Sometimes it pays to get a second opinion

[Colorado1234]

A
After months of going to the vet and watching Pax's skin get worse, more pustles and hair loss, I decided to go to a different vet. The new vet did a skin scrap on multiple areas of Pax's body and had 4 other vet tecs assist her with the scrappings. After analyzing the samples on a microscope they showed me the numerous cigar shapped demodex mites that were covering Pax's head. They put him on Ivermectin and simplifec(antibiotic) for a bacterial skin infection. Two weeks later and what a difference. His pustles are all gone and hair is gradually regrowing. He did not have any adverse reactions to the Ivermectin, which I was worried about and the antibiotic really helped his skin. Pax will be rescrapped in two weeks and then once again before stopping the ivermectin. However, both vets are still not ruling out food allergies so we are still completing a food trial with one protien source. All those vet appointments, thousands of dollars spent to find out that he has demodex, but at least he is getting better which is most important.
I am moving on from obsessing and worring about his skin and to focusing more on trainning. I have to admitt, I have spoiled and babied Pax because I knew he didnt feel good, probably not the best thing , but now that he is feeling better, I need to change my mindset. Pax is fully house trained and very socialized, but he plays very aggresively. He still nips at my hands and clothes while playing and becomes very vocal when excited. I have disiplined him by telling him no, but I have been very gentle with him, probably too gentle. He is only 5 months old so I know that this is a crucial time to teach him what is acceptable and what is not. Is it normal for pups this age to play very aggressively? And what is the best way to correct this behavior?

 

[DDSK]

Good job not letting go till you got answers, I'm sure Pax appreciates it now that he feels better.
Puppies can play hard, but you need to stop the nipping asap.
When he nips yell loudly ouch or owwww then stop all play, he will soon realize if he bites that play time is over.

 

[Hector]

Try telling him no and stuffing a toy in his mouth so he can't use his teeth or don't get him up to that level of excitement.

 

[DMikeM]

Actually this is good news and I am so happy to see you found the issue out. My only concern is that some dog people say that all dogs carry demodex and only dogs that are either immune compromised or in allergic response become infested. I don't know how much of that is truth.

I would continue the Ivermectin for as long as it takes. I am not sure what you are paying for it but you can buy the bulk type used in sheep and mix it down for real cheap. Let me know if you need the links for how to buy and dilute the Ivermectin for Demodex therapy.

 

[Colorado1234]

Thanks for all the good advice. I would like to check out the link for Ivermectin. Pax is on a pretty high dose 1.4ml because he weighs almost 90lbs, so getting it a little cheaper would help a lot. I read the same thing about demodex affecting immune supressed dogs and dogs with immature immune systems. I asked both vets about this and the most recent vet said that his immune system could of been compromisd from getting several coarses of vaccines in a short amount of time. I use to think that vacinating was the responsible thing to do but now im not so sure.

 

[DMikeM]

Here are the pages I know of.
DogAware.com Health: Ivermectin Dosage Instructions for Heartworm Prevention and Treatment of Mange
Here is the specific to Demodex link, DogAware.com Health: Ivermectin Dosage Instructions for Heartworm Prevention and Treatment of Mange
Here is a premix of .5% HeartwormPrevention.com

 

[DMikeM]

As for vaccines all I give is NeoPar 2 to 3 times and NeoVad D 2 to 3 times spaced out from 2 to 3 weeks starting at 8 weeks old. Then Rabies at sometime after 5 months and another at about a year later. Then rabies every 3 years and nothing else.

My puppies got vaccinated like this.
NeoPar 8 weeks
NeoVac D 9 weeks

NeoPar 13 weeks
NeoVac D 15 weeks

They can have one more of each of those shots again but I am not going to bother. They are covered.
NeoTech Vaccines, LLC
NeoTech Vaccines, LLC

 

[QY10]

Please keep an eye on your pup while he's on Ivermectin. My boy was on it twice for demodex mange and he had a very negative reaction to it. Ivermectin builds up in the brain, so prolonged use when a dog's body is not tolerant of it can result in seizures and can even be fatal.

My boy was VERY lethargic, refusing food, sleeping much more than usual, dilated pupils, drooling lots etc... when he was on Ivermectin.

We ended up using Bravecto, which has been pretty effective so far.

 

[Colorado1234]

Thanks Mike for the links on Ivermectin. Pax started on a very low dose and then increased very slowly to 1.4ml. He has been on it for three weeks with out side affects but I am still considering the MDR-1 gene defect test. From the research I have done some dogs have a MDR-1 gene defect which allows several drugs to cross the blood-brain barrier. This prevents the P-glycoprotien from doing its job, which is to flush certain drugs out of the brain and in turn preventing the drug from building up in the brain causing serious side affects. Washington State University has a veterinary clinical pharmacology lab that can test for the MDR-1 gene defect for only $80.00. I feel so bad for QY10's dog who had this sensitivity to Ivermectin. That is exactly why I was so reluctant to give Pax Ivermectin but my vet said that Boerboels are not known to have this gene mutation. Did your dog have an immediate reaction to the drug or did you notice it after a couple of weeks? Do you think I should have Washington State do the test even tho I have not observed any of the common side affects? I hope your dog was able to recover from the drug sensitivity and that the demodex is under controll. Thanks so much for the heads up. I have been worring myself to death over this dog and I am checking his pupils, body movements, drooling and energy levels every couple of hours. Im head over heels in love with Pax and I dont want to put him in danger, I just want these dam mites gone! Thanks so much and any advice or instructions on how to help Pax get through this are greatly appreciated.

 

[Colorado1234]

 

[Colorado1234]

Those are some pics of how the demodex affected his head.

 

[QY10]

Thanks Mike for the links on Ivermectin. Pax started on a very low dose and then increased very slowly to 1.4ml. He has been on it for three weeks with out side affects but I am still considering the MDR-1 gene defect test. From the research I have done some dogs have a MDR-1 gene defect which allows several drugs to cross the blood-brain barrier. This prevents the P-glycoprotien from doing its job, which is to flush certain drugs out of the brain and in turn preventing the drug from building up in the brain causing serious side affects. Washington State University has a veterinary clinical pharmacology lab that can test for the MDR-1 gene defect for only $80.00. I feel so bad for QY10's dog who had this sensitivity to Ivermectin. That is exactly why I was so reluctant to give Pax Ivermectin but my vet said that Boerboels are not known to have this gene mutation. Did your dog have an immediate reaction to the drug or did you notice it after a couple of weeks? Do you think I should have Washington State do the test even tho I have not observed any of the common side affects? I hope your dog was able to recover from the drug sensitivity and that the demodex is under controll. Thanks so much for the heads up. I have been worring myself to death over this dog and I am checking his pupils, body movements, drooling and energy levels every couple of hours. Im head over heels in love with Pax and I dont want to put him in danger, I just want these dam mites gone! Thanks so much and any advice or instructions on how to help Pax get through this are greatly appreciated.

When we had Angus on Ivermectin, we started with a lower dose and increased the dose weekly. By the second week, we had started to notice that he was slightly less energetic, refused a meal or two (this can be normal for him), but ultimately all of that could be chalked up to a typical reaction to Ivermectin. By the third week, Angus was refusing all meals, pupils were dilated, very lethargic, drooling constantly (not typical drool either, VERY thick and gooey drool) etc...

We had started at .6 ml and by the time Angus was showing the severe symptoms we were at about 1.2 ml.

If Pax is doing well on Ivermectin, then I wouldn't worry about it. I think that if Pax was going to have a negative reaction, it would have happened already and it sounds like Pax is doing just fine!

Angus is doing great now, we found a combination of things that seems to be working very well (after 1.5 years of battling with demodex).

 

[Colorado1234]

Im so happy to hear that Angus is doing well and that his demodex is under control. It sounds like he is a trooper. Are there any pics of him on the forum?

 

[QY10]

He has a thread in the photography section called, "Angus in Action". He's not a Boerboel though..he is just a mixed breed boy who may or may not have some mastiff-type breed in him.

 

[Colorado1234]

What a handsome boy!