What's new
Mastiff Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Welcome back!

    We decided to spruce things up and fix some things under the hood. If you notice any issues, feel free to contact us as we're sure there are a few things here or there that we might have missed in our upgrade.

Mastiffs for beginners?

Fineand_Dandy

New Member
I understand Mastiffs aren't typically classed as 'beginner dogs', but I've found myself drawn to the Dogue De Bordeaux. Although I do feel that they suit my lifestyle, I'm unsure whether this is a smart choice considering that this will be the first dog of my own (and I was only raised with pastoral and terrier breeds).

As Mastiff owners, do you think I should opt for a different (yet somewhat similar) breed in order to prepare to one day own a Mastiff? I know I ultimately want to go down the giant breed route. Other breeds I've been considering are the Newfoundland and St. Bernard. From my understanding, they tend to be a bit softer and easier to handle in general.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
Fineand_Dandy, I suggest that you spend some time browsing the forum for posts from a member named Marke. He hasn't been around in quite some time, but he had some of the most athletic DDBs and Bullmastiffs I've ever seen and was extremely knowledgeable. I would also suggest contacting some responsible breeders of the breeds you are interested in and talking to them about what you're looking for and what current dog owning experience you have. If you need help determining who is a responsible breeder, please ask and I'm sure someone here will help.

As for the advice you received above, I'd suggest disregarding it. It is not based on life experience owning or training the breeds he is discussing. He has strong opinions, but not practical knowledge from working with or owning these breeds. Some of the cross breeds and breeds he is suggesting are also considered to be a lot of dog for a first time owner. Especially if you do not plan to actively work your dog. If any of the breeds suggested to sound appealing, please do your own research.
 

glen

Super Moderator
Staff member
I understand Mastiffs aren't typically classed as 'beginner dogs', but I've found myself drawn to the Dogue De Bordeaux. Although I do feel that they suit my lifestyle, I'm unsure whether this is a smart choice considering that this will be the first dog of my own (and I was only raised with pastoral and terrier breeds).

As Mastiff owners, do you think I should opt for a different (yet somewhat similar) breed in order to prepare to one day own a Mastiff? I know I ultimately want to go down the giant breed route. Other breeds I've been considering are the Newfoundland and St. Bernard. From my understanding, they tend to be a bit softer and easier to handle in general.
Welcome to the forum, my suggestion would be to meet some of the breed, talk to the owners, do your homework on breeders.
You can have any breed that can be challenging, doesnt have to be a mastiff,
Mastiffs arent a background dog, they love attention, you need to have time for them.
Good luck, any other questions please ask.most people on here have good advice. Please ignore the 1 that doesnt.
 

glen

Super Moderator
Staff member
BTW I have a friend who had a Dogue De Bordeaux crossed with American Pitbull Terrier and it was STILL lazy and useless, got bred to another dog and the pups were so lazy and useless they all got desexed. Truly disinterested in any sort of activity.
Its such a shame some humans arent de sexed when they produce humans that come out with such nonsense.
 

glen

Super Moderator
Staff member
Well you're not even allowed to know shit about dogs in the first place because you're from England. Australia, South America, Southern USA, Africa, to a degree India, Japan and Pakistan... these people are familiar with the Mastiff breeds. These are people with relevant opinions who know something and have tried a bunch of stuff to gage which is worthless bullshit and which is not worthless bullshit. DDBs fall into the "worthless bullshit" category. Every dog on Earth, even a pug, is more eager to do something than them. EVEN when crossed to pit, grey, ebt, sbt, staghound, bull arab etc. etc. DDB blood is just a total fucking curse.
England, Canada... anyone who runs a dog forum is obligated to ban anyone from those areas.
Europe is a runner-up but people from Europe can teach about LGDs and Laikas. Perhaps wolves too. Though most of Europe is ALSO shitty for dogs, especially Mastiff breeds. They have no business being there.
What's your dog's favorite kind of tea? Would it like toast to go with that?
They really dont like tea, but they are quite partial to a bit of frozen little man syndrones thats in the freezer thats attempted to get on the property, cant beat a bit of raw.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
Seriously though, Fineand_Dandy, even do some serious research into Saints and Newfies. My daughter is a veterinary technician and works heavily with behavior clients and she sees many of those two breeds that have behavioral issues. It's really imperative to make sure you have a really good breeder that breeds for health and temperament. They aren't necessarily softer dogs than the other breeds you're interested in.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
Newfoundlands are absolutely softer than DDBs and St. Bernards. Closer to Labs and Goldens than they are to DDBs and St. Bernards. DDB and St. Bernard are both combat dogs with combat genetics no matter how deformed or big they are, the Newfoundland is essentially a large Labrador. It is absolutely insane to suggest they are remotely close to DDBs or St. Bernards at all. There is no way a Newfoundland doesn't end up pissing itself at any sort of threat of violence or combat. DDBs and St. Bernards ease into a fight like an old man into a hot bath. Tell me in what world is a Newfoundland as hard as a DDB or St. Bernard???
To clarify - what I meant was that is seems not uncommon for many Newfies and Saints to present with behavioral issues, including fear/fear aggression/dog aggression/etc. Bolushi, the majority of the people on this forum don't care about how a dog will fight. They want a family companion. That means finding a dog with a good and stable temperament.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
I've never seen a St. Bernard with fear, fighting dogs generally don't have that. Dogs with self preservation have that, like Newfoundlands. The fighting dogs are invariably more trustworthy due to not suffering from fear issues. I'm not so sure how bad St. Bernards are or what you've seen but I know that a DDB is a very close relative to the St. Bernard and they have zero fear issues. Dogs like Newfoundlands who put on a ferocious growling and snarling display are actually a terrified dog saying "I will cause WW2 and take over this entire country and turn you into a paste!". While a St. Bernard or DDB doesn't really care. They will ignore you. If somehow annoyed (a great feat) they will display those signs out of restraint, then it might bite you, then it will maul you. A human, I mean. It's a "don't fight me please I don't even like the taste of humans" as opposed to fearful panic.
Newfoundlands don't really have dog aggression and if they do they have no inclination to fight through adversity. So bashing their head in with a brick or using a hose or beating the up etc. etc. is an easy remedy. Something that won't work on a St. Bernard or DDB. All dogs are happy to fight, Newfoundlands are a dog, anything in the "Canis" genus will fight without too much issue. So "dog aggression" in a Newfoundland is a result of... having a dog I guess? You can beat the dog aggression away violently like I've seen done many times, and the dogs since refused to fight another dog. Most people don't like that idea, to they and their dog's detriment.

Bolushi, your "facts" are based on anecdotal information found on the internet rather than actual life experiences. You are correct that much (perhaps it can be argued all) aggression is due to fear but that doesn't make it any less dangerous. I'd say it makes it more dangerous. While you aren't always completely wrong, you also aren't right. You make broad statements like "zero fear issues" and "all dogs." Real life isn't that cut and dried. Part of growing as an adult is to keep an open mind and to keep learning. My daughter is a professional in the field of behavior and training as well as an elite fear free veterinary technician. She's deals with many breeds daily and I've dealt with my fair share as well in rescue as a foster and trainer for behavioral and health cases. I'll take real life experience over anecdotal internet information from a child any day.

Bottom line is that every person should do their own due diligence and find a responsible breeder that can help them find the correct fit for their lifestyle. Doing this improves the chances of a good fit and means fewer dogs are given to rescue or euthanized for behavioral issues. As for training - thinking that beating any animal is a good way to train makes for a pretty despicable human.
 

Smokeycat

Well-Known Member
I understand Mastiffs aren't typically classed as 'beginner dogs', but I've found myself drawn to the Dogue De Bordeaux. Although I do feel that they suit my lifestyle, I'm unsure whether this is a smart choice considering that this will be the first dog of my own (and I was only raised with pastoral and terrier breeds).

As Mastiff owners, do you think I should opt for a different (yet somewhat similar) breed in order to prepare to one day own a Mastiff? I know I ultimately want to go down the giant breed route. Other breeds I've been considering are the Newfoundland and St. Bernard. From my understanding, they tend to be a bit softer and easier to handle in general.
My second dog was an English Mastiff and my first dog was only 10 months older than him so basically I still counted as a beginner dog owner as I didn't have dogs growing up. The biggest thing I can recommend is to be really honest with yourself about what you can handle from a dog. Kryten was extremely stubborn and protective when he thought there was cause. I had to do a lot of training to make sure he accepted that if I said things were OK and that I could handle it he would stand down. This can be achieved by positive training methods despite what others have stated, it just takes longer with more effort on your part. It also leave you with a dog that trusts you even when things are bad which makes for a safer dog in my opinion.
I do believe that as long as you do your research and are honest with yourself about what you want from the dog and how you plan to achieve that result any breed can be a dog owners first dog.
 

glen

Super Moderator
Staff member
"Anecdotal information" as in observing trends consistently over the years? Eventually "anecdotal" information becomes fact when there's 0 evidence to the contrary. My "anecdotal" information on DDBs for example, comes from a few 1000 in rural Australia. Now they don't exist there, because they suck at being outdoors and don't want to do anything. Australia tries all sorts of ruined show dogs, and DDBs are a no-fly zones. Neapolitan Mastiffs? Great. Irish Wolfhounds? Amazing. English Bull Terriers? Awesome. Great Danes? Cool. Bullmastiffs? Excellent. English Mastiffs? Decent. Boerboels? Ok. DDBs? Bad. Overheating, stamina deficiency, chronic laziness... all of that is a DDB thing.
Well see I don't need to have "life experiences", I've spent 1000s of incredibly unhealthy hours talking to people who do have life experiences. I am also basing my statement off of their genetics. You all get way too excited about "breeds", I don't work that way. I see 2 dogs with a similar place on the family tree, and calculate they should act similarly. It all checks out perfectly. The difference between the 2 is the St. Bernard is around 50% sighthound and 50% bulldog while DDB is all bulldog. And then Newfoundland is something related to the retrievers or whatever, a soft dog all around. I don't need to know St. Bernards or DDBs, I knew a pitbull, good enough. Comparable deal, temperamentally. BTW how would you know I'm a child? Lol.
The dogs aggressive out of fear are more dangerous, I agree. Far more dangerous in general, more likely to attack, but not inclined to relentlessly continue its attack. Hence why they're 100x easier to piss off than dogs who don't get aggressive out of fear. Maybe my experiences with pet dogs are better than everyone else's because of where I live?

Beating an animal is a good way for said animal to never ever repeat the behavior again. Particularly necessary if you live with "dog moms" who would cry if their pampered pet dog met a dog who didn't subscribe to such bullshit and began to ragdoll said dog violently across the ground. From then on you have 3 options -
Do nothing and if it happens again just GTFO as soon as possible.
Keep your dog away from other dogs.
Beat the shit out of your dog on the spot so it doesn't happen again.
All of these = saving your dog from authorities but if you want your dog to have more freedom/be trustable and be fully dog-proof option #3 is best.

I know a dog who has gotten considerably nicer since getting its head bashed in with a wood plank trying to tear its cousin to pieces. Said cousin is the dog in my PFP, who is also always the instigator but of course he is severely outmatched and can't do any meaningful damage in return. Life isn't fair I guess.
My friend's Bull Arab almost killed his Kelpie, beating the shit out of the dog solved the problem and now the dog just isn't dog aggressive at all.
Catch dogs who show dog aggression also get beaten up and don't show dog aggression again. Amazingly it works on catch dog APBTs, like ADBA registered ones. Not actual fighting ones that view other dogs as prey that must die but yeah it works on even gamebred dogs.

Dog training and hiring dog trainers sucks. If you saw the video of the Bull Arab messing around with the kangaroo and the owner punches it, that's how a "dog-proof" dog behaves in the face of another dog. The Bull Arab walked up to the kangaroo and knew it wasn't supposed to attack but it was curious, it was more afraid of the owner about to knock it upside the head than the kangaroo locking its head. (which it could easily break out of and kill 100s of kangaroos, they're like deer)
Im trying so hard not to rise to your lack of true experience with dogs, but the utter shit that comes out of your mouth re beating dogs is appauling, yes im from the uk, yes bad breeding goes on here, but all my dogs have been from imports, even back to our first rottweiller 35 years ago.
Now with many dogs under our belt all of them large breed, challenging, dominant, not one have we ever used physical force with, with responsible owners and proper training,proper care of the needs of the dog, your end result is a well adjusted dog which is a family member, that will gaurd and protect you. And yes unfortunatly it was proven, they worked as a pack and got the wanna be burglar. Yes i was proud of my boys, but i dont have them to bite people.
My first cc was dog aggressive, but we trained him to a high standard so it wasnt a problem, and we took him everywhere. No plank of wood was needed, infact if youve ever seen a cc go in attack when they mean it no plank of wood would stop them. Thats why training is a must and continious training throughout.
You seem to like a dog fight, its horrendous and a disgusting sport, anyone that enjoys it needs putting down.
So throw your insults at me, i really dont care,
What i want to finish off with is....to the op please ignore him, please take advise from the amazing boxergirl and smokeycat. Mastiffs are amazing and i hope you enjoy yours.
So bolusi please stop being a complete and utter plank.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
😂 That was a temper tantrum to rival my three year old grandson. Thanks for the laugh. I truly needed it today.
 

glen

Super Moderator
Staff member
Importing dogs is all well and good, but it's the UK. You wasted many a dog via raising them in the UK, UK dogs should be show labs or just nothing at all.
Not using physical force is trying to get your dog to understand a foreign language. If you are involved in training dogs, you are a loser. That is a fact. If your dog needs to be trained, you are a loser. And yes that includes personal protection dogs, if you have anything to do with those you are a loser. If you are a K9 handler maybe you get a pass but you may also be deemed a loser if using the training methods described via you.
Dog fighting is cool, if you're gonna like the bull breeds/gripping dogs/mastiffs to avoid being a muslim you are required to support dog fighting. Whether dog on dog if you own bull & terriers or dog vs wild animal if you own bulldogs/boarhounds/bull terriers.
Boxergirl is a fag, just for being a girl. Like literally go fuck yourself and stop owning manly dogs. Perhaps try again with scenthounds and bird dogs. (pointers are masculine, avoid those)
You can unfag yourself, like being a girl is all well and good if this is you:
View attachment 63923
If that's not you then go jump off a bridge you miserable cunt.
It works if the dog respects you and you're the owner, and it's attacking something it doesn't have an insatiable lust to kill. Otherwise sure, bash the dog's head in with an iron cudgel and the dog will shrug its shoulders and continue its attack. Ineffective if the opponent is something wild that must be attacked like a boar -
View attachment 63922
Thanks for calling boxergirl a fag, i had quit now iv lit one up.
Cunts can be useful so thanks, i wont jump off a bridge though, lost my arm bands,
 

Fineand_Dandy

New Member
Thank you all for your insight - it has been incredibly useful!

At the moment I'm leaning more-so towards the Newfoundland or St Bernard, but I think at this point I'm just going to continue researching my options. I really don't want to rush myself into choosing a breed only to perhaps later wish I had taken a different route.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
Thank you all for your insight - it has been incredibly useful!

At the moment I'm leaning more-so towards the Newfoundland or St Bernard, but I think at this point I'm just going to continue researching my options. I really don't want to rush myself into choosing a breed only to perhaps later wish I had taken a different route.
Are you set on a puppy? A breed specific rescue that utilizes foster homes may be a good option for you. I know when I fostered I made sure anyone interested in one of my dogs knew exactly what they'd be getting, both the good and the bad. The last thing I wanted was an unsuccessful placement, so I was always brutally honest. Just a thought. Good luck with your search.