Hello and BPPPPPPPPP!
I'm going to see if I can address everything you said in your message. A lot of great advice! Things have been quiet around here lately up until last night. My Presa tried to attack my other dog after he fell off the couch and squeaked. Up until then, we've been working on walking on a leash and not reacting to other animals and setting boundaries in the house. I have spoken to three different trainers and every single one has given me different advice. Act like alpha, don't act like alpha. Act like a wolf pack, don't act like a wolf pack. Aughh! So at this point, I am taking what works for us from ALL schools of thought.
Please make sure it isn't Rising Phoenix in Washington. I live in Northwest, and can say it is well known that they are very BAD news.
Not sure if it's an organized rescue. I was just given the contact information for a woman named Melissa. I called her, she never called me back. And so it goes during this whole process.
First off, this is my first post. You also have absolutely no reason to listen to anything I say. I am not a licensed trainer, vet, opinion giver, etc... I will relate some info I have from experience I have gathered from having had a Cane Corso I ended up having to put down at 10 months, working with 2 Cane Corsos for last year in training environments, and as a current owner of a 1 year Presa Canario pup I've had for only a few months. It is impossible to give perfect analysis, as none of us were around when your incidents happened. There are so many things that look one way to us, and another to a dog. There are also things that look one way to a dog, and another to a Cane Corso, Dogo Argentino, Presa Canario and others of similar purpose. The rules are different for owners of these dogs. Everything is different for these dogs in our human world. FeeFee barks and bites, it is annoying and excusable by the m$#@!. Our dog growls at anything, and the cops are called. Displays of dominance are annoying when the dog is 45lbs. These same displays are scary as hell when the dog's head is as big as yours, and he/she can jump (or in your case run through) a fence.
Yep. Her ears were clipped and she looks intimidating. I nicknamed her "The Tank."
This is impossible to keep short, I will try.
You rescued a dog with issues, and got lucky in the beginning. Now you are going to be in the meat and potatoes of the process. It takes a very long time to establish a new dog. Sometimes it looks like it was a fast process, but it is still a working process for a long long time (think year +/-). You already have a pack, and you introduced a new member. You then starting doing everything you could to do it all right. Unfortunately, it is all still new and no where near set. Things went well in your home at first, and even outside it to a degree. However, this is a ton for any dog in that amount of time. It will be argued, but the dog park was not a great idea. You are new, the rules are new, the expectations are new, socializing in itself was new (as it was just locked in a yard). You have no idea where it came from (parents/temperament/nutrition/development mentally). Your dogs are still new, and not recognized as its pack. Roles are not set yet. Hierarchy isn't established at all (not enough time). This is a ton to expect from a dog.
Totally right. I have learned the dog park is not the place for her. I started going because the previous owner said she took her all the time and had no problems. We won't be going back. I'm also giving her a year. If I don't see progress, I'll be looking for another home for her. But she needs to be walked, otherwise I pay the price of having an unruly 70 pound dog in the house stressing out the other two dogs. So we walk around the neighborhood which can be GREAT or awful, depending on how she acts. SPCA trainer taught me to "correct" with "leave it" and one tug on the leash. We have gotten to the point where she listens MOST of the time when we walk by cats and bigger dogs. I live in a not-so-great area and there can be stray dogs roaming around and people let their pitbulls out of their houses with no leashes on. We've been walking down the street and have had pitbulls just charge out of nowhere up to us. She has handled herself well in these situations. If we see small dogs or are surprised by a dog walking around a corner, or if there are multiple dogs barking from yards, sometimes she loses it and jumps, whines and barks. It can be hard to hold on to her. She is damn strong. So another trainer told me that, of course, getting angry won't work for this breed and to positively reinforce her when she turns to me when I try to distract her. I've been doing this with treats on our walks. If I can tell one of her "triggers" is going to set her off, I put a treat in my hand and tell her to "touch my hand" always in a positive tone. Sometimes we will do that and jog by the trigger as well, until she's calmed down and continues walking. We walk two or three times a day. I work part time, so three more often than two. One long walk in the morning, one short walk mid-day and another walk in the evening. She plays with her toys when we get home, and then usually naps for four-ish hours in between walks and play time. I plan on reinforcing the fence around my yard and getting a long leash line so we can play catch in the yard.
You have a Presa. You can easily replace Presa with Cane Corso or Dogo Argentino. There are others. You do not have a common mastiff. These pups are energy for days, freakishly strong and fast, medium/large height, with uncommon physical abilities for that size. That said, a Presa with common dog problems (rescue, socialization, fear, etc...) is a huge handful. There are exceptions to every rule, and of course dog. For the most part, you have a very strong willed dog. They are sensitive. They need to be lead. They need to understand their role, and you need to understand theirs. You have to integrate the pup into your pack, and understand that there are going to be phases. Not only is it going to challenge its place everyday, it is a teenager with a crap start. The pup has had a few recent run-ins with other dogs, especially little ones. This is going to be a task for you and your current pack members. Normally raised and tempered dogs squabble. It can get very rough/intense. This behavior with a size difference can be really intense. It is much different than 2 equally sized gomers going at it to see who headbutts harder (my brothers). You don't have normal anything right now, so it is going to be extremely volatile if/when it happens. Remember, everyone/thing/dog is new. There is no trust, and she doesn't feel love or that you "rescued" her. You have a large, scary, aggressive looking freak of nature with a bad start, that has no idea how to behave or control itself. You also have nothing concrete to go off. Everything is amplified. They are wonderful animals, but it is reality. This may not be the best place for her, but that doesn't mean it can't work. You are 1 hour late waking up to go to a job you are on your last strike with, and have 5 minutes to get there on time. Know what you are facing, and be very realistic about it.
The other two small dogs are part of the problem. After the first time she attacked my other dog, they have been stressed out. Both try to bite her when she runs excitedly through the house. My roommates dog barks and snaps at her every time she walks by. She wants to play with him, but he is too small for that, so I don't allow her to try to play with them. My technique for this has been to say "no" to the little dogs when they react to her excitement and to immediately tell my dog to "go to his spot." My roommates dog is a bit more difficult, because he was NEVER trained and she pretty much lets him do whatever he wants. This needs to change. I was going to hire a behaviorist to come to the house. I called him and he never called me back. And so it goes down here in Louisiana. Extremely difficult to get people to call you back. Le sigh.
If you plan to keep the dog, then you get to start over. You get to establish a control first. That way you can observe more. You start with you and yours, and keep it that way for a while. The great news is that you know you have a dog who will bite something. Now it isn't "it could" or "I'll be careful". You are alert and looking for signs before it happens. You hopefully have a great trainer or resource for info, so you can start integrating her into the pack. You are the leader, the dogs will have to reconfigure who is next. At the same time, she is going to have to learn what is or isn't acceptable with the other dogs. This could take very very very very long. This may never work. You are going to get challenged. Get some easy consistency going without the stress. Feed her in her crate, or other comfort place. Do not feed her with the other dogs. If she will let you put it in there with her in it, don't let her dive in right as she sees the bowl. Make her wait a sec "ah ah! or something to stop her". If you can't put the food in there with her, hand feed her. Honestly, I'd hand feed her for at least a month. You are where the food comes from. You control the food. You as the pack leader is permitting her to eat. When she knows the food is coming from you consistently, you aren't a threat. You are creating behavior that isn't command control. It is self taught to a degree, and isn't dependent on obeying anything or stress. Don't kneel down to do so. Just put the food in your hand, and little by little let her take it out to eat it.
Yep. I've become extremely attentive after the aggression started. I look for her "triggers" like I mentioned above. So far, her triggers are (1) little dogs; (2) dogs that walk by our front door when it's open cause her to show aggression to my small dog; (3) my small dog squeaking. She has NEVER shown aggression to my roommates small dog. She knows that my attentions lie with my other small dog. They are fed in separate rooms now and I make her sit and wait before I let her eat. I'll try feeding her by hand now.
As you are able to have the pups together, try to control it more. Avoid putting all three together and seeing what happens. Even if they get along, squabbling happens. Keep her on a leash even in the house. That way you can intervene and control easier, especially around other dog/dogs. Watch posture, muscle tense, etc... The leash also teaches to be by you. Everything comes through you. You have the food, you have the toys, you have the approval, you are the leader, this is normal, this is safe, this is awesome. If you are going to socialize beyond that, hang out in your front yard. Another poster suggested being in the vicinity of people and animals, but not directly in the mix. That is a great idea. I wish I had learned that sooner than I did. I would just hold off on doing too much out in the public, until you have a constant. Walk around the outside of a parking lot, or some place that isn't placing her directly in the thick. Once again, you are trying to create behavior without a command. Things they teach them self, they do much more consistently. Then you can slowly add the command.
Small example: My pup will come sit when he hears the ice cube dispenser on the fridge. We have never directly taught, told, hinted, expected anything regarding this. However, when we use the ice, a cube hits the floor damn near every time. It happened once, I picked it up, and went and tested if he likes them. He loves them. I had already (without telling him) got him to sit when I fed him by hand. So the next couple times a cube hit the floor, he would come running. As the pause grew, he would sit. Once he sat, I'd give it to him. Not a single word to him. Eventually (VERY SOON), he would come running and sit when he heard the dispenser in use. Still no command, but he will wake from a dead sleep when he hears that thing.
I've been watching for triggers. I don't leash in the house, but I only let her out of her crate unmuzzled when they can have my full, undivided attention. I don't let her around the other two dogs unsupervised, ever. If I sense tension, she gets muzzled. I don't put her in her crate as punishment because I don't want her to think of it as a bad place.
Know what breed you have. Know what it was bred for. Know that you don't know where it came from. They are very guardy, especially at home. Mine is a total gomer. However, he is a different dog in the car, home, yard. He will prepare for a death match when people come by. Once introductions happen, he is good to go. He will still get a bit testy if someone goes near OUR food, but is learning. I only have people "in the know" over. There is so much more, but this is very long and I will probably get shredded by people.
Yes, I don't know what the first six months of her life was like, but the last six months, she was tied up in a yard. I think my biggest problem is that I don't think my roommate is taking control of the situation. She tells me the dog misbehaves me I'm not there. When I told her dog "no" when it was barking at the bigger dog, my roommate snapped at me, saying it was the Presa's fault. Fault or no, her little dog CANNOT be barking aggressively at the Presa. This is something I'm trying to address with my roommate, her half-assing the training and not being attentive or giving her full, undivided attention.
It may not work out for you. It may be wrong environment. The dog could be imbalanced, or neurologically unfit. It could be the wrong dog for you. It could be so many things. Be honest with yourself, and know what you have. I'm still working through things with mine, and he had a great start. He does great with my Aussie. They still have their tiffs. I still have rules for both, and way more now that we have him. He does great at parks and dogs. I don't go though. I can't trust others or their dogs. It only takes one dog to create an incident. We are at a point where we go to training, and parks (to walk). I don't let many people pet him. He is nice, but it is principal. I wouldn't let anyone pet my kids, so I won't let them pet my dog. I wouldn't expect my kid to be ok with someone petting (hugging patting etc...), so I don't expect my dog to. I do however, expect my kid to know how to behave in public and know who/what to queue off of. No they aren't kids, but they are our pack. They need to know how to behave, and react in situations. They need to be tolerant. I need to know what they are realistically capable of. Every dog is different. You have a rough road ahead.
Yes. Like I said, one year of consistent work and if there is no progress, she will be re-homed. I have faith in her though, I do. No dog parks for her. I never realized how bad they are until I started taking her and realized that NO ONE is paying attention to what their dogs are doing. I never let children pet her. Now if I can only get that damn behaviorist to call me back!
