Cesar Millan's training techniques?

[CaneCorsoLover]

Hi,

I'm planning on taking my pup(when I adopt one) from puppy school through advanced obedience, but was just wondering your take on his approach to training. I know of several breeders that recommend his videos and books. Thanks

 

[musicdeb]

IMO, Cesar Milan's training is based on fear not positive reinforcement which is a better mode of training a mastiff. You'll see that a lot of forum members do not adhere to his training methods.

Mastiff do better with positive reinforcement. They can feel your emotions, so if you are anxious or afraid they will kick into protection/guardian mode. If you are frustrated with them, they will shut down and stop listening to you. Mastiffs require consistency in training with motivational rewards and LOTS of patience. When they hit the teenage stage (10-12 months), you may want to add a bottle of whiskey for you not the pup to the training regiment.

 

[sjdavenport]

I think that he does have some stuff right. I like his emphasis on exercise (a tired dogs is a happy dog, a tired dog is a well behaved dog!) and on having a lot of structured rules and strict boundaries for dogs. That being said, I don't like most of his other techniques. I tend to believe that aggressive training breeds aggressive dogs. He uses primarily aversive techniques, and I think that positive reinforcement and other positive methods will get you a lot farther and result in a much better relationship with your dog (although it is still important to be a calm, firm leader for your dog). I don't ever see a reason to "alpha roll" a dog, and I think it does a lot more damage than good. The more research that comes out, the more the whole dominance theory in respect to our dogs is changing. Here is a link that I really like:

The Dominance Controversy | Philosophy | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS

 

[LizB]

I have mixed feelings. You can really "ruin" a dog with some of the techniques, and if you take the pack leader attitude too seriously, which some people tend to do, it can cause the dog not to trust you and you could run into trouble. Mastiff breeds are independent thinkers and don't appreciate being bullied, and usually it is not required.

I DO agree with some of Cesar's techniques, like the no touch, no talk, no eye contact when you meet a dog or have an overexcited dog, and communicating with your dog by being aware of and controlling your mood and energy - this is a HUGE deal and very effective. Most people don't realize that the words coming out of their mouths ("bad boy!") said in a sing-song tone actually are perceived as praise from the dog. That type of thing is very good to know, and I'm with Cesar on a lot of it.

There's a lot of talk about how he snaps a dog out of a behavior by tapping it with his foot. Most people consider that kicking the dog, and I don't think that's what it is, though sometimes he gets a little vigorous. My own training for behavior problems did require that I get the dog's attention when they focused on something that I didn't want (trying to train the dog to ignore distractions), so I get the concept, but I would snap my fingers or pop the leash, make a sharp noise, etc. instead.

You definitely don't want to be "kicking" a mastiff breed dog, and you'll get into trouble if you try to alpha-roll them or physically dominate them. That's not how you get the most out of your mastiff and is a good way to destroy your bond and get injured. In general they are not particularly eager to please you in the way that many breeds are, but if you start early and let them know what is expected you can let them be and they'll never let you down. I think of my pet mastiff as part of my team, and we all have our roles and our jobs to do.

Very interesting link, sjdavenport, thanks for sharing!

 

[Penelope's Mom]

I don't think his methods should be used on a fearful dog at all. If I tried any of his methods with Franklin, he would have been much worse.

 

[LizB]

I don't think his methods should be used on a fearful dog at all. If I tried any of his methods with Franklin, he would have been much worse.

This is important! I currently have a severely anxious Shepherd/Dane rescue and you can't look crossways at him, lol. He needs a completely different technique designed to build confidence (don't let him fail, tons of praise for doing it right every time). These dominant and punitive training techniques would kill his soul for sure.

I used a prong collar on a sensitive dog, thinking because he was so huge that I needed the extra control, and it made everything completely worse in terms of his reactivity, rather than training him to react less to avoid the collar tightening. I'll never forgive myself for that, but I didn't know anything about sensitive/fearful dogs then.

One size does NOT fit all when it comes to dog training.

 

[cj-sharpy]

I think a lot of what he says rings true. But a lot of what he practices is abhorrent. YouTube him with the word WRONG and you'll see him intentionally ignoring warning signs from a terrified golden retriever and baiting the dog to bite for the good of TV rather than the good of the dog.
And Id say his "dominance" approach is wrong too. I've never tried to dominate my boy cos he's terrified of the world so I don't want him to fear me too. The house should be a place of no fear.
That said I agree that his no touch no look no talk approach with strangers is fantastic. It works a treat.

 

[Zeus and I]

I think you should watch the videos and watch other videos from other "trainers". Watch how different people teach the same thing(pulling,aggression) and see what works best for you and the dog. Every dog is different. Some of his techniques have worked extremely well for me. But so have others from other dog people.

 

[cayeesmom]

I have only seen a few of his shows on TV, don't care to much for them as it's made for TV. But I have read one of his books and there is a lot of good stuff in them.

 

[DennasMom]

I loved his early stuff, but he got "Hollywooded"... and I lost interest.

I have one of his books, and it was just a write-up of various episodes of the TV show. Pretty much worthless.
I do think his methods are good at rehabilitating 'lost' dogs, I especially love his pack at the dog psychology center... but for puppies, you don't need any of his more controversial methods.

I've taken 4 dogs through obedience classes at at least 5 different places. The one I found worked best was the last one with Denna - we did all-positive training. We used lots of treats and a clicker in the early classes, then just treats and communication skills in the later classes.

Denna is a certified Canine Good Citizen - which was a really fun accomplishment. You have to get your dog to follow you on a loose leash, through distractions, with out using any leash corrections (you can use voice cues). Learning to control a mastiff with voice-only is a GREAT idea, since it's very likely when they're an adult, you won't be able to physically out-maneuver them.

 

[Hector]

LizB, great post.

DennasMom, totally agree.

Here's a great read:

Establishing Leadership

Establishing Leadership (page 2)

 

[PrinceLorde13]

I am a fan of ceasar if for nothing else other then his tireless work for dogs rights. For me it seems his techniques are not the best for simply training your puppy dog, however once a dog has not been trained properly and has a negative behavior as a result I think ceasar is wonderful with out of the box ways to help correct these behaviors. One big thing I feel he does tend to do is over generalize about dogs, their behavior and responses to training techniques can vary so much between breeds. And his are heavily developed with pits in mind. I had pits before my mastiffs and it was a different world of training compared to my corsos. If you watch his show it blows my mind just how much dumber then their dog a lot of the owners are. Best example I can think of, an owner had a problem with their dog stealing everything, the only way they had found to get the item back was to give a treat. Then they didn't understand why he not only kept stealing things but was getting worse about it! Ha. But hey good for mr. Milan for trying to educate people on dogs, no one person knows all the right ways, look at human psychology and how dramatically divided opinions are between the top people in the fields. I also love that putting a dog down is almost not an option for him when so many people turn to killing their dog just because it is the easiest solution for them.

 

[LizB]

PrinceLorde13, I have a friend who swore by the "trade" technique for her pup. I couldn't believe it, but apparently it is a common method. The dog has your cell phone, gnawing away, and growls when you try to get it back (umm, I don't THINK so!) so you trade the phone for a treat. Ugh. Dogs are so much smarter than we think, and this seems like a great deal to them. When I take something Mommy doesn't want me to have, she ALWAYS gives me yummy treats! Woo hoo!

I also agree that Cesar is a huge advocate for dogs that people otherwise give up on. When you watch one of his shows, 80% of the time you see the "problem" and most all of us here would know immediately how to solve it, because the owner is completely oblivious, but sometimes the owner is doing everything right and the dog is just a mess. Putting a dog in with a huge pack at the Psychology Center is a remarkable thing to watch, especially when it is a dog that has shown aggression with other dogs. The pack seems to fix the dog right up, and when they show the dog again after a few weeks, it looks happy, energetic, and totally comfortable and relaxed. If you put that dog right back into the same home situation without educating the owners, however, then it is a waste.

Too bad most of us don't have access to that kind of rehab - I think my boy Busa would get a lot out of that environment.

 

[Sinnister]

I have no issues with ceaser if for nothing else he advocates treating a dog as a dog and not a human. I'm willing to bet a weeks pay more dogs get ruined by well intentioned owners trying to treat their pooch like a human baby than there are dogs ruined by abuse.

Variety. What works for some dogs and trainers may not work for yours. There is no cookie cutter method that is fool proof. If your mind is open to various approaches - within reason of course, you"ll be just fine.

 

[Bailey's Mom]

I am a fan of ceasar if for nothing else other then his tireless work for dogs rights. For me it seems his techniques are not the best for simply training your puppy dog, however once a dog has not been trained properly and has a negative behavior as a result I think ceasar is wonderful with out of the box ways to help correct these behaviors. One big thing I feel he does tend to do is over generalize about dogs, their behavior and responses to training techniques can vary so much between breeds. And his are heavily developed with pits in mind. I had pits before my mastiffs and it was a different world of training compared to my corsos. If you watch his show it blows my mind just how much dumber then their dog a lot of the owners are. Best example I can think of, an owner had a problem with their dog stealing everything, the only way they had found to get the item back was to give a treat. Then they didn't understand why he not only kept stealing things but was getting worse about it! Ha. But hey good for mr. Milan for trying to educate people on dogs, no one person knows all the right ways, look at human psychology and how dramatically divided opinions are between the top people in the fields. I also love that putting a dog down is almost not an option for him when so many people turn to killing their dog just because it is the easiest solution for them.

I have no issues with ceaser if for nothing else he advocates treating a dog as a dog and not a human. I'm willing to bet a weeks pay more dogs get ruined by well intentioned owners trying to treat their pooch like a human baby than there are dogs ruined by abuse.

Variety. What works for some dogs and trainers may not work for yours. There is no cookie cutter method that is fool proof. If your mind is open to various approaches - within reason of course, you"ll be just fine.

Ditto! And, I'm one of the guilty anthropormorphising humans who often treats her dog as a child. However, I rejoice in her life as a dog. And I'm grateful for some of the simple lessons CM taught me. AND, since there are few examples of dog training that you can view without paying a hefty price, he has provided a body of work which I have often referred to. Oh, I've seen a few screw ups, but I think his understanding far exceeds his verbal abilities to explain what's working. That's probably my biggest complaint, I see him doing something and I want to replicate it, but...how, break it down, step by step because he gets the result as if by magic (maybe editing), and I'm baffled.

Still...If I could spend a week with him and Bailey at his centre, I would jump at it (and so would most of you) (minus the film crew though.)

 

[DMikeM]

Personally I am a Cesar hater. He abuses dogs to control them and at least one dog died while being "Trained" by Cesar. Some of what he does is fine and are not his techniques as I was doing the same thing before we knew CM existed. The kicking thing he does is applied incorrectly. One of the proper ways to do it is to tap a dog in the hind quarter with the heal of your foot. CM puts his heal or toe into the gut or open cage of the dog. This is dangerous and can cause organ damage. Poking a dog in the neck to illicit a response is asinine and abusive. He has hanged a wolf/hybrid dog on a choker until it crowned and peed itself and it started to lose consciousness because it reacted to him kicking it in the gut. Most of what he does with dogs would fail on a mastiff as they would either shut down, attack or become fearful.

No matter what good he does for the dog community does not absolve him of his past deeds.

 

[musicdeb]

Personally I am a Cesar hater. He abuses dogs to control them and at least one dog died while being "Trained" by Cesar. Some of what he does is fine and are not his techniques as I was doing the same thing before we knew CM existed. The kicking thing he does is applied incorrectly. One of the proper ways to do it is to tap a dog in the hind quarter with the heal of your foot. CM puts his heal or toe into the gut or open cage of the dog. This is dangerous and can cause organ damage. Poking a dog in the neck to illicit a response is asinine and abusive. He has hanged a wolf/hybrid dog on a choker until it crowned and peed itself and it started to lose consciousness because it reacted to him kicking it in the gut. Most of what he does with dogs would fail on a mastiff as they would either shut down, attack or become fearful.

No matter what good he does for the dog community does not absolve him of his past deeds.

Agree

 

[Bailey's Mom]

Heard about the dog that died running the treadmill, the owners had sent both their dog and their trainer to work with CM. What I understand is that CM gave instruction to trainer, left and trainer took it too far. Is this matter before the courts? Has a settlement or finding been made?

Never heard about the hybrid though I've seen a show or two where he refers wolf hybrids to another woman who specializes in their different training methods. He is definitely NOT a fan of hybrids and was, as I remember, quite vocal that people should avoid this trend.

I've used the toe tap on the hind leg, and it works, though in a stressful situation switching to one leg with a pulling dog is difficult. Other things, like having the dog walk so calmly beside you, I found very difficult. And, it doesn't make sense to me because when I walk my dog, the walk is for her to enjoy herself. There has to be a comfortable middle ground and he doesn't explain it very well.

That's the problem he doesn't explain how he gets the miraculous turn around... Maybe it's just me, maybe it's just editing.

I only bought one book on puppy training and it was dull...I don't think he wrote it, it was so...so different from him...it made me wonder. It was like sound bites.

To err is human, though through a media lens it is multiplied a thousand times. I think on a balance he is a positive influence and a true advocate for canine rights.

 

[Th0r]

Most of his work is fixing and rehabilitating wrong behaviour. They tend to be last resort in some cases, why would it be relevant for puppy training?
Puppies can be snapped out of unwanted behaviour easily compared to dogs that have been doing it for long periods of their lives.

 

[Mag-Pie]

Love him or hate him, think he is right, wrong or are indifferent to his techniques, the way I see it CM is not a dog trainer, a statement he's made again and again. He's more or a self-help guru, a self described dog psychologist if you like. He likes to point out that he trains people, and from what I've seen, it is the people who need training. And so he spends a lot more time talking about changing human behavior than he does about training dogs. IMO, what viewers see of him on t.v. is usually done for ratings, not so much of what actually goes on behind the scenes. Also, he's usually called to work with dogs that are on their way out, either because their owners are incompetent in handling them or the dog has been deemed a threat to society and it's up to CM to try to rehabilitate it. And so t.v. drama unfolds, neatly packaged into an hour of entertainment for the masses. Reality t.v. is still just t.v. and I take it with a grain of salt.

While CM provides some basic how-to advice on dealing with dogs, his handling methods, (which I suspect to CM might be secondary to his overall philosophy), are what elicits most of the hatred directed at him, resulting in his philosophy being somewhat overlooked. Which is too bad. I've read a few of his books, and have enjoyed them, but they certainly are not 'tricks to train your dog' type of books. Nevertheless, I really like his emphasis on the necessity of exercising your dog, not anthropomorphizing your dog, the need for balance, and giving direction via calm-assertive leadership. Also the whole 'no touch, no talk, no eye contact' while introducing reactive dogs to strangers is spot on in it's advice.

However, personally I do not believe in flipping dogs over in hopes of making them submit, and showing them you are the "alpha". Plus I'd like to see him (or anyone for that matter) flip over a strange aggressive 150+ lbs mastiff and show how well this technique works in rehabilitating the dog. I doubt that even CM, who is known for such tactics, would attempt it. Through the years I've watched many of the episodes, and usually CM is able to make a breakthrough with the dog after only a few minutes upon meeting it, the dog submits and relaxes, going along with what is asked of it. I've only seen one episode where it took CM something like twenty minutes to approach a dog, and that dog was 130 lbs and aggressive, there was no flipping him over, no "kicking" it to snap it out of it's zone, etc. So I am pretty sure size/strength/intensity of dog plays into how CM handles him, just as much as what he is willing to do for ratings.