What's new
Mastiff Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Welcome back!

    We decided to spruce things up and fix some things under the hood. If you notice any issues, feel free to contact us as we're sure there are a few things here or there that we might have missed in our upgrade.

protein percentages in raw

BAMCB

Well-Known Member
So I am wondering about the protein percentage in raw. I follow the 80/10/5/5 model and have been making the "meat" portion 30-50% green tripe. We are researching the protein content of the different meats and organs used and it seems to be averaging around 20-22%(some websites are a percentage or two off from others). Does this seem about right? I am needing to figure it out due to my princess Ava having some elevated liver values(?) and needing a low protein diet for the next 2 weeks. My vet assumed the raw diet was too high and recommended I switch to a low protein kibble until her recheck, but I am thinking there is no reason to do this. A bit of history. She has been raw fed for just short of 11 months. I have seen tremendous health improvements over that time. We recently switched her to a high protein kibble(Earthborn holistic grain free) diet and she was on it for 10 days, tops! More on that later but..... I saw immediately her bloated belly and lazy demeanor come right back so she is on raw again. Its only been 4 days shes been back on and her blood was drawn today. Could the kibble have elevated them? Maybe she does not process it well? IDK. She was fed green tripe only(no digestive upset when she eats it straight) tonight because that has a 15% protein value. She is also on antibiotics and Denamarin for 2 weeks and then a recheck. We are thinking to keep her on the green tripe only until then. Seem reasonable to anyone? Any insight or information on this? I do feel a raw diet is superior and do not want to switch to a low protein kibble. Thank you!!
 

karennj

Well-Known Member
I am interested to see what people have to say about this. I keep hearing over and over in the forums and facebook groups not to use a kibble over 28% protein but I figured raw must be very high protein and lots of dogs do just fine. I would love to know where this 28% is coming from and what studies it is based off of....Anyone have scientific data on appropriate protein levels?
 

marke

Well-Known Member
i've fed my dogs kibble with over 30-40% protein ever since i actually thought about their food .......... i've known some older dogs with kidney issues that needed to eat low protein food ......personally i take it all with skepticism , one internet protein one i remember is it makes your pup grow to fast .......... i think folks often see what they anticipate they are going to see , regardless of whether or not it's actually there ....... my dogues have eaten kibble their entire lives , bloating and lethargy have never been a problem ....... my dogs are active to hyperactive , and pretty athletic compared to any dog of any breed ......
DSCF1314.jpg
 

angelbears

Well-Known Member
Rough numbers here but meat is 70 to 80% water and 30 to 20% protein. It has been a few years and a couple of computers(where it was stored) ago. Since I have really looked at it.
 

BAMCB

Well-Known Member
Thanks AB, that's about what we were seeing too. The tripe was 15% from what we could find and she is on that right now for 1 meal a day.

Marke- I would tend to agree with you and have fed kibble to all my past dogs and the dogs I grew up with. All of them were fine, healthy and active. Ava is the only dog I can see a visible change in her. Others can see it too and she's lost weight(which proved extremely difficult on kibble) due to her huge increase in energy. I think she just has a more difficult time digesting it or something. Sonny is currently on kibble and there is no difference in him other than his stinky, large and frequent poops(yuk!). Lol
 

marke

Well-Known Member
i'm definitely not against feeding raw ,my dogs eat a wide variety of food including raw meat , kibble being the majority of what they eat ........ i think the biggest thing you see feeding raw is the reduced volume of food due to what AB stated about meat being 70-80% water ..... kibble being about 10% ........ if you raw feed 120lb dog 3% of his body weight per day , i think you'd feed them 3 1/2 lbs of meat , if .7 of that meat is water , your feeding the dog 16 ounces of solid food per day , 2 cups ........ if you take 2 1/4 cups of kibble and soak it in 40 ounces of water , and feed that amount to your dog per day , i'm pretty sure you'd see reduced stools , and lost weight also .......... the problem i see with kibble is it's easy to over feed ...... dogs do like to feel full , they can't do that on kibble ............
 

BAMCB

Well-Known Member
i'm definitely not against feeding raw ,my dogs eat a wide variety of food including raw meat , kibble being the majority of what they eat ........ i think the biggest thing you see feeding raw is the reduced volume of food due to what AB stated about meat being 70-80% water ..... kibble being about 10% ........ if you raw feed 120lb dog 3% of his body weight per day , i think you'd feed them 3 1/2 lbs of meat , if .7 of that meat is water , your feeding the dog 16 ounces of solid food per day , 2 cups ........ if you take 2 1/4 cups of kibble and soak it in 40 ounces of water , and feed that amount to your dog per day , i'm pretty sure you'd see reduced stools , and lost weight also .......... the problem i see with kibble is it's easy to over feed ...... dogs do like to feel full , they can't do that on kibble ............

Very interesting way to look at it! Makes sense. Thank you.

So this leads me back to wondering if the reintroduction of kibble could have been hard on her system causing elevated levels. If not, please let me live in my theoretical fantasy because I cannot handle another sick dog right now:(

I am going to go off of our calculations of looking up the proteins in our current mix and averaging them.
 

angelbears

Well-Known Member
Not sure if I can clearly say this but I'll try. Raw fed dogs often have blood work that is a little off of what the standards are. Lab work is based off standards, those standards have been set by kibble fed dogs. I could be completely wrong but that has been the explanation I have been given. It makes sense to me.
 

BAMCB

Well-Known Member
Not sure if I can clearly say this but I'll try. Raw fed dogs often have blood work that is a little off of what the standards are. Lab work is based off standards, those standards have been set by kibble fed dogs. I could be completely wrong but that has been the explanation I have been given. It makes sense to me.

Yes, definitely makes sense. Some of her values were off just slightly and my dr had no concern to those. Her ALT was 270(high norm is 120) and that is what she wants to investigate. I am trying to stay off dr google but it's becoming difficult;) I may break down after this hectic weekend is over(Right now we're preparing for 3 preschool aged boys to come over and play with ours. Throw Sonny in the mix and we're just screwed! Hahahaha)
 

dpenning

Well-Known Member
Can't remember where I saw this but it made me laugh. "Don't confuse your Google search with my medical degree" Google can be great but it can also make you crazy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

BAMCB

Well-Known Member
I am so happy that our youngest is 28 years old. LOL Dr. Google is a bitch but I can't live with her. :(

Well, we have a 21yr old son, 20 yr old daughter and a 4.5yr old son. Can you say "oops!" LOL

And that's a great saying! I always wonder what Drs have to deal with since all the patients are now self diagnosed
 

DennasMom

Well-Known Member
..so... what is your pup on antibiotics for? is there something other than the high ALT levels going on?

The SamE and Milk Thistle are good liver support supplements (that Denamarin is advertized as a 'concentrated form' of those supplments)

If you feel a need to reduce protein levels to give your vet's recommendation a try... your options are to switch meat & bone for carbs or fat, to keep calories even. I'd opt for a little of both. Higher fat cuts of meat and some frozen or pureed veggies (greens, broccoli, cauliflower, etc.). Low-protein kibble trades out meat for startch (potatoes or rice), which would be another option. I'd still stay away from grains like wheat or corn, though.

How much water is he drinking? Does he pee a lot? Any other symptoms of something amiss in his systems?

Here's some highly recommended info for kidney-diets (also low-protein) for dogs: DogAware.com Health: Diet for Dogs with Kidney Disease

I am a big "dr. google" advocate (just ask my DH, LOL)... but I dig as deep as I can go to find the actual science behind the fluff... it takes longer, but I feel better about it, then...
 

BAMCB

Well-Known Member
Thanks Denna! She is on the denamarin for support of function and, from my understanding, the antibiotic is to rule out any infection that could be causing a difference in levels. If, after all this is done in two weeks, her levels are still high then she may suggest further testing. No symptoms at this time except a weird nagging feeling I should have her levels all checked. Figured it was just nonsense because of Chica and the jacks but went with it for peace of mind. So glad I'm learning to trust my instincts!