I need help. Serious medical

[angelbears]

Some may not even know but we got a new EM puppy, Justice. He is 14 weeks old, we have had him for 5 weeks. He had a seizure this morning. I think. We just got back from the vet. Of course the suggestion is wait to see if he has anymore. I've had seizure dogs. I can handle it. Here is the problem. He became very aggressive. I took a pretty good bite. If he was any bigger or had his adult teeth. It could have been pretty bad. I was not trying to hold him, I was getting in between him and Kismet. It was like he was trying to find anything to attack. The vet said that a seizure could affect the part of the brain that controls aggression and this could be how he will react. What the hell do I do when he is 250 pounds and charging us? I'm just sick and confused.

I didn't get a fila because we are getting to old to control an aggressive dog. Justice is a wonderful puppy. Honestly, the smartest one I think I have ever had. He has the typical puppy mouth and sharp little baby teeth but not a vicious bone in his body. Except he doesn't seem to like the neighboring dogs. Anyways, I need to brainstorm. I need ideals thrown out here of what to test for. I need suggestions on how to keep everybody safe if he has another one. Of course Kismet and Jezzy ran to him, that is how I got bit

One other thing, 8 days ago he started to limp, I took him to the vet, he didn't think it was bad enough to go full crate rest but to keep activities down. The limp does seem to come back with the slightest bit of activity. Could this tie into the seizures? Are EM's prone to seizures? I know DDB's are but I don't recall it being a big deal with EM's. Just throw stuff out to me. And PLEASE send some good karma. He is a wonderful pup and very loved.

 

[Hiraeth]

Have you spoken to your breeder and asked about a seizure history in the lines? Any reputable breeder would want to know if a 14 week old puppy produced in one of their litters was having seizures.

The limping could be a lot of things and most likely isn't tied to the seizure. Pano, HOD, etc. Is there inflammation in the joint of the effected leg? Does the limp change legs or stay in the same one?

How long have you been with your vet? Any vet who would simply dismiss limping in a giant breed puppy is (in my book) a bit suspicious. Also, if they aren't recommending testing for the seizure and saying "wait it out", I'd be unhappy. I know someone with a 4 month old Great Dane who started out having seizures and ended up having brain surgery over Christmas because of a large but operable brain tumor. Preventative testing, not reactive testing, should be done (again, in my opinion).

 

[Hector]

OMG this is terrible!!!! Poor young Justice! There is no way you can stop a dog that big when it becomes aggressive especially when it has no control over what it's doing. If you can identify some triggers before a seizure that might help. Please keep us posted. This is so very unfortunate.

 

[angelbears]

Thank you Hiraeth!

I happy you replied. I follow your postings and respect what you have to say. Honestly, I haven't found a vet that I like in years. As far as the limp goes it was/is minor and not constant, it stays in his right back leg. He examined Justice didn't think there was a break, said he was pretty young for Pano and if it was HD, he said at this age their joints are still pretty much jelly and nothing would be conclusive at his young age.

His regular vet was not in this morning. So we saw a very young vet. She did a complete blood workup, it came back normal. She did say she would refer him to a neuro but she felt that if it was a tumor or a bacterial infection of the brain/spine he would have another seizure and soon. At that point she would refer him as an emergency patient. As it stands he will have to wait a couple of weeks just to get in being what they would consider non emergency. Your thoughts on their reasoning? And thank you!!!

 

[Winter's Cinder]

I really can't offer any advice as I new to this breed... but i will definitely give you and your pup prayers to find the help you need and that it will hopefully be a good and treatable outcome!!

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[angelbears]

OMG this is terrible!!!! Poor young Justice! There is no way you can stop a dog that big when it becomes aggressive especially when it has no control over what it's doing. If you can identify some triggers before a seizure that might help. Please keep us posted. This is so very unfortunate.

I'm sick Linda. He is everything I dreamed of and more. I just don't know if I can take more heartache.

 

[angelbears]

I really can't offer any advice as I new to this breed... but i will definitely give you and your pup prayers to find the help you need and that it will hopefully be a good and treatable outcome!! Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

Thank you very much!

 

[Boxergirl]

AB, I'm so sorry. What does your breeder say?

My only experience with seizures was my girl Greta. She was three when they started and she could be aggressive during them, but didn't look for things to attack. If you were in the way, you got bit. Human or dog. The diagnosis was idiopathic epilepsy due to a benign brain tumor. Now I have to say that at the time we were very poor and I didn't take her to Purdue to verify that diagnosis. Because I couldn't do that, we were told it was either a tumor that would continue to grow and we'd lose her, or it was a benign tumor that was likely in an inoperable area. I kind of don't think it was a tumor, honestly. I leashed her to me for a very, very long time and I documented everything. I ended up knowing what she was going to do before she did it. I was able to identify many of the triggers - smells, flashing from the tv, Sympathy For the Devil by the Stones (no kidding), and she was unable to take Heartguard or any heartworm pill with Ivermectin. As she aged, her seizure activity increased after vaccines so we stopped vaccinating. She was a very, very good dog. The one that alerted to my daughters low blood sugars. But she had to be managed and the kids had to learn the signs and what to do. And what not to do. Again, she didn't go looking to bite. You just had to stay out of her way. Her seizure activity decreased significantly for a period of time after she had an injury that required a corticosteroid shot. I did some reading and started supplementing her with turmeric for it's anti-inflammatory properties and it helped a lot. She died at 10 from congestive heart failure, so it was unrelated to her seizures.

None of that was particularly helpful to you. I'm sorry. I wish I could actually say something that would be. Please let us know what's going on and I'll be keeping you all in my thoughts.

 

[TricAP]

Oh AB! Sending all the good vibes we can your way! I feel for you and finding a vet you can trust. What about getting Justice into A&M Veterinary Hospital? You are pretty close to College Station right?

 

[Hiraeth]

Thank you Hiraeth!

I happy you replied. I follow your postings and respect what you have to say. Honestly, I haven't found a vet that I like in years. As far as the limp goes it was/is minor and not constant, it stays in his right back leg. He examined Justice didn't think there was a break, said he was pretty young for Pano and if it was HD, he said at this age their joints are still pretty much jelly and nothing would be conclusive at his young age.

His regular vet was not in this morning. So we saw a very young vet. She did a complete blood workup, it came back normal. She did say she would refer him to a neuro but she felt that if it was a tumor or a bacterial infection of the brain/spine he would have another seizure and soon. At that point she would refer him as an emergency patient. As it stands he will have to wait a couple of weeks just to get in being what they would consider non emergency. Your thoughts on their reasoning? And thank you!!!

If the limping doesn't change legs and the joints aren't at all inflamed, it's probably not HOD or Pano. Perhaps just growing pains or a minor soft tissue injury that he tweaks when he tries to play.

I'd get the neuro referral, call several in the area and see how fast you can get in. Put yourself on a waiting list in case they have an appointment cancellation and can fit you in even sooner. When my dog was diagnosed with a potential cancerous tumor, I called five oncologists in my area and went with whichever one had the earliest available appointment. They had a cancellation and got me in two days after my phone call. I hope you get that lucky.

As far as in the mean time - I'd think that activity restriction and keeping a really close eye on him for signs that he's about to seize would be the way to go. Wobbly or unsteady gait or excessive drooling are both signs of potential oncoming seizures. Also, keep something around you such as baby gate or even a baseball bat that you can use to calmly herd your dogs away from him without getting too close to him and risking another bite if he has a seizure. Try not to yell at the dogs and to stay calm - even though he's having a seizure, he still knows what's going on around him and yelling/stress can raise his panic levels even further.

Try to time how long the seizure lasts (which will be difficult, but just an approximation can help). If the seizure lasts for longer than 5 minutes, he will be at risk of overheating. While staying away from his head, aim a fan at him and if possible, moisten his abdominal area and rear paws with cool water to try to keep his body temperature down. Just stay with him and speak in a calm and reassuring tone until he comes out of it.

There isn't much else to be done until you can see a neurologist, I don't think. It could be something as simple as a disorder that seizure medication can control, or it could be something not so simple. I would think the neurologist will most likely want to do an MRI and then maybe a PET scan. Is he insured? It might get pricey pretty quickly to figure out what's going on and then to proceed with treatment.

 

[Boxergirl]

A small seizure can be just staring at the wall and twitching. That's how Greta's started. Staring and her cheek twitched. We laughed and joked that she "saw dead people" like the kid in the movie. Felt bad that we missed it later.

 

[Hiraeth]

A small seizure can be just staring at the wall and twitching. That's how Greta's started. Staring and her cheek twitched. We laughed and joked that she "saw dead people" like the kid in the movie. Felt bad that we missed it later.

My experience with animals who have seizures is that they go up, and not down, in intensity. Did Greta's fluctuate between mild and severe?

Looking for signs of smaller seizures is a good idea, though. It would be unusual, in my experience, for him to have minor seizures after having such a major one, but it could happen and that could be vital information for your neurologist.

 

[Boxergirl]

Hers got markedly worse over time. We missed those early seizures, which is why I mentioned it. It was only after a larger one that we realized what we had been seeing had been small seizures.

 

[angelbears]

Thank you everyone. In the middle of a small crisis. Justice just puked some nasty smelling and had a soft bowel movement, rather large. He is raw fed and his poop is actually beautiful as far as poop goes. When I took him in 8 days ago they had a parvo puppy could this be parvo? Seizures???? I'm going searching internet.

 

[TricAP]

Yes it can! Did they test for parvo when they did the blood work?

 

[angelbears]

NO. He had no symptoms until we got home. We are going straight to the vet now for a test. TY

 

[danielleconn]

Thinking of you all!! Prayers & hoping all goes well....

 

[tlov]

I have nothing to add that could help, but I'm so sorry he is going through this. I will keep you guys in my thoughts and prayers.


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[CeeCee]

Oh AB!!! I am so sorry! I have no experience with seizures in dogs. So I can add anything there, but I will remind you don't get a head of yourself (you're worrying about a 250 lb dog). Breath. Trust. Take it as it comes. I am praying with all my being for Justice and you and Debra! Justice is strong and he has you and Debra in his corner - that right there is more than half the battle!! I am visualizing Justice strong, healthy, seizure free 250 lb beautiful adult dog...being pushed by you in a Target cart. Love you!!! Please let us know what the vet says.

 

[7121548]

Oh wow. I hope you're able to get some answers soon. Best of luck to you and Justice!