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Meeting Strangers Outside

TylerDurden

Well-Known Member
Our EM (going to be 8 months this Sunday) is generally very friend, not shy and good with strangers. He‘s well trained and behaves well. However, I‘ve noticed that he started to observe/stare at people that walk by when we go out for walks. It is no problem when they are further away or on the other side of the street. However, as soon as they try to pass us on the same side of the street, he is trying to chase them. I can tell that it‘s most likely play, but a person might not like the thought of being chased by a 160lbs dog. I‘m sure he would never hurt anyone, but I can let this happen.
He does only do this when we are on his "route" for regular walks. He has never done this in pet stores or any other places? For some reason, it doesn‘t even happen with other dogs but with people.
Any suggestions? I put him in a sit and make sure he is calm whenever someone is trying to pass by. I will also start carrying treats at all times. This kind of behavior didn‘t start until he was 6-7 months old.
Thank you.
 

Steven C

Well-Known Member
It seems like some guarding instinct is coming out. I am not familiar with EM but I look forward to some of the responses from those that do own them. I'm not even sure if a prong collar correction would be good for a dog that large and going to get much larger. I think he is just becoming aware of his surroundings and becoming more protective in his territory is all. My DDB would stare people down until they were a 1/4 mile away, it was his favorite activity and he trusted no one. The only way I know and learned how to correct this is through corrections (small snaps of the collar or Cesar Milan "touches") and also your energy and confidence walking by those people. I go through this daily with my dog and with her its different people.

An example is the security guard came out behind us while on our walk the other night, it was drizzling out and he naturally was walking fast but behind us catching up to us. My dog had to turn back and bark him off and I understood that so no correction just a small snap to say that's it and we turned off the path.
 

TylerDurden

Well-Known Member
Thank you all. I‘ll discuss with the trainer, as well. At this point, I can‘t even tell if it‘s being protective or playful. I would think playful, so it shouldn‘t be too hard to fix at this point.
 

trg

Well-Known Member
Thank you all. I‘ll discuss with the trainer, as well. At this point, I can‘t even tell if it‘s being protective or playful. I would think playful, so it shouldn‘t be too hard to fix at this point.
You are probably spot on, he probably just want to interact with “new people”. He knows he will get that big ole head petted.
 

April Nicole

Well-Known Member
That is the age our E.M mix started to get very protective over us. We had to get him to ignore people. It took daily training. I would have him sit in front of me and watch me instead of the other people.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
I agree. I don't think this is play and I think it's likely to escalate if you don't handle it now. He's 8 months old, so this could be part of a fear period. Much of reactivity starts from fear. I would start with increasing your focus and impulse control work with him. At home and on walks. Pulling him to the side and having him sit and maintain eye contact while you reward is good. Make sure to keep your own body language loose and calm. It's easy to anticipate a reaction and unconsciously tense up and that travels down the leash alerting the dog that something's up. You want to change how he feels about the trigger. I would make the appearance of a person the best thing ever. You want people to predict great things, meaning that the appearance of a person means he gets great things FROM YOU. Not by paying attention to the person. At least that's what I want. I don't want my dogs to be social butterflies. I just want them to ignore other dogs and people and focus on me.

I was looking for a few different articles for you, but the website appears to be down right now. Take a look at this one though. It may not be exactly your situation, but the information is still applicable. I'll post the other information when the site comes back up.

(Just a reminder that I'm a believer in starting with the least aversive method first and giving the training ample time to work before moving to something harsher.)

http://www.drjensdogblog.com/from-crazy-to-calm-a-training-plan-for-leash-reactivity/
 

TylerDurden

Well-Known Member
I agree. I don't think this is play and I think it's likely to escalate if you don't handle it now. He's 8 months old, so this could be part of a fear period. Much of reactivity starts from fear. I would start with increasing your focus and impulse control work with him. At home and on walks. Pulling him to the side and having him sit and maintain eye contact while you reward is good. Make sure to keep your own body language loose and calm. It's easy to anticipate a reaction and unconsciously tense up and that travels down the leash alerting the dog that something's up. You want to change how he feels about the trigger. I would make the appearance of a person the best thing ever. You want people to predict great things, meaning that the appearance of a person means he gets great things FROM YOU. Not by paying attention to the person. At least that's what I want. I don't want my dogs to be social butterflies. I just want them to ignore other dogs and people and focus on me.

I was looking for a few different articles for you, but the website appears to be down right now. Take a look at this one though. It may not be exactly your situation, but the information is still applicable. I'll post the other information when the site comes back up.

(Just a reminder that I'm a believer in starting with the least aversive method first and giving the training ample time to work before moving to something harsher.)

http://www.drjensdogblog.com/from-crazy-to-calm-a-training-plan-for-leash-reactivity/

That‘s extremely helpful. Thank you very much (thanks to the other posters as well). I definitely need to do a better job. Whenever he is calm, in a sit, and maintaining eye contact, he is totally fine. I will try to work with treats of higher value to reward him for ignoring his surroundings. Interestingly enough, I can take him to crowded stores, parking lots etc. and he never shows any reaction at all to people. It‘s actually the opposite, he is very social and even allows people to pet him. The behavior described earlier would only occur on walks. Generally, he seems to be very alert on walks, while he is totally calm and relaxed in public/crowded places.
 

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
That‘s extremely helpful. Thank you very much (thanks to the other posters as well). I definitely need to do a better job. Whenever he is calm, in a sit, and maintaining eye contact, he is totally fine. I will try to work with treats of higher value to reward him for ignoring his surroundings. Interestingly enough, I can take him to crowded stores, parking lots etc. and he never shows any reaction at all to people. It‘s actually the opposite, he is very social and even allows people to pet him. The behavior described earlier would only occur on walks. Generally, he seems to be very alert on walks, while he is totally calm and relaxed in public/crowded places.

It might be because he's being guardy of what he considers his area, if you walk the same way all the time.
 

TylerDurden

Well-Known Member
It might be because he's being guardy of what he considers his area, if you walk the same way all the time.

It‘s pretty much the same way (at least similar) most of the time and not too far from home. However, he would also show this behavior in parks and other places that are far from home, so it must be somehow related to the walk (his lose leash walking is fine and he heels pretty well). I‘ve also noticed that he started to be more sensitive to loud (unexpected noises), which he wasn‘t before. Maybe that‘s a hint with regard to your mentioned "fear stage". I‘ve read about different phases throughout their lives, and believe that it is not uncommon between 8-10 months of age.
 

TylerDurden

Well-Known Member
Might be the start of leash reactivity. You definitely want to work on that quickly.

Yes, definitely. We are very committed. He‘s a wonderful and overall very well behaved dog, so I would hate for him being perceived as something he really is not. I talked to his trainer and she said that he might be testing boundaries. He has attended various group training classes, and is great with all the commands, but I might consider some private classes to focus on this one particular thing (in addition to the work that we are doing with him daily). This forum is awesome in terms of useful tips and first hand experience. Thanks again for taking the time to write such detailed and helpful responses.
 

Steven C

Well-Known Member
That‘s extremely helpful. Thank you very much (thanks to the other posters as well). I definitely need to do a better job. Whenever he is calm, in a sit, and maintaining eye contact, he is totally fine. I will try to work with treats of higher value to reward him for ignoring his surroundings. Interestingly enough, I can take him to crowded stores, parking lots etc. and he never shows any reaction at all to people. It‘s actually the opposite, he is very social and even allows people to pet him. The behavior described earlier would only occur on walks. Generally, he seems to be very alert on walks, while he is totally calm and relaxed in public/crowded places.

The same reason some trainers like to train more aggressive dogs away from home in the beginning. Less territorial out at those stores and parking lots.
 

TylerDurden

Well-Known Member
I thought I‘d share this: We just took him out for our long Saturday afternoon walk. We don‘t live in a busy neighborhood, but lots of people walk their dogs. Everything went really well, we utilized high quality treats, and making him focus helps tremendously. At some point, we walked straight into a "XL Dog Rescue" charity full of current and former Mastiff owners. He loved the attention and was great with everybody. A child who had just lost her EM a couple of weeks ago bonded with him immediately. We didn‘t know anything about this organization, but will for sure support it going forward. It was great to meet some "large dog people".
 

Steven C

Well-Known Member
I thought I‘d share this: We just took him out for our long Saturday afternoon walk. We don‘t live in a busy neighborhood, but lots of people walk their dogs. Everything went really well, we utilized high quality treats, and making him focus helps tremendously. At some point, we walked straight into a "XL Dog Rescue" charity full of current and former Mastiff owners. He loved the attention and was great with everybody. A child who had just lost her EM a couple of weeks ago bonded with him immediately. We didn‘t know anything about this organization, but will for sure support it going forward. It was great to meet some "large dog people".

How weird is that, running into a mastiff rescue that you had no idea about. Amazing. I guess these types of dogs are becoming more popular than I would have thought. Good job on the focus.
 

TylerDurden

Well-Known Member
How weird is that, running into a mastiff rescue that you had no idea about. Amazing. I guess these types of dogs are becoming more popular than I would have thought. Good job on the focus.

That‘s true. We just met another EM and a Great Dane a few days ago who live in the same street. I guess the large breed rescues need a lot of support, as food, equipment etc. is so much more expensive than for smaller dogs.
 

DennasMom

Well-Known Member
Denna is a social butterfly, and loves to meet new people - but we have a number of people in our neighborhood who appear to be afraid of big dogs. I've made it a habit from day 1, that when we see someone approaching, I pick a driveway or other good spot to stop, put Denna in a Sit, and have her focus on me as the person passes by. She no longer needs to focus on me, as she knows the routine... she sits and waits and then we move on once the sidewalk is clear again. I get a lot of "oh, what a well behaved dog!" comments from the passers-by. :)

Make sure you pick a spot far enough off the path of the approaching people, that your pup can focus on you and not feel a need to engage with the strangers. You might need to go half-way up a driveway to start. I go about 3ft off the path, or double a leash distance if the approaching group has a pup in tow as well.

Love that you met up with the XL dog group!!! That sounds like fun! And a great experience for your puppy, too. :)
 

ScottCO

Member
It's been over a decade since we had to correct our EM's behavior (RIP Higgins), but I remember ours doing something similar at around the same age.

I remember we would regularly walk him up to the entrance of a nearby busy shopping center/grocery store and just make him sit as people walked past him. I think this helped to get him more comfortable around strangers and learned that he can only approach to sniff when we say it's OK. Not sure if people are going to disagree with our training method or not. It really helped our EM though.

We thought it might have been a stage he went through where he became wary of strangers and somewhat skittish. We think it helped, but he could have just grown out of it. Most important was that he learned to never tug on the leash. Best of luck to you.