Vaccines and Brain Damage

[broccolini]

There is a way to build natural immunity for many of the things our dogs are vaccinated against.

Sure. I don't doubt that at all. I had chicken pox as a child. Now I have natural immunity. Some kids got horrible scarring or a secondary infection and died. Too bad for them. Now we have a vaccine for a disease that most of us just viewed as an inconvenience. Did you know that there were about 105 deaths per year from chicken pox before the vaccine? Natural immunity wasn't going to work for those people.

People who had polio and lived also have natural immunity. Great. Lots of them also have lifelong disabilities. Some of them died. Not so great. Polio vaccine=awesome.

The risk of vaccines does not outweigh the benefits. Natural immunity is great for those who live through the exposure.

Also, I still think you and Mateo are awesome even though I don't agree with you.

Also, also, I'm glad your convictions don't come from the internet. It's full of lies.

 

[NYDDB]

Hey, thanks; agreeing to disagree is a good sign of a humane culture.

Honestly, I don't believe things are black in white, in terms of medical science especially. There is, and always will be, facts and empirical evidence to support both sides of an issue. And, of course, one has to look into how certain studies were actually implemented, research the funding behind them, yada yada... and spend gobs of time "researching the research..."

Personally, I lean into the direction of no/limited vaccine protocol (i.e. what is the very least I can get away with by law and for my dog's best interest in terms of overall and long-term health.)

And, for me, it's what gives me peace of mind...unless and until, I discover something that will pull me back into the other direction.

 

[broccolini]

Personally, I lean into the direction of no/limited vaccine protocol.

And I think you can get away with that because Mateo is a healthy, adult dog and you are probably careful about what you expose him to. I have no doubt that the vaccine protocols were developed with the least common denominator in mind. Delayed, spaced-out vaccines would probably work just as well if everyone could keep their puppies/kids away from sick dogs/kids.

We don't live in that world. Some people don't have the means or foresight to do that. Some kids/pets can't get vaccinated. Sometimes the vaccines aren't effective in some people. So the protocols we do have are just as much about keeping those people and pets safe.

Encouraging people to not do any vaccines is dangerous. Natural immunity didn't work out all that well in the pre-vaccine era. I'm talking mostly of people vaccines. I don't really know what life was like for pets before we started vaccinating them. All I have to go on for that is Cujo. So.

Oh, and I do actually think pets are vaccinated too often. I don't vaccinate any of mine every year and I encourage people to have titers done. I still think they should all have their initial vaccinations. The anti-vaccine movement scares me.

It's like we are losing our antibiotics and encouraging the return of diseases at the same time. Seems like a bad idea.

 

[broccolini]

I like the answer to this first question. I'm in the number 3 camp.

The number 4 people still worry me.

 

[Iymala]

Encouraging people to not do any vaccines is dangerous. Natural immunity didn't work out all that well in the pre-vaccine era. I'm talking mostly of people vaccines. I don't really know what life was like for pets before we started vaccinating them. All I have to go on for that is Cujo. So.

Oh, and I do actually think pets are vaccinated too often. I don't vaccinate any of mine every year and I encourage people to have titers done. I still think they should all have their initial vaccinations. The anti-vaccine movement scares me.

That is exactly how I feel. I am a huge proponent of limited vaccination and titers, but I absolutely cannot support the No vaccine movement. The potential risk for my dog to become sick, possibly infect other dogs, and even die is weighted more heavily to me than the possible risk of an adverse reaction to a vaccine.

Dr. Jean Dodds is one of my personal favorite source of information. I used her recommendations when doing limited vaccinations.

 

[DennasMom]

I have to get all the routine vaccinations - due to the local law, and where we board Denna when we go places where she can't come along.

I will be asking about titers before our next round, though. When I asked last time, my vet said that after the first 3yr booster, she'd do a titer, but that it was more expensive than just getting the shot.

My vet seems to think offering the cheapest alternative is what people want to hear, so I'm always doing my own research to find the "best" alternative... 'cause I have to ask, or they won't offer.

 

[ruthcatrin]

I have to get all the routine vaccinations - due to the local law, and where we board Denna when we go places where she can't come along.

I will be asking about titers before our next round, though. When I asked last time, my vet said that after the first 3yr booster, she'd do a titer, but that it was more expensive than just getting the shot.

My vet seems to think offering the cheapest alternative is what people want to hear, so I'm always doing my own research to find the "best" alternative... 'cause I have to ask, or they won't offer.

It is more expensive, but depending on where you live it shouldn't be outrageous either.

 

[ruthcatrin]

That is exactly how I feel. I am a huge proponent of limited vaccination and titers, but I absolutely cannot support the No vaccine movement. The potential risk for my dog to become sick, possibly infect other dogs, and even die is weighted more heavily to me than the possible risk of an adverse reaction to a vaccine.

Dr. Jean Dodds is one of my personal favorite source of information. I used her recommendations when doing limited vaccinations.

Thats where I am too. And I totally advocate spreading out what vaccines you DO give so as to not overload the pup's system. But I'm just not comfortable with a zero vax at all system. Things like rabies there is no real herd immunity, and if the dog is exposed and not vaccinated he dies. I do wish we could titer for rabies though, instead of automatically having to re-vaccinate!

 

[Bear44]

There is definitely a difference between Vaccinating and over vaccinating. I still have no idea what the hell a booster vaccine is and why the hell it is needed beside the obvious of the Vet making money.

If you are dumb enough not to get your kids vaccinated you are not only putting them at risk you are putting all of us at risk.

 

[NYDDB]

Thats where I am too. And I totally advocate spreading out what vaccines you DO give so as to not overload the pup's system. But I'm just not comfortable with a zero vax at all system. Things like rabies there is no real herd immunity, and if the dog is exposed and not vaccinated he dies. I do wish we could titer for rabies though, instead of automatically having to re-vaccinate!

Agreed. The "no vaccine" option is, well, not really an option for 99% of us, myself included. But I have seen it done, by someone who has been doing this for many generations of dogs, and it works beautifully for her and her pack. Schooled for years with homeopathy, as well as non-homeopathic but herbal and natural medicine, she definitely knows what she is doing and how to deal with any potential issues that may come up. She even treated her breeding female with pyometra naturally, and she was able to make a full recovery. Her dogs are simply, through many generations of raw feeding, natural rearing and no vaccines incredibly resistant to these diseases that most vets are vaccinating against. Their immune systems are rock solid.

But. This is the real world, I get that. I still gave Mateo his puppy shots. And I don't have the first-hand knowledge to forego all vaccines; how to do it successfully. But, for me, no more boosters; just rabies, as is required by law.

 

[angelbears]

I hope that there are people out there that will continually push the scientific community. Many beliefs that we had 50 years ago have been debunked. We no longer routinely remove the tonsils or appendix of children. My mom was questioned by her peers for not having mine removed, she had the last laugh, so to say. The same is true for antibiotics. For years it has been known that we were over using them and that they would lose their efficacy. Yet, they are still prescribed like candy. Why?

No, I don't believe in conspiracy theories. I do believe that greed is the root of most evil.

The internet is full of accurate, useful information but just like any other source of information it is up to you to do your due diligence to make sure it is a reputable source.