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One thing to note if your going to use a prong. Please make sure you understand the correct time to correct the dog. If you correct the dog at the wrong time you could make the fear of people even worse. The dog has to understand the correction is based on the behavior they are providing and NOT the approach of the person. If your going to use a prong make sure you create the association of the prong well before strangers even enter the picture. Lastly, please understand in some cases the prong can do more damage than good if the dog thinks the person is the one creating the discomfort. For example, lets say someone surprises you by stepping out from an unexpected place and is much closer to your dog than you want and the dog reacts, if you give a hard correction on the prong the dog could think the new person is causing that pain and react even stronger, especially if the dog is fearful. This is one of the reasons I don't like using a prong when aggression is involved. Be it fear or straight out aggression. Not only can you correct at the wrong time you can also build on the negative association your dog already has of people. Just learn how to fit it properly and when to use if your going this route.
and to piggy back that....most dogs that are labeled as "aggressive" aren't even close to being aggressive. They are usually anxious and fearful. And I know you are trying to err on the side of caution....but I will say this....poor owners that don't have a clue will do more damage to a dog than a prong will ever do.
Thanks for all the information regarding prong collars. I had looked into it earlier, but didn't feel like I was ready to use it on him (mostly because I'm afraid of using it incorrectly and making things worse, for the reasons karennj mentioned above). I'll ask our trainer for her opinion on it during our next session. If we don't see any improvements in the coming weeks, I might just buy one--and who knows, it could be one of those things I had wish I'd done sooner. I'll keep you all updated!
I'm assuming your trainer will say they are mean and cruel and not to use one. Or they will scare you like some do by saying you might make the situation worse. I just gave you a video and can give you more on how to use one properly...it's not hard....it doesn't hurt the dog....it's safer than a regular collar or even choke collar. I've never seen a dog become more aggressive or fearful from using one...but I have seen them become more balanced.
If you are that anxious and fearful (not just about the prong, forget the prong) it's no wonder your dog is anxious and fearful too. It's not aggressive. I'd bet my life savings on it.
I'm assuming your trainer will say they are mean and cruel and not to use one. Or they will scare you like some do by saying you might make the situation worse. I just gave you a video and can give you more on how to use one properly...it's not hard....it doesn't hurt the dog....it's safer than a regular collar or even choke collar. I've never seen a dog become more aggressive or fearful from using one...but I have seen them become more balanced.
If you are that anxious and fearful (not just about the prong, forget the prong) it's no wonder your dog is anxious and fearful too. It's not aggressive. I'd bet my life savings on it.
I'd say you're probably right. I'm not generally stressed out, only when I'm walking him, which happens to be the worse time to let off nervous energy around him. He was actually fine with strangers when I first got him, so I wasn't as worried about taking him outside. But when he suddenly started barking and growling at people, it came as a surprise to me, hence the vicious cycle of anxiety. I definitely don't blame the dog.
As I stated earlier, he is the first dog I've rescued that came to me as an adult, and I have no idea what kind of history he has. It seems he hadn't received any kind of training from his former owner, and maybe part of his fear comes from the life he used to have or the way he was treated--I have no way of knowing. And now that the rescue honeymoon period is over, having to figure out where these issues are coming from and how to correct them is new to me. I'm just doing the best I can and being open minded to suggestions and advice.
Thank you for the videos on how to use a prong collar!
Remember, you are in control. If you are anxious he will be anxious. He is new to you so it will take some time to really trust each other. You have lots of communication that still needs to happen. Any way you can drive somewhere with less people around? Walking is a great communication tool and can really help to establish who is in control. Walking in a place that has less of his triggers (strangers) and will create more distance from his fear would be a huge benefit to rehabbing him. If he is scared, having people all over the place is not going to help. You need to change the way he thinks about people and it is going to be hard to do if he is being flooded by his trigger. Was he not a city dog before?
Remember, you are in control. If you are anxious he will be anxious. He is new to you so it will take some time to really trust each other. You have lots of communication that still needs to happen. Any way you can drive somewhere with less people around? Walking is a great communication tool and can really help to establish who is in control. Walking in a place that has less of his triggers (strangers) and will create more distance from his fear would be a huge benefit to rehabbing him. If he is scared, having people all over the place is not going to help. You need to change the way he thinks about people and it is going to be hard to do if he is being flooded by his trigger. Was he not a city dog before?
Thank you, Karen! I really like that idea of driving somewhere where there are less people. I might try that this weekend. Hopefully it's not as hot as it's been so we can walk around a little longer.
I'm not sure what kind of home he had before, but the shelter he came from is 30+ miles away in the valley (Los Angeles) where there's a lot of low-density sprawl and even some semi-rural parts. So if his former home was somewhere close to that shelter in the valley, it is nothing like the busy downtown in which we currently live. A lot of the homes out there have large yards too, so maybe he was just in a yard and not taken out for walks.
If your dealing with fear you need to change the way the dog thinks. Change the emotion the dog has when it sees strangers. This is the approach I would try...
I would try to create a bit more distance then these folks but I would use this as a guide.
[video=youtube;a4kHsaUSylQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4kHsaUSylQ[/video]
One thing you need to do now is read the dog's body language. What does the dog do immediately before the bark/lunge. You need to learn to read those signals so you can keep him from going past that point. If he is growling/lunging you missed the signals and he is already over threshold. When I don't like a behavior I try to play beat the clock and ask for something different. If I can consistently get the behavior I want in certain situations I find the behavior I don't want disappears. Think competing behaviors. A dog cannot watch you or do a touch/sit/down, etc and focus on the stranger at the same time.
You have to be right in your own mind and the energy you are projecting to the animal you are handling. Dogs are extremely perceptive to your emotions and your "vibe".
If you are projecting fear and anxiety he will pick that up and react to it. If you are projecting calm and control, it will help to put your dog more at ease. If you are beaten by the situation before you get into it you aren't going to be able to help your dog get out of it.
A different type of collar isn't going to help that.
Thank you, Karen and Boxergirl for the videos! Hopefully I can find somewhere with a lot of space and not so many people to try some of these techniques. Very much appreciated!
As a side note, I was finally able to catch my neighbor to check and see how he's doing, and he said the bite was very minor. It seems like it was just the initial shock of getting snapped at by such a big dog. I'm definitely learning a lot from this and doing what it takes to make sure it won't happen again!
well... i live in a rural peaceful area (theoretically) but with this justice system I could as well live in a ghetto - doesn't really matter.
The scumbag that broke into our house and attacked us just got away with a suspended conviction today. And kisses in the meaningful parts.
My mastiffs will be put down in they bite anyone: that's the law. They won't get a "suspended sentence". I am not allowed a gun for protection. Police reached my house in 20 minutes. All I seem to be allowed to do is be a victim and then ask for counselling and write pathetic statements - it surely helps... If you try to save your ass you become outlaw. And there isn't anyone else to save it, anyway.
Rant over.
And yes, I have muzzles and crates in the house to protect my pups from protecting me. Not really necessary with the girls yet, even if Luna will be a damn good dog!
Wow! That sounds like a terrible situation. Perhaps time to take up errr archery or learn to use throwing knives? I jest... sort of. But seriously one should be allowed to defend themselves.
nah, i just wanna forget this nightmare... And no, you're not allowed to defend yourself - but you can make exquisite plans of escape just in case: alarms, video surveillance, multiple phones, multiple car keys and stuff. And obviously in case of another break in i should tell the offenders "just wait, because I need to load 3 mastiffs big lazy butts in the car first, before we can run!"
So just as Hector warned, the largest Baskerville muzzle (16" circumference) turned out to be too snug. His floppy jowls and dewlaps end up getting smushed. Does anyone have a recommendation for a sturdy muzzle with a circumference of 18"-19"? Thank you!
Buy a leather one from here. You have to do the measurements. It will show you how further down on the page. If it doesn't show you on that one muzzle you want, just click on another muzzle to find the instructions. You can even youtube a video on how to measure for this website. Don't buy the caged one. I have one and my measurements must have sucked because it's useless. The cage pushes up underneath his eyes if he pushes the muzzle into anything and I got one without the skull strap which I thought I did when I ordered, but anyhow the muzzle bangs into anything stationary and it comes off. Maybe it is such a poor piece of equipment due to my stupidity with the measurements, but I really do not recommend a caged/wire one.
