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My first Boerboel

Dan

Well-Known Member
The origin of the breed altogether isn't completely known. Come on lol. Every breed has "unwanted" colors or features (like a rotty will disqualifying colors or markings). It's still a rotty!!! The pic attached it my friends black boerboel "Big". You can't tell me he's not impressive and people are lined up to pay his stud fee!!! I guess everyone has an option. I'd be honored to call a dog like him mind, call him whatever you want!

View attachment 42000
That's a beautiful dog!
 

DMikeM

Well-Known Member
Well now I know the type of people I am dealing with. If your first thought is Studd fee when looking at a dog. I don't think you should own one. Thankfully the black dogs will be removed from the registry soon and all this crap will just go away, and people will stop spending stupid obscen amounts for mutt dogs that are not really Boerboels.

You are just another BYB in the making I feel sorry for your dog and her future.
 

jtrippps

Well-Known Member
Stud fee isn't my first thought but is one. I have a GIRL puppy lol!!!!! The black boerboel isn't going anywhere!!!! Regardless of what you say sabt has registered black boerboels. True or false.....TRUE! U can say all day that something doesn't exist but there is an association that says otherwise. Until that changes your just talking trash. Post when there's no association that recognizes and accepts them!!! In the meantime have fun with YOUR mutts!!!
 

DMikeM

Well-Known Member
When you can produce one of these we can talk about mutts.

Authentic Odinson - Thor ( Phoenix ) - EBBASA.jpg
Oh BTW Spitsvuur Netso's pedigree does not list a Michelle in his offspring, and Allens Virginia Gandalf shows no pups registered under his name. I am confused as to where these dogs actually came from. And I can't find an entry in the Boerboel pedigree database for Prominent Boerboe/s Kennel. I also don't understand where STL Michelle comes from is that STL kennels or Spitsvuur neither kennel shows an STL Michelle in there pedigree database.

Original statements from SABT/SABBA prior to rewriting the standard.

Statement about Black Boerboels


We must not confuse the issue of black Boerboels and the Development Register. The
Development Register is to keep a door open for lost- and/or new blood. The process is
strict enough to protect the current gene pool from pollution.

The matter of black is no different to that of white. We do not describe or accept white
dogs in the standard of excellence, but we also do not exclude them. Pigmentation in
the white dogs are normally the main issue, but those issues will be addressed by the
appraisal system. Black hair is actually sought after in the Boerboel. How many people
prefer a black mask as apposed to no mask? So, black hair color is already provided for.
We also accept 50% black or even more in some dark brindle dogs. There is enough
proof of the possibility of black manifesting in normal colored dogs - more even so when
you combine brindle.

SABBA is not accepting black as a color - there are three accepted colors, i.e. any shade
of yellow, brown or brindle. As piebald is accepted as a variation of the
brown, yellow and even brindle, so is black accepted as a variation of brindle. It only
makes sense. The question of cross breeds? (Rottweiler etc.) The appraisal system will
provide for DQ. I personally do not view this as a problem - it is about the quality of the
dog and not the color. The functionality lies within the pigmentation - not in the hair
color.

I am not aware of black dogs with paperwork. Therefore they will be dealt with in the
Development Register. In summary - black is not a recognized color. It is merely
accepted as a variation of the black in the brindle.

Johan van Wyk

SABBA Board Member: Genetics Committee
 

gilles

Well-Known Member
@DmikeM: i am a new member here and you seem knowlegaeable on dog breeds and standards etc... which makes you a valuable and respectable member of this forum, but i think you are too rigid on the subject of breed purity...i dont believe it is such an important issue and i do not believe that it will affect the health of the dog and so on if there is a mix in its blood. it does not simply make sens. rigid standards and rules are fine and must be set in order to conserve the characteristics of a breed and i respect the opinion of many associations but there is no need i think to just trash a dog because he does not conform 100% to the standards. i just look at a dog as a dog not as a set of written standards. that said: black boerbels are beautiful regardless what association accept them or not. Anyways breed characteristics and bloodlines are not a clear cut thing, i own a CAO myself who unfortunately comes from a pure fighting bloodline and he is the sweetest monster you can find, protective and fierce when need to be , but not a hint of useless aggression.
 

DMikeM

Well-Known Member
So then it is okay to mix a Poodle to a Doberman and register it as a Doberman? This is the same thing as mixing a Neo, Corso or Dane with a Boerboel just to get the fur to be black. I love the way these black dogs look, but I know that they are a mix and feel it is wrong to continue to feed these breeders that wont adhere to the standard just because they want to make a buck.
 

gilles

Well-Known Member
So then it is okay to mix a Poodle to a Doberman and register it as a Doberman? This is the same thing as mixing a Neo, Corso or Dane with a Boerboel just to get the fur to be black. I love the way these black dogs look, but I know that they are a mix and feel it is wrong to continue to feed these breeders that wont adhere to the standard just because they want to make a buck.
you have a point there, but i am not talking about the extreme cases like mixing poodle with doberman....after all new breeds are always coming out and they are created by mixing different breeds aren't they?
 

DMikeM

Well-Known Member
@jtripps yes they are. The price tag on these black dogs is typically twice the amount of the standard dogs. When you throw down a litter of 4 pups 2 black and 2 standard you can be walking out with $13,000.00 dollars. 5 grand each for the black ones and fifteen hundred to 2 thousand for the standard pups. Then you can say well the parents were black and now your standard pup might be worth 3 grand. So yes people will cheat and lie in the DNA tests and paperwork just like Muller Poppy and Muller lady the first 2 black dogs registered with SABT as brindle Boerboels.

@gilles, my example was no maore extreme than any of the other crosses I mentioned when you add different temperaments and sizes you are messing with what the founders put down as the breed. Notice how most of the black boerboels are bigger and more muscular than the fawns have a better angulation, a blockier head, wider stance? Think about it, something has been added that makes it "better".

I did not intend to trash on Dallas. But when i see the intent here it makes me pissed off. Who will handle the pups that Jim puts on the ground. What if they have issues like temperament or Dysplasia will Jim take the dogs back? What if they are 2 years old and the puppy buyer decides the dog is just too much for his family and asks Jim to take the dog back?

There is just so much to deal with and all I see right now is someone that wants a big black scary dog to breed with more big black scary dogs. This is not what the Boerboel is about.
 

jtrippps

Well-Known Member
I'm new to this forum so I don't know what led to such strong opinions but I actually feel like Mike gives a lot of good info/advice. In this case you have me all wrong. I am not a breeder. I have no intention on Dallas having any litters. She will be spayed at 6 months.

My desire to get a boerboel came from my meeting Big for the first time. To see such a powerful animal so well trained...I was in awe. I also have a wife with 2 children so a protective dog is ideal when I'm away.

Papers won't actually benefit me at all. The only reason I'm after them now is to have proof that Dallas isn't a pit bull (my landlord won't allow them). I still kick myself for not getting a tan boerboel with a mask to be honest.

All I'm saying is I wouldn't pay to fake a DNA test. I feel like all dogs like humans are a mix of something. The word "mutt" is a bit strong for a dog whose parents are known was my whole point.
 

Dan

Well-Known Member
Well now I know the type of people I am dealing with. If your first thought is Studd fee when looking at a dog. I don't think you should own one. Thankfully the black dogs will be removed from the registry soon and all this crap will just go away, and people will stop spending stupid obscen amounts for mutt dogs that are not really Boerboels.

You are just another BYB in the making I feel sorry for your dog and her future.
Mike
I think your contributions on this are way out of line.
You are coming over as aggressive and just plain rude.
I think you owe jtripps an apology.
 

gilles

Well-Known Member
^^^ yes Mike we got your point , but you were pretty harsh with jtripps to tell you the truth..i mean this is a dog forum after all there is no need for aggression:)
 

DMikeM

Well-Known Member
Jim I am happy to hear you do not intend to breed Dallas, the thought of another BYB of Boerboels just made me cringe I am actually happy to have been wrong. I hope that your breeder supplies you with the correct information about her breed. Also please consider waiting until Dallas is 18 months old before you have her spayed if it is possible for you. Early spay of mastiff dogs can lead to all sorts of health issues in the long term and in short term you can end up with a dog that has incontinence or leaking all the time.

Mutt is indeed a strong word and it is what is being "Slung" all over the boerboel pages regarding the black dogs. It is hard to not feel the compulsion to follow that trend when you are away of the issues at hand and how we got here. I have been researching this breed for about 4.5 years now and am still learning about it every day. When I first became aware of them all I wanted was a dog like Janieka Swartkat or Spitsvuur Ramkat both just awesome black dogs that were mind blowing on appearance and conformation. Then I discovered the mess about Pet Shop Jim and the Muller girls. I was even chatting with the owner of Swartkat one day making fun of the skinny dude pretending to have to hold him back, well he gave me an LOL and said well I guess I do need to put on some weight especially since he is such a powerful dog. Well of course I was embarrassed and apologized all over for my mistake but he took it in jest and we are still friends even though he knows my views on these black boerboels. I actually have several friends on Facebook that are owners of these black boerboels and at times we argue but we all know it is more about the breed rather than our pride. I have always told them if proof of existence is provided I will have a black boerboel or when Carin York-Hart finally breeds a Black Boerboel without a cross I will have one of those. (She is close too).

You have a beautiful family and I hope Dallas turns out to be a great guardian for them. Good luck and take care.
 

jtrippps

Well-Known Member
Thanks so much Mike. I enjoy talking about this amazing breed! I'm new and still learing a lot myself. I appreciate all the information. Dallas went to the vet today. The vet did mention dna testing. He predicted she'd be 75-80lbs!!!!!! I was shocked. She has been sick with her food change so she's a little behind, but I didn't think 33lbs at 14 weeks was that far off for a female. I think he's doubling her 4 month weight... I did notice that he said "What's that?" when I told him that she's a Boerboel. Should I take his estimate seriously if he doesn't even know what the breed is???
 

DMikeM

Well-Known Member
No don't take his estimate seriously.
I have not seen a Boerboel (especially the black ones) under 100lbs. Think around 120lbs as the goal, Jade is 127lb and feed her like she is 120 lbs but keep the protein in the low 20 percentile and no extra calcium.

Oh and if he does not have mastiff experiance see if there is another vet in your area. You do not want him to sedate your dog for anything if he does not know about them.
 
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jtrippps

Well-Known Member
Yea, I felt uneasy that he had never even heard of the breed. I'll keep looking around.

@Mike. How many dogs do you have? I know you have the 2 rotty/chow mixes, right?
 

DMikeM

Well-Known Member
2 RottenChows and 2 Boerboels.
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