What's new
Mastiff Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Welcome back!

    We decided to spruce things up and fix some things under the hood. If you notice any issues, feel free to contact us as we're sure there are a few things here or there that we might have missed in our upgrade.

Neutering?

DogueOwner

Active Member
Hello all, rather than post this thread in FB groups for Dogues, I thought it made more sense to share/get opinions here. Our boy is 1 1/2 and I am still on the fence about taking his manhood. If we were to neuter him, it wouldn't be until he was at least 2 1/2 or 3 because of the rate at which this breed matures, but by that time, what difference does it make? Everyone, and every Vet, has their opinions on the benefits and risks of neutering. For our dog, I am more against than for it. Challenge I see today is that if we need to take him to any doggie daycares, most will not accept intact males.

The internet is full of info, but the more I read about, the better I feel about keeping him intact.

Please share your thoughts and experiences. Thanks.
 

DogueOwner

Active Member
Forgot to mention that reading articles from a source I trust, Dogs Naturally, cites dogs are more prone to other cancers, not necessarily prostate, if you do neuter.
 

Cloudk

New Member
Hi. Unless you plan on breeding your dog, you should ALWAYS neuter them. Even if the dog is older(2 isn't exactly old) neutering them still makes them a happier dog. Here's a list of almost guaranteed positives which far outweigh the rare negatives, especially since the common things like obesity ect aren't issues if you're properly feeding and exercising your pet. From various sources(Dr Foster DVM, Blue Cross.org, and two personal experiences):

BENIFITS TO YOUR DOG:
*Neutered male dogs are less likely to roam, which means they*re less likely to go missing, get hit by a car, get in a fight and get hurt.
*Unneutered dogs can become frustrated and may try to escape.
*Castration significantly reduces the chance of them getting prostate disease and reduces the risk of some cancers.
*An unneutered dog is more likely to show aggression to other dogs, whether they*re on or off the lead.
*An unneutered dog is more likely to be the target of aggression from another dog.

BENEFITS TO YOU:
*An unneutered dog is much more likely to direct their amorous intentions towards your favorite sofa * or your visiting auntie.
*When a female dog is in season she attracts a stream of hopeful male dogs to the front door. In fact, male dogs have even been known to break down doors and fences trying to reach a potential mate.
*If your dog escapes and a female gets pregnant you may get the responsibility of having to try to find good homes for the puppies. Some breeds of dog can have as many as 12 puppies in just one litter. That*s a lot of mouths to feed and the costs will soon add up.
*License costs will often be lower
*You can take your dog to doggie daycare(also a benefit to your dog).
*Your dog will focus more on you instead of always on the lookout for potential rivals or mates.
 

DMikeM

Well-Known Member
If you are able to maintain a fully intact mastiff dog then let him be whole. You will just need to find more educated daycare facilities. I was certain I could prevent an unwanted mating in my home but I was outsmarted by a determined couple of dogs.
 

DMikeM

Well-Known Member
Hi. Unless you plan on breeding your dog, you should ALWAYS neuter them. Even if the dog is older(2 isn't exactly old) neutering them still makes them a happier dog. Here's a list of almost guaranteed positives which far outweigh the rare negatives, especially since the common things like obesity ect aren't issues if you're properly feeding and exercising your pet. From various sources(Dr Foster DVM, Blue Cross.org, and two personal experiences):

BENIFITS TO YOUR DOG:
WRONG *Neutered male dogs are less likely to roam, which means they*re less likely to go missing, get hit by a car, get in a fight and get hurt. It depends on the breed
Wrong (see above)*Unneutered dogs can become frustrated and may try to escape.
WRONG!!! *Castration significantly reduces the chance of them getting prostate disease and reduces the risk of some cancers.
VERY WRONG *An unneutered dog is more likely to show aggression to other dogs, whether they*re on or off the lead.
WRONG *An unneutered dog is more likely to be the target of aggression from another dog.

BENEFITS TO YOU:
MAYBE *An unneutered dog is much more likely to direct their amorous intentions towards your favorite sofa * or your visiting auntie.
Unaltered dogs seek out females in season too. *When a female dog is in season she attracts a stream of hopeful male dogs to the front door. In fact, male dogs have even been known to break down doors and fences trying to reach a potential mate.
True *If your dog escapes and a female gets pregnant you may get the responsibility of having to try to find good homes for the puppies. Some breeds of dog can have as many as 12 puppies in just one litter. That*s a lot of mouths to feed and the costs will soon add up.
True *License costs will often be lower
Find a more educated Daycare *You can take your dog to doggie daycare(also a benefit to your dog).
WRONG *Your dog will focus more on you instead of always on the lookout for potential rivals or mates.

Here is a link with about 55 studies that will give you the facts. Spay and Neuter Decisions - References

Here are the real Banes and boons to castration
Boons (Well kinda)

  • Infertility (Breeding issues can be resolved with proper containment and anxiety calmed by gentling.)
  • Reduction of Some Prostate Problems (Enlarged prostate be treated with Finasteride at the time of diagnosis.)
  • Elimination of testicular cancer (There is a 1% chance of this cancer; about half the risk of fatal anesthetic shock or post operative complications, and it can be remedied at the time of diagnosis.)
  • Reduction of Mammary Tumors (Spay must be performed before the second heat cycle to be effective. Tumors may be removed by surgery when diagnosed with a good prognosis for recovery.)
  • Personality changes resulting in...
    • Decreased aggression (Can be remedied with socialization and obedience training.)
    • Decreased roaming (Can be remedied with proper containment.)
    • Decreased chance of being hit by cars and shot by angry female dog owners while roaming (Can be remedied with proper containment.)
    • Decreased urine marking
  • Prevents Pyometra (Death rate is less than 1%.) and Reduces Risk of Perianal Fistulas
Now for the downsides
Male Specific Issues
  • Loss of testosterone; the male sex and growth hormone
  • Narrowing of the chest resulting in respiratory disorders
  • Failure to extrude the penis
  • Loss of testosterone is directly correlated to: heart disease and myocardial infarction, strokes and cardiovascular disease, senile dementia, osteoporosis and hip fracture
  • Increases risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma (by a factor of 1.6)
  • Increased risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment
  • Quadruples risk of prostate cancer(prostatic adenocarcinoma)

Common Issues

  • Anesthesia shock and surgical complications
  • Post operative pain and infection
  • Personality changes
  • Increased risk of obesity (triple risk in males, double in females)
  • Tripled risk of hypothyroidism
  • Increased risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer) in medium/large breeds when neutered before 1 year of age.
  • Cerebellar cortical abiotrophy (a neurological problem)
  • Doubled risk of urinary tract cancer
  • Increased risk of orthopedic disorders and hip dypslasia
  • Increased risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations
Female Specific Issues
  • Loss of estrogen; the female sex and growth hormone
  • Intervertebral disk disease
  • Myasthenia Gravis; muscle weakness
  • Altered moods leading to nervousness, separation anxiety, and digestive disorders
  • Doubled risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma
  • Five times the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma
  • Causes urinary "spay incontinence"
  • Three to four times the risk of urinary tract infections
  • Increased risk of recessed vulva, vaginal dermatitis, and vaginitis

[h=6]Complications of Surgery[/h] Surgery poses a risk to an animal’s health. Surgery is often justified to treat illness, but castrations are generally performed on healthy animals. Risks of surgery include anesthesia shock, internal bleeding (hemorrhage), and inflammation and/or infection of the incision; dogs also have a tendency to chew sutures. Complication rates for castration surgeries have been reported as being 22% for females and 19% for males. Death due to complications from castration surgery is low, with a rate of about 0.11% (1 out of 900).

[h=6]Increased Risk of Osteosarcoma[/h] There is an increased risk of bone cancer (osteosarcoma) in castrated dogs of both genders. In studies the risk increased as the size of the breed increased and showed that dogs castrated before one year of age were 2 to 4 times more likely to get bone cancer. Rottweilers are particularly susceptible to this type of cancer, and studies showed that rottweiler males neutered prior to one year of age were 3.6 times more likely to get bone cancer (a 28.4% chance) and that rottweiler females were 3.1 times more likely (a 25.1% chance).
[h=6]Increased Risk of Hemangiosarcoma[/h] This is a common cancer in dogs of either gender and is a major cause of death in Salukis, Bulldogs, Irish Water Spaniels, Flat Coated Retrievers, Golden Retrievers, Boxers, Afghan Hounds, English Setters, Scottish Terriers, Boston Terriers, and German Shepherds. In a case controlled study spayed bitches were found to have 2.2 the times higher risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma than intact bitches. A retrospective study showed that there was over five times the incidence of cardiac hemangiosarcoma in spayed bitches and 1.6 times the incidence in gelded dogs.
[h=6]Increased Risk of Prostate Cancer[/h] Neuter propaganda that says castrated dogs are at a decreased risk of prostate cancer is untrue. Prostate cancer is uncommon in canines to begin with, having an occurrence rate of about 0.6%. In studies performed in Europe and America, that actually used control groups, it was shown that castration increased a dog’s risk of prostate cancer by a factor of about four, to an occurrence rate of 2.4%.
[h=6]Increased Risk of Urinary Tract Cancer[/h] A study found that castrated dogs of both genders were twice as likely to get bladder or urethra tumors as intact dogs. These tumors are nearly always malignant but account for less than 1% of all canine tumors. breeds at elevated risk for this type of cancer are Airedales, Beagles, and Scottish Terriers, while German Shepherds have a lower than average risk.
[h=6]Testicular Cancer VS A Higher Risk of Other Cancers[/h] Castration of male dogs actually presents a hightened risk of death by cancer. Testicular cancer occurs in about 7% of intact male dogs. However the prognosis for complete recovery is very good, with a cure rate of over 90%. Statistics show, therefore, that less than 1% of intact dogs die from testicular cancer; which is less than half the occurrence rate of prostate cancer and/or osteosarcoma in castrated dogs. It is recommended that testicles that fail to descend be removed as they present 13.6 times the risk of developing testicular tumors.
[h=6]Increased Risk of Hypothyroidism[/h] Castrated dogs of both genders suffer three times the risk of getting hypothyroidism as intact dogs. This reflects the effects of sex hormones on the immune system. Hypothyroidism leads to lethargy, hair loss, and obesity.
[h=6]Increased Risk of Obesity and Diabetes[/h] A study found that spayed bitches are at twice the risk of obesity of intact bitches and that gelded dogs have three times the risk for obesity. A study in the UK found that 21% of dogs surveyed were classified as obese.
Some studies found that there was twice the occurrence of diabetes in gelded dogs as in intact dogs. Other studies showed no change either way. None of the studies showed bitches to be at a higher risk, spayed or unsprayed.
[h=6]Increased Risk of Adverse Vaccine Reactions[/h] In a retrospective study spayed bitches were 30% more likely to suffer adverse effects to vaccination than intact bitches and gelded dogs where 27% more likely to suffer adverse effects.
[h=6]Increased Risk of Urogenital Disorders[/h] Urinary incontinence is so common in spayed bitches it’s called "spay incontinence." Studies show that from 4-20% of spayed bitches will get incontinence while only 0.3% of intact bitches suffer this malady." Spayed bitches are 3 to 4 times as likely to develop urinary tract infections as intact bitches with an even higher risk for those spayed before 5 Å“ months of age. Depending on the age at the time of surgery; the younger the more problematic, spay causes deformation of the external genitalia; including recessed vulva, vaginal dermatitis, and vaginitis.
[h=6]Increased Risk of Orthopedic Disorders[/h] Surgical removal of the ovaries can result increased rate of remodeling of the pelvic bone and result in hip dypslasia. Spaying was also found to cause bone loss in the spine. Castration of immature dogs harms the development of bone growth, causing certain bones to grow longer then they normally would. This can result in narrowing of the chest bones putting a strain on the cardiovascular system, and in legs growing out of proportion, causing gait difficulties. Castrated dogs have twice the chance of getting cranial cruciate ligament ruptures; this may be associated to obesity.

"On balance, it appears that no compelling case can be made for neutering most male dogs, especially immature male dogs, in order to prevent future health problems. The number of health problems associated with neutering may exceed the associated health benefits in most cases."
From "Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay/Neuter in Dogs ― Laura J. Sanborn, M.S.
 

NYDDB

Well-Known Member
Thanks for posting that info, Mike; saved me the trouble of digging through my own studies. :)

To the OP, I own a male Dogue, he is intact and 3 1/2 years old. There is no way I would neuter him, based on all of the studies I have read, unless medically necessary.

But the real point, is that there is no reason to, in terms of behavior and training. He does not mark in the house, has never humped or mounted anything (or anybody), and does not seem "sexually frustrated" in the least.

Yes, there is sometimes an issue with other intact males, but that is to be expected; he is not a stuffed animal, and I was prepared for the potential of having to handle a large, powerful breed before I even got him as a pup. It comes down to training, and building up a trust and bond with you....

Of course, it's a personal decision, at the end of the day. But please don't feel pressered into it just because the vet is pushing you to do it, or because "it's what has always been done."
 

NYDDB

Well-Known Member
I should add that Mateo does have the occasional wet dream, maybe 2-3 times per year. It's no big deal, especially since I have hardwood floors.

I hope that's not too much information... :eek:
 

RockstarDDB

Well-Known Member
Hello all, rather than post this thread in FB groups for Dogues, I thought it made more sense to share/get opinions here. Our boy is 1 1/2 and I am still on the fence about taking his manhood. If we were to neuter him, it wouldn't be until he was at least 2 1/2 or 3 because of the rate at which this breed matures, but by that time, what difference does it make? Everyone, and every Vet, has their opinions on the benefits and risks of neutering. For our dog, I am more against than for it. Challenge I see today is that if we need to take him to any doggie daycares, most will not accept intact males.

The internet is full of info, but the more I read about, the better I feel about keeping him intact.

Please share your thoughts and experiences. Thanks.
After many many opinions on neutering i went to a well known vet that breeds Fila mastiffs.

1).From his opinion as a vet it can slightly decrease some cancers but not always.

2).Neutering in no way will make a dog less aggressive or change his temperament . It may Reduce marking.

3). It will reduce a dogs stress if there are females in season around the dog.

The rest in my opinion is Animal shelter propaganda to get people to neuter their pets.

Male DDB need testosterone . they need it for growth in muscle and bone . neutering before the age of 3 will reduce the dogs head size, bone structure , and muscle growth . DDB mature slower like all mastiff's and if your dog is of the larger variety he will mature even slower. All are required if you have a large DDB. As i said this is the Vet speaking not me. I am not suggesting neutering is bad . I just dont think a Male DDB should be neutered before he is completely mature and if your doing it to settle the dog or remove his aggression it will not. Some Temperament is from genetics, most is from socialization and improper or lack of training of the dog. believe me my first was not properly socialized and became a nightmare from the age of 9 months until the age of 3 . and i neutered him at 1 year.
 

DogueOwner

Active Member
Great info and insight. @NYDDB, mine is similar to your guy where he is not aggressive towards other dogs and has never marked inside the house. Outside is another story. Everything is his. :)

Really appreciate the the information (both sides) from DMike and Cloudk. I will look further into the link you provided, but I really so zero need to alter him. Most, if not all, do not understand this breed does not mature until 3. My guy is only 1 1/2, although semi-trained, still acts like a baby.

Thanks again. Happy Holidays.
 

Masong11

Well-Known Member
Hello all, rather than post this thread in FB groups for Dogues, I thought it made more sense to share/get opinions here. Our boy is 1 1/2 and I am still on the fence about taking his manhood. If we were to neuter him, it wouldn't be until he was at least 2 1/2 or 3 because of the rate at which this breed matures, but by that time, what difference does it make? Everyone, and every Vet, has their opinions on the benefits and risks of neutering. For our dog, I am more against than for it. Challenge I see today is that if we need to take him to any doggie daycares, most will not accept intact males.

The internet is full of info, but the more I read about, the better I feel about keeping him intact.

Please share your thoughts and experiences. Thanks.

One concern I had with my Male ( 16 months) was finding a dog center to watch intact males, very few would and the ones that would accept them wanted to kennel them all day with 15 mins supervised play time. The good news, I found a resolution and it has been great so far!

Rover.com

Tons of full time pet sitters that will either come to your home or let your pup stay at their house. All the pets sitters are prescreened with a description of what they allow/ don't allow, pics of their dogs ect. I found a pet sitter that is full time home with the dogs, lets my pup ( Apollo ) sleep in her bed even!

Its a great site, check it out.