1 year old Presa Canario rescue is showing aggression to random dogs

[breniff34]

A 1-year-old female Presa Canario was tied up and abandoned across the street from my house about three weeks ago. We are in SPCA obedience classes and she stays in a crate when no one is home, because I also have an Italian Greyhound and my roommate has a Shih Tzu.

The first week she was here, she was a little unruly, but she mellowed out pretty quickly when she had a schedule and after she was spayed. After that first week, I found out that a neighbor had owned her and had just left her in the yard and never trained her. Then that neighbor gave her to a homeless man (!?!?).

Fast forward to now, and we have been going on walks and to the dog park. On a leash, she gets really excited when she sees other dogs. At first, she acted scared, but now she gets excited and pulls towards them. She also lunges towards cats that she sees. Our obedience school instructor said that she thinks they are prey and that unfortunately, it's a natural reaction. At the dog park, she has been fine up until this week, she showed aggression towards a Pomeranian and a pit bull puppy. With the Pom, I wasn't sure if it was aggression.

With the pit puppy, I was POSITIVE it was aggression. I have never seen a dog behave that way before and it was scary and threatening. She basically stood over the pup, growling, and if it moved she would put her teeth around his neck.

The third incident, I think WAS NOT her fault. There was a man sitting on a stoop with a Boston Terrier that literally flung itself off the steps on to her neck, snapping and biting. My dog responded aggressively. We walked away and told the other dog's owner we were going to the dog park and they needed to be separated. The asshole owner FOLLOWED US and cut over in front of us on the street to walk in to the dog park where my dog went after the Boston aggressively.

This behavior is so strange to me because my PC lives with two small dogs, one of which is very barky and definitely snappy when she gets too close. I DO NOT want her to behave this way. We've been working on "watch me" and "sit," but when she gets excited about another dog, that dog turns in to an OBSESSION and she won't listen to me at all. After each incident, I have immediately put her back on her leash and left the area.

I do have to say, she is getting better about not being so obsessed about where she has seen cats in the past, so there had been some improvement. I really don't want the aggression towards small animals to continue. Any suggestions are welcome!

 

[gamestaff]

go see a better trainer.

 

[breniff34]

go see a better trainer.

Some constructive advice would be better. We've only done one obedience class so far. I don't think the trainer is the issue.

 

[rdryan]

Doesn't sound like she has a whole lot of socialization in her past. Keep at the obedience training and practice at home lots too. If it were me, I would stick to on leash walks so you have control over the situation until she settles in with you and learns some manners etc.... We have similar issues with our CC/EM mix. He is a perfect gentlemen with our little dog but on a walk, he is a lunatic when he sees other dogs. Just before he starts to react badly, I turn around and head in the opposite direction. Over time I have found that we can get closer and closer before he hits his strike zone.

 

[breniff34]

Doesn't sound like she has a whole lot of socialization in her past. Keep at the obedience training and practice at home lots too. If it were me, I would stick to on leash walks so you have control over the situation until she settles in with you and learns some manners etc.... We have similar issues with our CC/EM mix. He is a perfect gentlemen with our little dog but on a walk, he is a lunatic when he sees other dogs. Just before he starts to react badly, I turn around and head in the opposite direction. Over time I have found that we can get closer and closer before he hits his strike zone.

Thanks! It sounds like we are doing what we need to be doing.

 

[musicdeb]

I would recommend no dog parks until the pup's behavior is corrected. The pup is in the teenage years at 1 yr old which lasts 2-6 months. This stage is their, "I will do what I want and when I want" stage.

This stage requires consistency in training, LOTS of patience and no frustration. The pup will feel your frustration and shut down on you and stop listening.

Exercise the pup with long walks and/or running. Do not let other people or pups come in contact with the dog until you learn his body language, i.e. when he's going to lunge.

Using positive reinforcement when training the pup. Reward when the pup does what you want them to do. No yelling or hitting the pup, this will cause them to shut down on you.

The pup needs socialization. Go to parks and sit and let the pup watch people go by. Watch his body language and learn his body language.

Always have the pup on a leash. I would recommend buying a vest or leash flag that says, "In training" or "Do not approach."

Dog Flags

Finally, it takes a rehomed pup 8-12 months to totally trust you. Titan started to really trust me after about 12 months. He was a lunger and didn't walk well on leash. Now he walks very well on leash and I know his body language before he lunges and take the appropriate measures to remove him from the lunge situation.

Titan was not socialized nor trained when I rescued him. It was a long, long road to where he is now. But it happened! Hang in there, it can happen!

Keep us posted on the pup's progress.

 

[gamestaff]

Some constructive advice would be better. We've only done one obedience class so far. I don't think the trainer is the issue.

didn't mean to be short. this is am issue that can very easily be fixed but only if you have the knowledge and skill to do it in an effective manner. a good trainer will show you the skills you need to fix this problem very very quickly. the honest truth is that most dog trainers aren't good dog trainers. same as any other field. a good dog trainer (like any other profession) will give you the skills to see very quick results. what will take time is how quickly you catch on to the skills needed to be consistent with the dog. you can save yourself a lot of time and stress by going to the right place in the beginning.

 

[CeeCee]

I agree with MusicDeb. It sounds like you pup needs more socialization, but also need to learn what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior - especially in the presence of rude or out of control dogs. The key is going to be exposure, consistency, keeping everyone safe, and keeping your pup under her threshold.

Deb hit it on the head, you are still learning your pup and she is still learning you.

It's a long road, but it can be done. (I've been on this road for about a year and half, but it is getting markedly better!) You may also want to consider teaching your pup to wear a muzzle and muzzling her while she is growing her skills. With a muzzle everyone is safe and any tension or concern you have is going to be significantly lower.

If you do decide to use a muzzle, remember that your dog can no longer protect herself and now you have to step up that much more to not put her in a situation where she feels she has to and if she ever does feel threatened, you need to communicate to her that you are protecting her.

I use a muzzle with my boy and I accomplish this last part by creating more space between us and whatever concerns him and by making sure that I put myself between him and whatever concerns him.

Keep us updated.

 

[fila4me]

agree with above about continuing socialization and training. also keep leashed.

have you done a ton of research on the Presa? if not, please do. Presa's have been known to have issues with dominant dogs, no matter size. I have met quite a few over the years that did not like any dogs outside of their pack.

the key is to socialize, socialize, socialize and stay consistent. also, socializing does not mean other dogs have to be able to come up to your dog, nor do people. good luck and remember to breath

 

[breniff34]

An update on my 1-year old Presa Canario.

Walking has become easier. When I can tell she is getting excited, I tell her to sit and wait and she usually does. Sometimes certain dogs get her really excited and she hops around a bit, but it's way better than it used to be.

My bigger problem now is that she just showed aggression towards me and my roommate. I bought her a bone and she was chewing it on the couch and my roommate went to push her off the couch and she growled, snapped and lunged at both of us. I put her in her crate, with the bone and sat with her for a little bit, but every time I came near the crate, she would growl and snap at me. Not sure what to do about aggression like this, where one of us could get bit.

 

[Hector]

An update on my 1-year old Presa Canario.

Walking has become easier. When I can tell she is getting excited, I tell her to sit and wait and she usually does. Sometimes certain dogs get her really excited and she hops around a bit, but it's way better than it used to be.

My bigger problem now is that she just showed aggression towards me and my roommate. I bought her a bone and she was chewing it on the couch and my roommate went to push her off the couch and she growled, snapped and lunged at both of us. I put her in her crate, with the bone and sat with her for a little bit, but every time I came near the crate, she would growl and snap at me. Not sure what to do about aggression like this, where one of us could get bit.

Glad things are getting better. She is exhibiting resource guarding. It's pretty easy to train the dog out of. I be right back and get you some links.

 

[Hector]

Hand feed her meals or do this

[video=youtube;xjpP5EZC7HI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjpP5EZC7HI[/video]

Practice dropping treats as you walk by her food bowl when she's eating. That way she can have a positive association with humans walking by. I don't suggest removing food items or bowls once you have already given it to the dog. This will usually come into place without practice after you have practiced lots of leave it exercises.

Here's a detailed article on food guarding

http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/food-guarding

Train a leave it if she doesn't know already

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQdg0qOVik0

and then practice A LOT with distractions, distance, duration, etc

[video=youtube;ztRNfyErf8s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztRNfyErf8s[/video]

A diagram showing how our actions influence the dog's behavior

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lilita/8676756887/in/photostream/lightbox/

 

[Hector]

I would like to add that you don't leave any high value food or toys laying around. Also if you need to take something away from your dog, lead her away from the item and then remove it while she is distracted and don't attempt to just take it from her. That way she is voluntarily giving it up and not you "stealing" her stuff.

Also don't let her be on the couch when she has high value items.

 

[musicdeb]

Yes, the pup is resource guarding. It was not easy for me to break Titan of that behavior. It took 4-5 months for Titan to stop resource guarding. Hector gave you some great suggestions and videos.

 

[breniff34]

So the shit hit the proverbial fan. My dog literally ran THROUGH a fence and attacked a very small Pomeranian walking down the street and then came home and attacked my Italian Greyhound. Now she is being randomly aggressive to him, unprovoked. She bit him in the head, clean through to the skull and in the leg. I don't want to take her to a shelter, because the shelters in Louisiana are either full or high-kill. I don't REALLY want to re-home her, because I LOVE her but I cannot have her hurting my other dog, or other small dogs. I've been told to do one thing by one trainer, and the exact opposite by another trainer. I thought I was doing everything right and now this aggression towards my Italian Greyhound materializes. I can explain away the Pomeranian as prey, but she went after my IG tonight while I was sitting between them on the couch. She has never done anything aggressive towards my roommates dog, a small Shih Tzu. I've been keeping her muzzled around the house, separate them when they eat and give each of them quality time alone in my room. I've also begun the process of re-homing her and the only possibility so far is sending her foster in Washington. Also, my heart really isn't set on getting rid of her.

On top of that, WHY is she eating the blanket she sleeps on???

 

[breniff34]

One more thing: My IG and the Shih Tzu are now TERRIFIED of her and they have both begun trying to attack her. The Shih Tzu barks like crazy and runs after her, snapping at her and my IG will try to attack her if she comes near me or acts excitable about anything. I came down with the flu this weekend, so I haven't been able to do ANYTHING about it, including reinforcing positive behaviors.

 

[musicdeb]

What rescue in WA? It isn't Rising Phoenix Mastiff rescue?

Sounds like she needs some aggressive training. I'm sorry that this happening to you and your pack. Are the other dogs ok?

 

[breniff34]

I share a vet with the woman who owns the Pomeranian, and the vet said he was fine. The poor little guy. My IG has some puncture wounds that are healing up. She is not getting any better with him and is getting worse. She is muzzled, but she keeps moving towards him like she's going to aggressively pounce on him. Like I said, he's terrified and miserable, and she's miserable because she's muzzled or crated. I THINK she is resource protecting ME because she knows that he gets my attention too. I LOVE her and want to keep her, but I think for everyone's happiness and safety, she needs to live in a home without any other animals in it.

 

[musicdeb]

Are you talking to Rising Phoenix Mastiff Rescue in WA to take the dog to?

 

[hulksm4sh]

Hello and BPPPPPPPPP!

Please make sure it isn't Rising Phoenix in Washington. I live in Northwest, and can say it is well known that they are very BAD news.

First off, this is my first post. You also have absolutely no reason to listen to anything I say. I am not a licensed trainer, vet, opinion giver, etc... I will relate some info I have from experience I have gathered from having had a Cane Corso I ended up having to put down at 10 months, working with 2 Cane Corsos for last year in training environments, and as a current owner of a 1 year Presa Canario pup I've had for only a few months. It is impossible to give perfect analysis, as none of us were around when your incidents happened. There are so many things that look one way to us, and another to a dog. There are also things that look one way to a dog, and another to a Cane Corso, Dogo Argentino, Presa Canario and others of similar purpose. The rules are different for owners of these dogs. Everything is different for these dogs in our human world. FeeFee barks and bites, it is annoying and excusable by the masses. Our dog growls at anything, and the cops are called. Displays of dominance are annoying when the dog is 45lbs. These same displays are scary as hell when the dog's head is as big as yours, and he/she can jump (or in your case run through) a fence.

This is impossible to keep short, I will try.

You rescued a dog with issues, and got lucky in the beginning. Now you are going to be in the meat and potatoes of the process. It takes a very long time to establish a new dog. Sometimes it looks like it was a fast process, but it is still a working process for a long long time (think year +/-). You already have a pack, and you introduced a new member. You then starting doing everything you could to do it all right. Unfortunately, it is all still new and no where near set. Things went well in your home at first, and even outside it to a degree. However, this is a ton for any dog in that amount of time. It will be argued, but the dog park was not a great idea. You are new, the rules are new, the expectations are new, socializing in itself was new (as it was just locked in a yard). You have no idea where it came from (parents/temperament/nutrition/development mentally). Your dogs are still new, and not recognized as its pack. Roles are not set yet. Hierarchy isn't established at all (not enough time). This is a ton to expect from a dog.

You have a Presa. You can easily replace Presa with Cane Corso or Dogo Argentino. There are others. You do not have a common mastiff. These pups are energy for days, freakishly strong and fast, medium/large height, with uncommon physical abilities for that size. That said, a Presa with common dog problems (rescue, socialization, fear, etc...) is a huge handful. There are exceptions to every rule, and of course dog. For the most part, you have a very strong willed dog. They are sensitive. They need to be lead. They need to understand their role, and you need to understand theirs. You have to integrate the pup into your pack, and understand that there are going to be phases. Not only is it going to challenge its place everyday, it is a teenager with a crap start. The pup has had a few recent run-ins with other dogs, especially little ones. This is going to be a task for you and your current pack members. Normally raised and tempered dogs squabble. It can get very rough/intense. This behavior with a size difference can be really intense. It is much different than 2 equally sized gomers going at it to see who headbutts harder (my brothers). You don't have normal anything right now, so it is going to be extremely volatile if/when it happens. Remember, everyone/thing/dog is new. There is no trust, and she doesn't feel love or that you "rescued" her. You have a large, scary, aggressive looking freak of nature with a bad start, that has no idea how to behave or control itself. You also have nothing concrete to go off. Everything is amplified. They are wonderful animals, but it is reality. This may not be the best place for her, but that doesn't mean it can't work. You are 1 hour late waking up to go to a job you are on your last strike with, and have 5 minutes to get there on time . Know what you are facing, and be very realistic about it.

If you plan to keep the dog, then you get to start over. You get to establish a control first. That way you can observe more. You start with you and yours, and keep it that way for a while. The great news is that you know you have a dog who will bite something. Now it isn't "it could" or "I'll be careful". You are alert and looking for signs before it happens. You hopefully have a great trainer or resource for info, so you can start integrating her into the pack. You are the leader, the dogs will have to reconfigure who is next. At the same time, she is going to have to learn what is or isn't acceptable with the other dogs. This could take very very very very long. This may never work. You are going to get challenged. Get some easy consistency going without the stress. Feed her in her crate, or other comfort place. Do not feed her with the other dogs. If she will let you put it in there with her in it, don't let her dive in right as she sees the bowl. Make her wait a sec "ah ah! or something to stop her". If you can't put the food in there with her, hand feed her. Honestly, I'd hand feed her for at least a month. You are where the food comes from. You control the food. You as the pack leader is permitting her to eat. When she knows the food is coming from you consistently, you aren't a threat. You are creating behavior that isn't command control. It is self taught to a degree, and isn't dependent on obeying anything or stress. Don't kneel down to do so. Just put the food in your hand, and little by little let her take it out to eat it.

As you are able to have the pups together, try to control it more. Avoid putting all three together and seeing what happens. Even if they get along, squabbling happens. Keep her on a leash even in the house. That way you can intervene and control easier, especially around other dog/dogs. Watch posture, muscle tense, etc... The leash also teaches to be by you. Everything comes through you. You have the food, you have the toys, you have the approval, you are the leader, this is normal, this is safe, this is awesome. If you are going to socialize beyond that, hang out in your front yard. Another poster suggested being in the vicinity of people and animals, but not directly in the mix. That is a great idea. I wish I had learned that sooner than I did. I would just hold off on doing too much out in the public, until you have a constant. Walk around the outside of a parking lot, or some place that isn't placing her directly in the thick. Once again, you are trying to create behavior without a command. Things they teach them self, they do much more consistently. Then you can slowly add the command.
Small example: My pup will come sit when he hears the ice cube dispenser on the fridge. We have never directly taught, told, hinted, expected anything regarding this. However, when we use the ice, a cube hits the floor damn near every time. It happened once, I picked it up, and went and tested if he likes them. He loves them. I had already (without telling him) got him to sit when I fed him by hand. So the next couple times a cube hit the floor, he would come running. As the pause grew, he would sit. Once he sat, I'd give it to him. Not a single word to him. Eventually (VERY SOON), he would come running and sit when he heard the dispenser in use. Still no command, but he will wake from a dead sleep when he hears that thing.

Know what breed you have. Know what it was bred for. Know that you don't know where it came from. They are very guardy, especially at home. Mine is a total gomer. However, he is a different dog in the car, home, yard. He will prepare for a death match when people come by. Once introductions happen, he is good to go. He will still get a bit testy if someone goes near OUR food, but is learning. I only have people "in the know" over. There is so much more, but this is very long and I will probably get shredded by people.

It may not work out for you. It may be wrong environment. The dog could be imbalanced, or neurologically unfit. It could be the wrong dog for you. It could be so many things. Be honest with yourself, and know what you have. I'm still working through things with mine, and he had a great start. He does great with my Aussie. They still have their tiffs. I still have rules for both, and way more now that we have him. He does great at parks and dogs. I don't go though. I can't trust others or their dogs. It only takes one dog to create an incident. We are at a point where we go to training, and parks (to walk). I don't let many people pet him. He is nice, but it is principal. I wouldn't let anyone pet my kids, so I won't let them pet my dog. I wouldn't expect my kid to be ok with someone petting (hugging patting etc...), so I don't expect my dog to. I do however, expect my kid to know how to behave in public and know who/what to queue off of. No they aren't kids, but they are our pack. They need to know how to behave, and react in situations. They need to be tolerant. I need to know what they are realistically capable of. Every dog is different. You have a rough road ahead.