog and the kids. So they re-homed her. It was better for her, it was better for the family, and it allowed the breeder to move on with her breeding plans and look forward to what else she wanted to do with her lines.

Never mind the stupidity of expecting a breeder to NOT expose their pups to as many of those things as possible....

I believe it's in the puppy's or dog's best interest to be exposed to children at a young age so they aren't rehomed when a new baby or kid comes along. And the socialization with other pets especially cats or the like will help those potential puppy buyers that have cats or other pets in the household.

Absolutely. Having those things in the household provides additional socialization and makes the rest of the puppy's life easier.

Unfortunetly there are individual dogs for whom kids (or whatever) are just to much. Its how their temperment is, and socialization and training just teaches them to tolerate, not enjoy. If those dogs otherwise have traits that are needed in the gene pool there's no reason not to use them provided they can be bred to a dog with a better temperment. But then, for the dog's sake, it may be better to find a better suited home for them, where they don't have to put up with kids (or whatever) on a daily basis.

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 PM ----------

so with you Ruthcatrin, damn i am trying for the life of me to clearly define a responsible breeder.

I feel like I'm talking to a wall, a wall who can talk and only wants to make excuses for why that won't work....

 

[ruthcatrin]

so with you Ruthcatrin, damn i am trying for the life of me to clearly define a responsible breeder.

I feel like I'm talking to a wall, a wall who can talk and only wants to make excuses for why that won't work....

 

[angelbears]

There is nothing wrong with making money, it is how you make the money.

A good breeder is a good breeder no matter how many litters they throw. I would look for knowledge of the breed, health testing, personality of the breeder. All things being equal I would go with the smaller hobby breeder.

Showing a dog doesn't mean much to me. So, I would not use that as a factor.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Showing a dog doesn't mean much to me. So, I would not use that as a factor.

True, but talking Fila's, they temperment test yes? Would you prefer a dog who correctly passed temperment testing as your pup's parents over a dog who'd not been tested?

 

[Jerms]

Rachiemae that makes sense thank you. How about the breeders that rehome after having the dogs for years just to be able to breed more dogs like mentioned in one of northern mastiffs post? This definately seems wrong. After being with the pack for years some type of bond between owner(breeder) has to form--what do people think of this?

---------- Post added at 09:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 PM ----------

@ ruth your example of your friend makes me understand thanks. Isnt that different than rehoming after years of owning a dog and then rehoming when the dog doesnt make sense to breed anymore?