Loverboy Skyline
Well-Known Member
I too apologize for hijacking this thread. I hope the OP has tried our suggestions to control her CC's jumping behavior.I hesitate to respond because this discussion isn't helping the OP at all, but I'm going to and I extend my apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread. Tracyhc, if you check back in please let us know how we can help further. I'd be happy to try to help you find a good trainer in your area. I really think you need one.
We can all interpret statements made in individual publications how we want. Shade herself has indicated repeatedly that in her own training of her personal dogs she chooses to use no aversives. She HAS titled dogs using no aversives. Fenzi Academy does not use instructors that employ compulsion techniques in their training. That's what Denise Fenzi is known for - training for sports positively - and we're a household that has taken many of the classes offered. Ms. Whitesel's goal now as a trainer appears to be to help others learn to train their dogs using the least amount of aversives they can for the sports they desire to compete in. That's what every reward based trainer strives for. To teach people how to do it better. Remember she's a crossover trainer so she has used other methods and is now working to teach other people how to reach their goal in a different way. I have seen no indication in the small R+ training world (it's huge but it's small when it comes to reputation) that she's fibbing about no longer using compulsion method for her own dogs. I think we may have to agree to disagree on this subject, Loverboy skyline as our interpretations of what we're reading seem to support our individual positions. FWIW, I think it's great that you trained your dog in your own way and as positively as you could. I'd love to see pictures if you have them. I don't think I've seen you post any.
Some additional quotes that may be of interest:
"Shade is an exceptional and unique trainer; she is known throughout the Schutzhund world as being one of the only trainers who trains without physical corrections AND competes successfully at the high levels with impressive scores. Her approach to training is creative, practical, and always focused on what's best for the dog and the relationship. Shade has an amazing perspective and wonderful words of wisdom to share." - https://www.myschutzhundlife.com/single-post/2016/12/07/shade-whitesel-interview
"Reik cemented my reputation as a trainer who could remain competitive in Schutzhund at the National level, while not using correction based tools." - http://shadesdogtraining.net/shades-dogs
I think we can agree to disagree on this. If I didn't respect Boxergirl I wouldn't have taken her up on her suggestion to look into the trainer she admires most. My conclusions are based on personal experience in the same sport that Shade participates in. It opened my eyes to so many things and made me a better trainer. It's this perspective that makes me very skeptical, so when Shade says she competes without the use of an e-collar and makes no mention other collars, I take it literally. Doing the sport without an e-collar is totally possible. Doing it without any training collar whatsoever on multiple dogs is astronomically more difficult for me to fathom, so I leave it at that, but if she does it positively 70-80 pct of the time, I'd say it's a remarkable achievement. If she actually did it without any training collars, why wouldn't she say it? Shade does make money training dogs and she obviously markets herself as a positive trainer. Ads are done to bring in customers. It's business, I get it, that's cool. Totally positive is feel good stuff and brings in customers because it's what they want to believe. I'm not interested in feel good, I'm more interested in the truth whether or not it's what I want to believe.
BTW Schutzhund/IPO is not something every dog can do. In fact, only a small minority of dogs can do it. There are so many factors involved in doing IPO at the highest level with no corrections. First it has be in the dog's nature, and furthermore the dog has be one that will offer every behavior voluntarily, and many of those behaviors are counter intuitive to each other (ex. biting the sleeve so hard that no one can take it away, doing it under the pressure of stick hits, but also letting go instantly on command). It's asking a lot!
Unfortunately, I don't have any videos of my dog doing the retrieve because at that time we didn't have smartphones. I did post a video earlier of my dog in a protection trial thanks to a generous friend with a video camera that I met at the trial, but this thread is not about me so I won't re-post it here, but anyone is welcome to search for it.