Cinder Starting Training

[Hector]

The first thing I noticed between the videos was that she was sit/stay much farther than the last two attempts. I would have placed her at the location of the first video. When you try to sit stay a dog closer to a distraction (food in this case), you're actually increasing the difficulty of the task. Definitely try to use a mat to make it a distinctive spot to sit/stay until she gets really good at it and you can then remove the mat. The second thing I noticed is that the man did not follow through with his commands. I understand this is hard for any dog, but the people giving commands needs to follow through. Otherwise it becomes a habit of repeating commands before the dog complies. Also if you don't follow through then the dog starts thinking, I'll just wait him out and doesn't actually try to work it through in their brain. Also since she is struggling a bit, I would suggest training sit/stay around food before meal time. I don't know if you use treats or you can even split her meals into smaller pieces so you can use that to train throughout the day. Another thing to remember is to help the dog out as much as possible. Use verbal cue, but don't over repeat yourself, use hand signals, body pressure, a leash, etc to help them succeed. You should also try to get her to offer some degree of eye contact before she gets food so she doesn't just focus all her energy at the food.

 

[NYDDB]

One thing I noticed, too, is the tone of the voice used--- it almost sounds like a suggestion (or question) rather than a 'command.' Not that you (or your husband) need to shout- not at all- but rather, that the command is given in a simple but clear and concise way.

"STAY", with accompanying body language (again, simple, but direct, and with follow through) will communicate clearly what you expect her to do.

That said, for her being such a young pup, I think she's doing awesome.

 

[Hector]

I completely agree with not punishing the growl. My dog even as a young pup was very growly. He growls out of fear, insecurity, just very bad nerves. Basically his first response to everything was by growling. I did not know anything about dog training back then so I was not equipped with a dog acting this way. I took him to a very well known trainer who was yank and crank and put a prong collar on him and corrected him and then told me to correct him anytime he growled at the guy. I did what I was told, but after the first session I never went back. I'm telling you this dog was a nervous wreck and he growled at us when he was sleeping, he'd growl at my bf over chews even though I've done tons of drop it leave it exercises and was pretty much a pro before 1 yr old, redirected his growling at other dogs when he felt pressured, woke up growling at a person if they walked by, growled if someone dropped something or if someone moved a chair, just growling with no obvious triggers. The worse part is that he didn't know how to stop. At times he'd start growling and then run towards us before he stops. This made everyone stressed out as we didn't know how to address it correctly. I decided to start sending him to his crate. It did restrict him from growling, but I believe it taught him to go in his crate anytime he felt uncomfortable because there were situations that would trigger his growling, but he decided to step off the couch and go to the crate on his own. The crate has not been seen as anything negative to my dog. He sleeps in it when I'm not home. Sometimes he even plays in it. Before I send him to his crate, I'd use an off command if he's on the couch or I will recall him to me and then command him to his crate, so it's not like growl = crate. It's growl, then a command (knock it off, no, off) then a crate command.

Also the crate is not a fix to the problem. It's really just another tool you can use when things get heated and everyone needs time and space to calm down. It will never replace real training. You do have to work hard on desensitization/counter conditioning with the dog. The one thing that I didn't know how to teach was outing the dog while he was eating and if I had known how to use a mat/place, I would have used that too. I can assure you that my almost 4 yr old dog that has been sent to his crate for growling over the years (was a daily thing) is free to growl when he needs to and still does, but not so much at us anymore.

 

[Hector]

I completely agree with not punishing the growl. My dog even as a young pup was very growly. He growls out of fear, insecurity, just very bad nerves. Basically his first response to everything was by growling. I did not know anything about dog training back then so I was not equipped with a dog acting this way. I took him to a very well known trainer who was yank and crank and put a prong collar on him and corrected him and then told me to correct him anytime he growled at the guy. I did what I was told, but after the first session I never went back. I'm telling you this dog was a nervous wreck and he growled at us when he was sleeping, he'd growl at my bf over chews even though I've done tons of drop it leave it exercises and was pretty much a pro before 1 yr old, redirected his growling at other dogs when he felt pressured, woke up growling at a person if they walked by, growled if someone dropped something or if someone moved a chair, just growling with no obvious triggers. The worse part is that he didn't know how to stop. At times he'd start growling and then run towards us before he stops. This made everyone stressed out as we didn't know how to address it correctly. I decided to start sending him to his crate. It did restrict him from growling, but I believe it taught him to go in his crate anytime he felt uncomfortable because there were situations that would trigger his growling, but he decided to step off the couch and go to the crate on his own. The crate has not been seen as anything negative to my dog. He sleeps in it when I'm not home. Sometimes he even plays in it. Before I send him to his crate, I'd use an off command if he's on the couch or I will recall him to me and then command him to his crate, so it's not like growl = crate. It's growl, then a command (knock it off, no, off) then a crate command. Also the crate is not a fix to the problem. It's really just another tool you can use when things get heated and everyone needs time and space to calm down. It will never replace real training. You do have to work hard on desensitization/counter conditioning with the dog. The one thing that I didn't know how to teach was outing the dog while he was eating and if I had known how to use a mat/place, I would have used that too. I can assure you that my almost 4 yr old dog that has been sent to his crate for growling over the years (was a daily thing) is free to growl when he needs to and still does, but not so much at us anymore.

I didn't mean to say it did restrict him from growling. I meant to say it did lessen the episodes as he tried coping with any pressure he felt by stepping off the couch or just getting up and going into his crate.

 

[Winter's Cinder]

The first thing I noticed between the videos was that she was sit/stay much farther than the last two attempts. I would have placed her at the location of the first video. When you try to sit stay a dog closer to a distraction (food in this case), you're actually increasing the difficulty of the task. Definitely try to use a mat to make it a distinctive spot to sit/stay until she gets really good at it and you can then remove the mat. The second thing I noticed is that the man did not follow through with his commands. I understand this is hard for any dog, but the people giving commands needs to follow through. Otherwise it becomes a habit of repeating commands before the dog complies. Also if you don't follow through then the dog starts thinking, I'll just wait him out and doesn't actually try to work it through in their brain. Also since she is struggling a bit, I would suggest training sit/stay around food before meal time. I don't know if you use treats or you can even split her meals into smaller pieces so you can use that to train throughout the day. Another thing to remember is to help the dog out as much as possible. Use verbal cue, but don't over repeat yourself, use hand signals, body pressure, a leash, etc to help them succeed. You should also try to get her to offer some degree of eye contact before she gets food so she doesn't just focus all her energy at the food.

"The man" needs some training too ;-)...
The mat would be a useful tool because she does slide a lot on that floor... some of her movement while sitting/staying is from her sliding on the floor...

We will def work on some things and I appreciate all the constructive suggests!!!

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

 

[karennj]

I completely agree with not punishing the growl. My dog even as a young pup was very growly. He growls out of fear, insecurity, just very bad nerves. Basically his first response to everything was by growling. I did not know anything about dog training back then so I was not equipped with a dog acting this way. I took him to a very well known trainer who was yank and crank and put a prong collar on him and corrected him and then told me to correct him anytime he growled at the guy. I did what I was told, but after the first session I never went back. I'm telling you this dog was a nervous wreck and he growled at us when he was sleeping, he'd growl at my bf over chews even though I've done tons of drop it leave it exercises and was pretty much a pro before 1 yr old, redirected his growling at other dogs when he felt pressured, woke up growling at a person if they walked by, growled if someone dropped something or if someone moved a chair, just growling with no obvious triggers. The worse part is that he didn't know how to stop. At times he'd start growling and then run towards us before he stops. This made everyone stressed out as we didn't know how to address it correctly. I decided to start sending him to his crate. It did restrict him from growling, but I believe it taught him to go in his crate anytime he felt uncomfortable because there were situations that would trigger his growling, but he decided to step off the couch and go to the crate on his own. The crate has not been seen as anything negative to my dog. He sleeps in it when I'm not home. Sometimes he even plays in it. Before I send him to his crate, I'd use an off command if he's on the couch or I will recall him to me and then command him to his crate, so it's not like growl = crate. It's growl, then a command (knock it off, no, off) then a crate command. Also the crate is not a fix to the problem. It's really just another tool you can use when things get heated and everyone needs time and space to calm down. It will never replace real training. You do have to work hard on desensitization/counter conditioning with the dog. The one thing that I didn't know how to teach was outing the dog while he was eating and if I had known how to use a mat/place, I would have used that too. I can assure you that my almost 4 yr old dog that has been sent to his crate for growling over the years (was a daily thing) is free to growl when he needs to and still does, but not so much at us anymore.

Very well Said!

 

[sjdavenport]

Well, if you figure out how to train your man, be sure to let me in on the secret! You've gotten some great advice (I certainly couldn't have put it any better than Hector, Hiraeth, Karennj). My current corso was my first puppy that I've truly raised from a little pup, so I had so much to learn about training beyond the very basics. You've gotten a great start and are definitely on the right path. I would encourage you to continue working on impulse control beyond just waiting for meals. I've found it to be one of the most important and useful skills I ever worked on with Rhaegar. It's vital to so many good behaviors, from leave it, drop it, wait at the door (or wait for meals), recalls, place, loose leash walking, to pretty much everything! There are a million different exercises to encourage impulse control. I have WAY too many video clips of my boy, so I thought I might share some of the exercises we have done (and continue to do on a daily basis) in case they may be helpful. Good luck with your adorable girl, and I really love the name Cinder! [video=youtube;xoC6To7HmvM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=xoC6To7HmvM[/video]

 

[karennj]

Look at the wait with eye contact while waiting for food! I also teach a look at me for "leave it" and love seeing dogs who are engaged with their owner!

 

[Hector]

Well, if you figure out how to train your man, be sure to let me in on the secret! You've gotten some great advice (I certainly couldn't have put it any better than Hector, Hiraeth, Karennj). My current corso was my first puppy that I've truly raised from a little pup, so I had so much to learn about training beyond the very basics. You've gotten a great start and are definitely on the right path. I would encourage you to continue working on impulse control beyond just waiting for meals. I've found it to be one of the most important and useful skills I ever worked on with Rhaegar. It's vital to so many good behaviors, from leave it, drop it, wait at the door (or wait for meals), recalls, place, loose leash walking, to pretty much everything! There are a million different exercises to encourage impulse control. I have WAY too many video clips of my boy, so I thought I might share some of the exercises we have done (and continue to do on a daily basis) in case they may be helpful. Good luck with your adorable girl, and I really love the name Cinder! [video=youtube;xoC6To7HmvM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=xoC6To7HmvM[/video]

Definitely this. Lots of ways to work on impulse control around food. A lot of the exercises not only work on impulse control, but basic obedience, engagement, relationship building, and communication skills. Look up bucket game on youtube. Here are some videos that involve control around food work. [video=youtube;cESKZRgpfZw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cESKZRgpfZw[/video]

 

[Hector]

[video=youtube;8nn8bJCZ6Ew]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nn8bJCZ6Ew[/video]

 

[Hector]

This lady has a ton of zen stuff on her channel. You should definitely check them out. [video=youtube;XbO_dRpJMco]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbO_dRpJMco[/video]

 

[Winter's Cinder]

Well, if you figure out how to train your man, be sure to let me in on the secret! You've gotten some great advice (I certainly couldn't have put it any better than Hector, Hiraeth, Karennj). My current corso was my first puppy that I've truly raised from a little pup, so I had so much to learn about training beyond the very basics. You've gotten a great start and are definitely on the right path. I would encourage you to continue working on impulse control beyond just waiting for meals. I've found it to be one of the most important and useful skills I ever worked on with Rhaegar. It's vital to so many good behaviors, from leave it, drop it, wait at the door (or wait for meals), recalls, place, loose leash walking, to pretty much everything! There are a million different exercises to encourage impulse control. I have WAY too many video clips of my boy, so I thought I might share some of the exercises we have done (and continue to do on a daily basis) in case they may be helpful. Good luck with your adorable girl, and I really love the name Cinder! [video=youtube;xoC6To7HmvM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=xoC6To7HmvM[/video]

Craig and I have known each other for 13 yrs and together for 7... not sure I'm much help on the man training part.. LOL!!!
I had a couple of mutts that I had from pups, and they were well behaved, but not trained... its been a decade since having a dog of my own again... so im working on getting into the training mode...
I dont think you can have too many videos of rhaegar... I can hardly concentrate on the training part or you video... he is just too cute!!! He just looks like he will always have that puppy look to his face!!!
Cinder was born on Halloween so I tried to find something fitting as her name... the kids really wanted to help and since it was so close to christmas when we got her (my birthday is the 20th... lol) that names like prancer and rudolph were at the top of their lists!!

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

 

[mikshyle]

There is some really great info here, I didn't have a chance to entirely read every post so I apologize if I am asking something that was discussed already. Rosie is 3 1/2 months. She seems to be very smart and is doing great with training, she seems to learn it within the first 3-5 attempts. She has been doing sit, stay, come, down, off and leave it (treat on the floor after she has done sit and down) My issue is that the vet told me not to use treats all of the time, to use praise more. When I use her treats she does everything I ask. I tried having her do a few commands with praise and then give her treats when we were done. She did well with that at first now she just sits there as if to say "I'm not doing this is I don't get a treat". I noticed you said lots of treats now and just for praise when she is older. She was doing so well and now I feel like we are kind of going backwards is this why do you think ? The other thing. I think she is so lazy lol.... When ever we try to take her out and she sees the leash or if you ask if she wants to go out she runs into her crate. Once we get her she goes as soon as we get outside. She is doing great in the house and has had no accidents in about a week. (We were having the carpet accidents, so we are making sure she is taken out frequently) But all has been good with that. She does let us know when she has to go and then she doesn't run to crate. But yet when she does resist she still goes when we get her outside. Should we be going more on her cue now or just continue taking her out even when she doesn't seem to want to??

 

[Hiraeth]

"The man" needs some training too ;-)... The mat would be a useful tool because she does slide a lot on that floor... some of her movement while sitting/staying is from her sliding on the floor... We will def work on some things and I appreciate all the constructive suggests!!!Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

I meant to address the slippery floor issue in my previous post and forgot. I would highly recommend that you get carpet runners and area rugs for all of those wooden floors in your home. One thing with giant breeds is that they do NOT do well on wooden/tile floors. One day she's going to start zooming around, not be able to maintain her balance and fall, with the potential to really hurt herself in the process.

Also, all of that slipping and sliding is putting stress on her already stressed joints. Even when she sits and her paws slide out - that's joint stress.

I know you most likely have wooden floors in your home because you don't want to deal with carpet, but one of the things about having a giant breed is that carpet is a necessary evil, unless you want to deal with reconstructive joint surgery, cruciate tears and early onset arthritis related to joint stress later on in life.

 

[Hector]

I meant to address the slippery floor issue in my previous post and forgot. I would highly recommend that you get carpet runners and area rugs for all of those wooden floors in your home. One thing with giant breeds is that they do NOT do well on wooden/tile floors. One day she's going to start zooming around, not be able to maintain her balance and fall, with the potential to really hurt herself in the process. Also, all of that slipping and sliding is putting stress on her already stressed joints. Even when she sits and her paws slide out - that's joint stress. I know you most likely have wooden floors in your home because you don't want to deal with carpet, but one of the things about having a giant breed is that carpet is a necessary evil, unless you want to deal with reconstructive joint surgery, cruciate tears and early onset arthritis related to joint stress later on in life.

Learned our lesson here dealing with a spinal injury.

 

[season]

There is some really great info here, I didn't have a chance to entirely read every post so I apologize if I am asking something that was discussed already. Rosie is 3 1/2 months. She seems to be very smart and is doing great with training, she seems to learn it within the first 3-5 attempts. She has been doing sit, stay, come, down, off and leave it (treat on the floor after she has done sit and down) My issue is that the vet told me not to use treats all of the time, to use praise more. When I use her treats she does everything I ask. I tried having her do a few commands with praise and then give her treats when we were done. She did well with that at first now she just sits there as if to say "I'm not doing this is I don't get a treat". I noticed you said lots of treats now and just for praise when she is older. She was doing so well and now I feel like we are kind of going backwards is this why do you think ? The other thing. I think she is so lazy lol.... When ever we try to take her out and she sees the leash or if you ask if she wants to go out she runs into her crate. Once we get her she goes as soon as we get outside. She is doing great in the house and has had no accidents in about a week. (We were having the carpet accidents, so we are making sure she is taken out frequently) But all has been good with that. She does let us know when she has to go and then she doesn't run to crate. But yet when she does resist she still goes when we get her outside. Should we be going more on her cue now or just continue taking her out even when she doesn't seem to want to??

First off, treats are great...but don't get stuck in the trap of having to use them all of the time...especially when your dog clearly knows a command and is choosing not to do it. Then your dog is training you.Also, I'd continue to take the dog out when you decide...don't rely on the dog to let you know...it's all part of setting up your routine and not allowing the dog to dictate what it wants when it wants. Be the leader. Puppies and dogs will do what they are allowed to do and if not obeying your command works for them they will continue to do that. Solo still does it from time to time....he's very food motivated...but I don't let him dictate when he gets a treat.

 

[Winter's Cinder]

I meant to address the slippery floor issue in my previous post and forgot. I would highly recommend that you get carpet runners and area rugs for all of those wooden floors in your home. One thing with giant breeds is that they do NOT do well on wooden/tile floors. One day she's going to start zooming around, not be able to maintain her balance and fall, with the potential to really hurt herself in the process.

Also, all of that slipping and sliding is putting stress on her already stressed joints. Even when she sits and her paws slide out - that's joint stress.

I know you most likely have wooden floors in your home because you don't want to deal with carpet, but one of the things about having a giant breed is that carpet is a necessary evil, unless you want to deal with reconstructive joint surgery, cruciate tears and early onset arthritis related to joint stress later on in life.

The area in the video (kitchen and dining) is the only large area that had the wooden floors... our mudroom has the same floors (that door is closed 95% of the time) and the 2 bathrooms have linoleum. .. everything else is shaggy, plushy carpet (we bought this house in august and plan to stay forever!!! Have you ever moved with 4 freaking kids?!?!)
I'm working on getting rugs for the kitchen area... im not worried too much about the dining area because the table takes up most of the room... but that big clear space in the video needs something... kids have crashes and burned...

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

 

[Winter's Cinder]

There is some really great info here, I didn't have a chance to entirely read every post so I apologize if I am asking something that was discussed already. Rosie is 3 1/2 months. She seems to be very smart and is doing great with training, she seems to learn it within the first 3-5 attempts. She has been doing sit, stay, come, down, off and leave it (treat on the floor after she has done sit and down) My issue is that the vet told me not to use treats all of the time, to use praise more. When I use her treats she does everything I ask. I tried having her do a few commands with praise and then give her treats when we were done. She did well with that at first now she just sits there as if to say "I'm not doing this is I don't get a treat". I noticed you said lots of treats now and just for praise when she is older. She was doing so well and now I feel like we are kind of going backwards is this why do you think ? The other thing. I think she is so lazy lol.... When ever we try to take her out and she sees the leash or if you ask if she wants to go out she runs into her crate. Once we get her she goes as soon as we get outside. She is doing great in the house and has had no accidents in about a week. (We were having the carpet accidents, so we are making sure she is taken out frequently) But all has been good with that. She does let us know when she has to go and then she doesn't run to crate. But yet when she does resist she still goes when we get her outside. Should we be going more on her cue now or just continue taking her out even when she doesn't seem to want to??

At first I used treats all the time for cinder... she still gets treats but I try to give them to her less as we go along...
In an earlier post I told about the neighbors moving a car during her potty time.. she was more focused on me because she KNEW I had those treats!! She got a few right off the bat for doing her business, and staying next to me... but I did just give her praise for some of the other things she did... once back in the house she got the last small treat I had in hand and lots and lots of praise...
She is very food motivated, but she also loves the lovies... I try to give her treats because I made my own liver ones and use that as part of her daily allotment .... she just gets more with new commands than she does with maintaining....

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

 

[Winter's Cinder]

So I took some advice this morning and tried some placement and longer stay time training with breakfast...
I made some dehydrated liver treats (no mix... just sliced the beef liver into strips and dehydrated them) and I use these treats as part of her daily diet allotment... as much as she loves these treats, nothing motivates her as much as her meals!!
Anyway... she knows "bed" as her nightly command for getting in her kennel when I go to bed... since its in the kitchen area, I figured this was the best way to work on place training for meals..
She was reluctant to get in because she also knows I close the door at night... but she did it anyway (small yay!!) She also followed commands to sit and stay inside the kennel... (another small yay!!)
as she realized I didn't close the door and broke eye contact to get her food ready, she snuck out ever so slowly... lol... I then repeated her commands and got her back to sitting in the kennel and staying... and she did very well until I started pulling the skin off the chicken... to which she came out to get closer to me and her food...
3rd time she followed commands to get in 'bed', sit, and stay... she did stay for the full time of me preparing her food, and getting it in her bowl (approx 1-2 mins) and she actually waited for me to tell her it was ok to get out and eat!! (Big yay!!)
I'm really surprised she did so well with minimal attemps!! After thinking about it, I maybe should of given small treats with the bed, sit, and stay commands but she was really focused with meal prep so I skipped the treats...
Im proud of her for getting it, and I'm proud of myself for using minimum voice (i tried really hard not to repeat commands a lot) and using some hand signals with my commands. ..
I hope to get a video around lunch time to see if she can repeat her good self!!!
Lastly (in the long post) thanks for all the input and suggestions!!! You guys are awesome!!!

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

 

[tmricciuto]

Great job. Accept all those small victories for what they are...victories!!!!