Boerboel with major issues.......need help, at our witts end !!!

[Gemsmom]

@Cody:

First, it is not the Humane society that provides the assistance. The link simply takes you to their website where there is a list of National, as well as state by state, organizations and foundations that provide aid to those who need it in order for said individual to provide the care their animal needs. It was something I thought might be helpful for Kmay in their situation. The different organizations provide funding for different issues i.e. training (boerboel), cancer treatments (which are incredibly costly for another of their dogs), so on and so forth. If they qualified for some sort of assistance, it would take away the issue of having to prioritize their dogs based on their conditions. I should have been more specific, or perhaps worded better, in my earlier post so that my meaning was clear. Secondly, as far as shelters go, I will assume you are right and they are not affiliated. I did not imply they were in any way affiliated. I suggested as they have a history of working with shelter/s (i.e. rescue) that perhaps they (the shelter) could point them to an appropriate and perhaps even a lower cost trainer. I am from Michigan, as you read above, and I know there are low cost trainers that donate time etc. to shelters (My friend mentioned above). It was a thought. Perhaps again not worded well enough to be clear in my meaning or justification. These are just avenues that may be of some assistance to them. That is all. I have no experience with the Humane Society or the shelters. I agree Mike Vick as a spokesperson for any animal anything is in very poor taste. The man never did, nor ever does, deserve the right to own any animal. Thirdly, I am vegan. There is a reason for that choice and PETA is part of it. I don't want to argue with anyone over PETA or anything else for that matter. I am here to meet and communicate with other mastiff owners, to gain knowledge from the sites members about a breed I have never owned prior to purchasing our bullmastiff, and to use the information of others experiences to better raise Gemma. I will try to be more clear in my future posts and I thank you for the links as they will provide for interesting reading.

@Kmay: I apologize if I was not clear in my posts to you. I just took a little while and did a few searches to see if perhaps there was something/someone out that could possibly help you and your dogs. I am truly sorry about your dane. I cannot imagine what you must be going through. Please know you will be in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[kmay]

We are just having a very hard time finding a trainer that isn't charging an arm and a leg. And the only one we did find wasn't really a trainer or behavioralist. The shelter suggested a man who was $250 an hr and the dog pound suggested the same guy. And the other one suggested to us was over 2 hrs away and the same price.
Right now, we have things covered, like i said she's kenneled during the day, and let out at 4:00 when we get home. Then she's out all night or in the bedroom with us when we go to bed.

Again, as i said, our financial situation is not of poor people, if it was i wouldn't be foolish enough to have a horse and a donkey and whatever else, and i wouldn't be able to afford the cancer treatment on the Dane.

We love our animals and do what we can for them, and not one single one of them goes without. (we had a horse that i got when i was 15 yrs old, he was 1 yr old baby, and i had him until we had to have him euthenized when he was 32 yrs old) so i do care for them the right way.

Thanks for your well wishes on the Dane, this is going to be a hard thing to do, but the decision unfortunately has to be made. The dog isn't getting any better and the vets exact words were "if you choose to do this, you will not be making the wrong decision" and by looking at the dog the past 2 days, i know SHE has already made the decision for us.

 

[Ripsmom]

holy crap...I never knew that Peta even ran a shelter and as a shelter manager myself that percentage of adoption is despicable. I can't believe how much trainers are charging in CA...that is ridiculous....seems an average rate for board cert. vet. behaviorist even around here... but i have to tell you I know a couple of trainers who are not "behaviorists" but they know their stuff and could most definitely deal with the issues this dog is having for $350 for six lessons but they are in RI. but i can't imagine that there aren't some in CA. maybe try the APDT website and look for a regular trainer instead of a behaviorist..granted not all trainers are able to deal with this situation but many of them are and it'll be a hell of a lot cheaper, a phone consult with them should give you an idea of their capability. I wonder if you will see any change in her behavior once the dane is gone. I'm sorry to hear about the dane, i too have a dane and he's an old man and failing. My last rotti had bone cancer and there wasn't a damn thing i could do for it, unfortunately they don't last too long with it.

 

[kmay]

If I may ask, how old is your Dane and what color? Ours a Fawn and white and (without cropped ears and is 9 yrs and 2 months old and we've had her since she was 4 1/2 months old. And your Rottie? How old was he when you found the cancer? Where was his bone cancer? The Dane has it in her front right leg, between the elbow and the chest area.

 

[Ripsmom]

my dane is going to be 8 in April, he is a black, I've had him since he was 12 wks old...he was a wedding gift to someone who didn't want him....originally came from a BYB who I am all too familiar with (in fact the idiot is breeding french mastiffs now), there is a picture of him in my profile. His back end is getting really bad with arthritis, he has been through the mill...diagnosed w/addisson's disease when he was two (almost died), e-coli in the lungs, pneumonia, bloat 2 yrs ago, now he's just getting old quick (it's a good thing he's a nice dog...I could have bought a brand new car with the money this dog has cost me). The rotti was only eight yrs old when he died, although most bone cancer is found in the limbs his was in his chest (started from the rib), by the time he showed any symptoms at all his chest cavity was filled with it. i took him to an oncology practice in Mass and they gave him two weeks...he lasted two weeks to the day, very sad, my husband never really got over it, that was his buddy and that was 7 yrs ago.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

I am sorry to hear about your Dane RIP big girl! It is never easy loose a friend, and bone cancer always seems to be aggressive in that the animals once diagnosed don't make it too long after. Strength to you on what will be a very rough day.

The shelter I fostered for won't even help me. They won't take her (even after all the years of fostering and " WE " paid for the food for the fosters) but they gave me the number of a trainer, he is one of the one's that cost $250 an hr. I did find one trainer that said she would come to the house and help for $25 an hr, but then I found out that she really isn't a trainer, she is a kennel assistant at a vets office that does some basic obedience training on the side. I don't think that's such a good idea.

Our local humane society (or dog pound) doesn't have trainers. We went in and talked to them and they said they could refer us to a trainer, and it was the same $250 an hr guy the shelter uses. Our vet gave us the number of 2 trainers/behavioralists, and they are both $200 and $250 an hr. The $200 an hr one wanted to charge us an extra $100 an hr to drive to us from 2 hrs away. It's rediculous.

I will see what Googling low cost comes up and then do some research on whoever I find.

And by the way, we are having to put the Dane to sleep this weekend. She is not responding to the medication at all, and the vet said with this new cancer meds, we should see a difference in a matter of 24 to 48 hrs, and along with the molitoff coctail of meds she's taking at home, we should have seen a difference in the first week, and she's no different. Actually appears to be worse. Unfortunately the vet says if we choose euthenasia, we will not be making the wrong decision as the bone cancer she has is a very aggressive form of cancer. :crytissue:

 

[kmay]

Oh boy, that's what the dr told us, it may go to her chest. That we are supposed to watch her for having a hard time breathing or coughing.
It's so hard, one minute she seems completely not the same dog, and the next minute she's up and wagging her tail and her whole back end is following and wiggling. One minute she's happy, and the next minute her eyes just look awful tired. And then she eats, then she doesn't want to eat. It's so hard. She turned 9 in December. The Rot will be 12 in April.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

Yeah with bone cancer it usually goes to soft tissue next and by the time you are seeing physical evidence it has already spread to other area. I know it is a tough decision to make but I think you just know when the time comes and your wonderful dog looks at you a certain way that you just know. They are tired and they are ready to say good-bye.

Oh boy, that's what the dr told us, it may go to her chest. That we are supposed to watch her for having a hard time breathing or coughing.
It's so hard, one minute she seems completely not the same dog, and the next minute she's up and wagging her tail and her whole back end is following and wiggling. One minute she's happy, and the next minute her eyes just look awful tired. And then she eats, then she doesn't want to eat. It's so hard. She turned 9 in December. The Rot will be 12 in April.

 

[Little Monster]

I own a dog aggressive dog. She is a very dominant, spayed female, Pit Bull. She has bitten every dog in the family (sister's dogs, parent's dogs, etc.). We know her and how she is. We have to be aware and attentive to all other dogs whenever we take her out. She does get along with our Corso, but it took over a year for them to form a bond. The benefits we had in our situation: she is the older dog and the dominant dog, she whipped our Corso into shape when he was a young pup, she is very obvious with her signals before she bites (but not at all to the untrained eye). We know her very well and we too can tell just by the way she looks at other dogs that something is going to happen. Here is somethings I wish someone told me when we were raising her. 1: Genetics is a huge part, it isn't 'all about how you raise them.' 2: While we may never be able to teach her to like other dogs, we can teach her to behave around other dogs. A dog with truely great obedience doesn't just obey when you have food or a toy, but obeys no matter what- even under extreme extraction. 3: dogs go through developmental stages just like people. Spayed or not, when they turn about 18 months, they can go through a change. For some dogs this is earlier, some later. Crumb (my Pitty) was about 28 months when she did. It's the terrible twos. This is when dogs push their limits and boundaries and try to see what they can and can't get away with. It sounds like your Boerbel is challenging your Dane. What stinks about 'bitch fights' is they are typically more serious. Not like the boys just trying to prove a point. Like everyone else, I recommend a behaviorist and or trainer. I have never been to a behaviorist, but have put my Pitty through 4 different training programs. I recommend whatever you do, don't use electricity (shock collars). They have their place, just not with aggression. Also, consider a drug change. I have known many people to have better luck with Reconcile (fluoxetine or prozac) than Clomicalm (Clomipramine). My sister had an English Bull Terrier that chases his tail and it has helped tremendously. I have known it to work with separation anxiety and aggression. But these meds require a change in routine too. You can't just count on the drug. Both my sister and I use treadmills (humanely and appropriately) to exercise our dogs. A tired dog is a happy dog. I got mine on Craigslist for $15! We have put a lot of work into our girl, and while we can't take her to the dog park, we can make her sit politely next to dominant males and females and she is great! Hope this helps.

Did your doctors say anything about Pamidronate for bone cancer therapy?

 

[kmay]

She has done really well around other dogs when we are out walking and we run into others with dogs. On the end of a leash she's the perfect little girl. Although I will never take her to a dog park that's for sure. She was 1 yr old when she challenged the Dane and yes, you are right, female to female fights are AWFUL! And the Boerboel doesn't give up. When you separate them if you barely loosen up on her collar, she goes right back at her wherever she is. They are very scary fights. For this reason we they are not allowed to be together. The Dane is so much older than her, and they used to play together. We figured out (we think) it's because the Boer is very possessive over "her" people. That's the only thing we can figure out. The fights usually were when the Dane would come near one of us, then she would go for her. And I can see it in her eyes and her look before she does it. My husband can't see it he says, but I saw it every time and told him ahead of time she was going to do it.

As for shock collars, we don't use a shock collar, as someone had actually recommended it to us one time and I read up on them. Definitely not something I would use for a dog with aggression issues. My x brother in law raises Vizslas, he said they have used shock collars before and recommended I not use one on her because it can make the aggression worse and that's what I read also.

Our vet also said he has nothing else to give us other than Clomicalm. It does and it doesn't really doesn't work. I have heard of other meds, so I was actually thinking of taking her to another vet and getting a second opinion.

As for the Pamidronate, that is what the Dane is on right now. She had her first treatment on Monday Feb. 7th. That along with 2 different medications to take at home. We take her to the dr and leave her at the vets for the Pamidronate since it's an I.V. drip.
And actually, since Friday afternoon, the Dane is doing really really well. She's eating and drinking and peeing and poopin normal!
You can hardly tell she's even limping and the look on her face is back to normal, she's happy and wagging her tail and actually ran across the front lawn Saturday afternoon. (not as fast as normal, but she did) Dr thinks she's doing very well, and was actually surprised. There are some things we have to watch her for like if she stops eating again, or starts coughing or having a hard time breathing. That means the cancer has spread and in that case, we will not let her suffer. We will have to let her go.

 

[Little Monster]

Pamidronate is an awesome drug. I have seen one dog live with a good quality of life for over 8 months after diagnosis. It may have metastasized to his chest but it never affected his breathing or caused coughing - he never had chest films done once treatment started. However, the leg with the cancer (the front leg) became so painful and fragile. They were afraid it would break under the pressure of a simple act like getting up, and lots of times they do because the bone is so degraded. They opted to amputate the leg. It may have taken away the pain of the cancer, but it introduced another type of pain. I don't recommend this option at all. It really does decrease the quality of life. Did your vet send home some pain medications to keep her comfortable? Tramadol, Gabepentin, Rimadyl? There are lots of options! These meds wont cure the cancer or even come close, but they will definitely make her feel better.

 

[kmay]

Are you a vet tech? Or a vet? You know a lot about this. Yes, the vet sent her home with just that, she's on Tramadol and Steroids. The Rimadyl and something Duramax didn't do much for the pain at first. (that's what they gave her when they originally thought it was arthritis)

She said we should see an improvement on the Pamidronate within 2 or 3 days, when we didn't see an improvement, we thought it wasn't goign to work. We had every intention of letting her go last Saturday, but then on Friday afternoon, she was so much better and she's seems better every day since. Dr. said it may be that it took longer to work on her size dog, I don't know, all I know is it's working!

As for removing the leg, they said they can't because of her size and age, but that's ok. Right now, we are concentrating on controlling the pain and it's doing very well.

My son in law was telling us that his mother had a dog years ago that had bone cancer also, they didn't do anything about when they first saw her limping, by the time they got her to the vet (no clue how long it was, but she waited until the dog couldn't get up one day and her leg was useless and seh was crying in pain) they took x-rays and said it looked like she had been hit by a car because of the way the bone looked. The vet politely (but stearnly) told her that the dog had bone cancer and that they had let it go on to long and the bone was completely deteriorated.
His mother is definitely not the brightest or the most compassionate person when it comes to her animals. Good thing i didn't know her back then. I would have been FURIOUS with her.

 

[Little Monster]

Yeah, I am a vet tech, and unfortunately deal with a lot of bone cancer. The clinic I work for works closely with a Greyhound rescue and they have a lot of problems with bone cancer. We are currently treating 3 dogs and just lost one a few days ago. We have one dog on Pamidronate and she is doing well. She still wont use her back leg, but otherwise has a great quality of life. We recently started using Gabepentin and have seen a lot of success with it. Our new cocktail is Tramadol, Rimadyl (or Deramaxx) and Gabepentin. The Gabepentin works to slow down or dull the signal of pain to the central nervous system - it's actually a very interesting drug. Bone cancer is tragic. My sister had a German Shorthair Pointer and she was euthanized about 3 weeks after her diagnosis. She did have really bad arthritis since they got her (they adopted her at 10 years old) and the symptoms were masked. It was really hard for them, and I am sure it is for you. I am thrilled she is responding to the meds, I love when Western Medicine pulls through!! Just do your best to keep her comfortable, which it sounds like you already are.

 

[kmay]

That's what we are doing, keeping her comfortable. She's such a good dog, always has been. I was always todl that Great Danes were a little "slow" in the brain matter area, and acted as if they were small dogs. But we've never seen that in her. She's been one of the best dogs we've ever owned. I have to admit that people are afraid of her because of her size (she is a big girl) but no need to be because she would never hurt a fly. She loves kids and has always been very even tempered and loves all other dogs. (except the Boerboel)

Speaking of her, i am going to ask our vet to try another medication for her separation anxiety and see if she still says there is no other. I just looked at our vets web page and they do a few other medications called Reconcile, Mirtazapine, Clomipramine and Amitryptyline. I can't see why one of those others can't be tried.

I have used the same vet for over 20 yrs and he recently sold his practice to a corporation. So now we can't see him all the time, we have to see one of whoever's there. This vet that was taking care of our Boerboel, we butted heads from day 1 and I told them that I WILL NOT see her again. She's the one who prescribed this medication.

Maybe if I ask to see another one, they'll try a new medication on her. She really is a good dog. Loves everyone who will stop long enough to pet her, and really likes all the other animals in the yard, just for some reason, absolutely HATES the Dane.

 

[ElJayBee]

Fantastic! Sounds like things are going really well now. I'm so glad the treatment is working for your Dane. And seems like you've figured the boerboel out pretty well, and maybe a change in meds will help. I wish you continued luck...

 

[kmay]

We lost our Dane

Well, after 3 months of having treatments for Cancer, we did in fact lose our Great Dane Friday evening.
The dr. said that the treatments weren’t working anymore (which I knew) she was in to much pain and we had to help her go.

We got her when she was 5 months old from someone who was going to take her to the pound because they found out that she was an "unacceptable" Great Dane color for breeding, so we took her and spayed her.

We’ve had her over 9 yrs now. Great Danes usually have a short life span of about 8 years or so, so she was an old lady.

We took her to the vet in January because she was limping and it turned out she had bone cancer (and we caught it really early) The only option with bone cancer is to amputate the leg and do chemo, which in turn gives the dog usually 1 yr more of life, give or take depending on the size of the dog and the severity of the cancer.

Since the size of our dog dictated that the leg could not be amputated (she was 131 pounds) and because of her age the dr wouldn’t do it anyway, we opted for a different kind of treatement that worked even better than the dr. thought. Although they weren’t sure how long the treatmetn would work, it worked for 3 months.

She was diagnosed in January, and made it 3 months. The vet thinks that was wonderful, given her age and the fact that bone cancer is the most aggressive form of cancer that a dog can get.

We are heartbroken and so is our one other dog. (we have 3 other dogs, but her and our one dog were completely inseperable) we are giving them all lots of extra loves.

Rest in peace my big sweet Girl.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

RIP Big Girl. You and your family will be in our thoughts and prayers.

 

[ElJayBee]

so sorry to hear that...... RIP :-(

 

[moose]

So sorry for your loss..RIP :sad: