Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

[allformyk9s]

Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

Rhys had his 1st vet appt this morning - I liked the vet a lot, she was really nice & spent about 45 mins with us - also sent me home with a 3 ring notebook full of information PLUS a puppy kit!


My big boy is up another 5 lbs - now sitting at 27.6 lbs. (He was 12 wks yesterday) Took him b/c more itching & I noticed some of his hair thinning out. So good news, no mange - its fleas. She brushed him for a few mins & finally found 1 -- so I got some holistic flea spray from there. His coat is pretty dry too she said.


She's supportive of the raw diet however suggested I add a multivitamin to their diet OR add some rice and vegetables. She said though raw meat is 'good' for them its lacking in some vitamins that they need. She mentioned that yes wolves eat primarily raw meat but they do eat some foliage & that wolves arent the best judge to make a decision for our dogs (in general) that wolves life span is about 5yrs, their typically under wt, dry coats etc..... makes sense. She said the garlic tabs prob. wont work to help prevent fleas, she has some holistic vet friends that say it just doesnt work plus too much could be dangerous *this I knew* so if its not going to work, theres no point so I'm going to stop giving them that. Not sure if I should add a multi vitamin or add some rice/vegs every day OR ugh I dont know!! I need opinions/thoughts with this! THANKS



As for neutering him we discussed that. We are doing it obviously but asked her when was the best age as far as him meeting his full size potential. She said 12-18months for that BUT also they've found neutering after the 2nd surge of testosterone (I believe is how she worded it) can reduce their risk of bone cancer. (She said large breeds have a higher chance of bone cancer, she's also a previous mastiff owner) So we'll be having him neutered between those months UNLESS signs of aggression show or he begins a horrible habit of humping everything, lol.

Overall great appt, he was so laid back at the appt that he slept through most of it :lol: Afterward we went to Petsmart, he met a few kids

 

[Chuma]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

Better to wait until 2 years of age to neuter... I am completely paranoid about fixing dogs before they are fully grown now.. I rescued a pregnant rottweiler and all her puppies found homes through a rott rescue. Thats all fine and good but they were fixed at 8 weeks old (I didn't know any better) and now the puppies who turned a year old in Feb now have to have serious surgeries on their legs costing upwards of $6000 for one of the dogs. Their growth plates have fractured, tendons have pulled away from the growth plates, their legs are now deformed and they bunny hop when they run. This IS from fixing to early.
Please wait until your pup is fully grown before fixing him. I'm not trying to scare anyone from fixing their dogs but I don't want anyone to have to deal with the heartache that I've gone through with these puppies...

Also I raw Feed my dog and it has cleared up her dry skin. I do not feed rice though. Raw meaty bones and organs (some veggies here and there).

 

[bullyBug]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

Congrats on your appointment! It's always awesome to find a DVM you like. Nice to see that your vet doesn't immediately dismiss raw feeding, but I don't like her analogy using wolves. Five is on the lower end of anything I've ever read, and it's not correct to imply their lives are shortened due to improper (or less than ideal) diets. (Assuming they're getting enough food, of course.) Wolves in captivity that are fed a species appropriate diet can live into their late teens, so her point is moot.

Wolves are the ideal animal (if there is any at all) to model our dog's diets after. They are so closely related that they are one of the few species that can breed with each other and produce fertile offspring. In fact, the dog is even a sub-species of the gray wolf. /rant

I would be interested in hearing exactly what essential canid nutrients rice and vegetables can provide that meat, organs, and bone do not.

My GSD was on raw for 11 years and didn't get a multi-vitamin. I did do other supplementation. He had perfect labs until the day he died. My Bullmastiff pup was getting one early on, but I haven't given it in a while. I'm currently looking at enzymes pro+.

I have nothing against commercial food, and recently decided to purchase a bag of kibble. It just chaffs the arse to see baseless arguments.

 

[angelbears]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

Ditto...I would most definitely stay away for the rice. With Cane we are very strict about sticking to raw meat only. Just last weekend we got a little lax, gave him a couple of licks of ice cream and some other processed food and the yeast was back in his ears like gangbusters. Lesson learned!

The other two, we are not as strict with. While their meals are meat only, we do, when Cane is not looking give them people food. I think it all comes down to what your dogs do best on.

I'm with bullyBug, I would love to know what nutrients they are missing by not having vegetables. In my research, I have not found any valid information to back that claim up. To the contrary, unlike humans, dogs do not have the enzyme, amylase in their saliva to help break down starches.

 

[Tiger12490]

I've never heard of wolves munching on corn and wheat or destroying rice crops but some say they eat the non digested crud in herbivores stomach but that can be for the same reason dogs eat grass upset stomach, easier bowl movement such....

Tapd on my Skyrocket

 

[Smart_Family]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

I don't understand what benefit rice would provide either or veggies since dogs don't digest veggies and they pretty much go in one end and out the other.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

I give Apollo fruit and vegi's cause he LIKES them, not cause I think he needs them. I DO give Apollo an occasional multi vitamin, but its a once a week sorta thing more than anything else, just to make sure we're not missing anything little. The only supplement I give on a regular basis is an Omega 3,6,9 cause he won't eat fish (it might help with Rhys's dry coat). I'd get the vet to detail what she's worried he's missing in his diet before making signifigant changes. On the whole though it sounds like a reasonably positive visit, so many vets have a FIT at the concept of a raw diet and that sounds like a reasonably positive reaction over all.

Garlic, some people swear it works for their dogs, others say they've tried it and it didn't help. Since to much can be bad (it takes a LOT, but....) I don't rely on it. I DO use Revolution and a Preventic collar cause we have HORRID misquito and tick problems here.

Neutering, somewhere in that 12 to 18 month span is probly right, definetly not earlier with a big breed unless there's a health or major other issue requiring it. Personally Apollo has shown so little signs of all of those "intact boy" type issues that even if we end up deciding to never show again I don't know that I'll bother neutering him.

 

[allformyk9s]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

Thanks everyone!!


Yes, I think she was a bit misguided in her comments regarding wolves & suggesting rice/vegs (Im not adding those, just dont see the need) or adding a multi-vit, I think this was *ONLY* b/c she sells them, pfft. She stated something about raw only w/out rice/vegs the dogs diets would be lacking in some vitamins like Vit B - oh and made a comment to me "Do you ever see your dogs eating grass?" after the appt I thought: Well yeah they eat grass but they also eat shit (literally), socks and all sorts of other things that they shouldnt but that doesnt mean its their part of their diet :/ *Not speaking of my dogs ie: eating socks etc..just dogs in general*


Im going to pick up some DE to try for the fleas.

Definitely airing on neutering him later than sooner as long as behaviorally he's ok.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

B vitamins are highly concentrated in turkey, liver and tuna (raw and un-processed of course), if you aren't cureently feeding any quantity of those it might be worth adding some to his diet. That way next time you can tell the vet he's getting plenty of B vitamins.

 

[allformyk9s]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

Good to know, they all get liver Interesting that the vet didnt know that b/c I put under diet "chicken, pork, liver & kidney" .... but whatever, its good to know those things have it & they are good via the Vit. B. THANKS

 

[ruthcatrin]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

Vets aren't nutritionists. They try, but when you consider how much they have to keep in their heads its not surprising they miss things. And thats without taking human bias into account!

 

[angelbears]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

Ruth in your opinion what meats must they have in their diet to be well balanced nutritionally? I have had people ask me is it okay if you can only afford to feed mainly chicken. I always hesitate with that one. If they can only afford chicken, then they probably can only afford a cheap kibble. Which is the lesser evil, I don't know.

BTW, I fed the cheap krabble for many years and had no problems but one problematic dog has changed how I look at their health in totality.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

Chicken would be ok (in theory anyway) ASSUMING its the whole chicken including organs. Organ meat is vital to making it work, and I think thats something alot of people miss when they first look at things. In reality I'm not sure I'd want to try, if only because my picky eaters will randomly decide they've had enough of X food and want something different.....

Its amazing what one bad experience will do to your perspective on foods huh?

 

[wolfsnaps]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

If you are feeding a balanced diet now (as in, the raw foods have vitamins, minerals, proteins, etc.) and then add a mulitvitamin on top of that, you are upsetting the balance.

If she ever brings it up again you should ask her exactly what is missing in a raw diet. She will probably hym and haw because she doesn't know. As long as you are feeding it correctly, it is the best you can give. Pffffft. Rice ......

---------- Post added at 11:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 PM ----------

I feed my dogs a prey model diet. The staple is chicken. Chicken is cheaper. I do also feed red meats but I definitely feed more chicken. I would say a chicken only diet (with organs and fish oil) is MUCH better than kibble. I would not compare a raw chicken diet to crappy kibble (of even high end kibble). The cheapest raw diet (chicken) is still better than the most expensive kibble IMHO. Raw chicken is not processed, it is natural. While I agree red meats are better, we can not always afford the best premium grass fed kobe beef. You do the best you can for your dogs.

That being said, there are many ways to add red meat in even on a budget.

 

[wolfsnaps]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

I feed my dogs a prey model diet. The staple is chicken. Chicken is cheaper. I do also feed red meats but I definitely feed more chicken. I would say a chicken only diet (with organs and fish oil) is MUCH better than kibble. I would not compare a raw chicken diet to crappy kibble (of even high end kibble). The cheapest raw diet (chicken) is still better than the most expensive kibble IMHO. Raw chicken is not processed, it is natural. While I agree red meats are better, we can not always afford the best premium grass fed kobe beef. You do the best you can for your dogs.

That being said, there are many ways to add red meat in even on a budget.

 

[allformyk9s]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

Im with you Wolfsnaps - my dogs primary protein is chicken b/c of cost. They do also get some pork (usually go through approx. 80lbs of pork/month) and chicken liver, beef kidney. Venison when I can get it for free on CL. And they all look great, their poops are perfect etc.... I think though this vet was nice she was very misguided on raw diet. PLUS I think she wanted me to buy her multi vitamins she had for sale...pffft! Im not keen on adding rice or vegs so I wont be & will be sticking to what Im doing b/c they all look, act & seem to feel great

And I second your "The cheapest raw diet (chicken) is still better than the most expensive kibble IMHO."

 

[musicdeb]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

I, too, feed Titan mostly chicken. He eats leg quarters, gizzards, and hearts. He occasionally eats beef livers, I'm dehydrating some now in my fridge. I sprinkle garlic powder on the chicken, otherwise, he walks away from the chicken. I do not feed Titan rice or vegetables. Sometimes, he will eat some brocolli and spinach but that's only the human in me thinking he wants the vegetables. As a dog, they do not need vegetables as long as you are feeding them meat and organ meats. That's my 2 cents~

 

[allformyk9s]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

Couldnt agree with you more Musicdeb

 

[ruthcatrin]

Re: Rhys vet appt & need advice (raw diet wise)

Apollo LOVES apples and will beg for them if we don't give him some, same for most other fruits, and some vegis. So we give them to him, but not because I think that he needs them for his diet.