What's new
Mastiff Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Welcome back!

    We decided to spruce things up and fix some things under the hood. If you notice any issues, feel free to contact us as we're sure there are a few things here or there that we might have missed in our upgrade.

Daily Training

I can see she is uncomfortable with downing on the gravel. Is it because of the gravel or do you think it's difficult for her to get down? Is she just learning all of these basics? Do you use markers and release words? I also see that after a command, sometimes you ask for a different behavior and sometimes you ask for duration and I feel like if you used markers and release words, it would make things more clear for her. She has a great wait and come by the way.
She has an easy time of it and does it very quickly indoors. The gravel was intentional as she is VERY aware of different textures. Carpet vs Tile is like a whole different training session. I'd have to force her to walk through a mud puddle, she'd rather walk around. As soon as I can get time with the wife for recording I will do a no food and/or luring, on familiar ground (carpet) video. She can stand, down stand, sit down sit, no problem inside the house. This was only our 2nd outdoor training session with no leash. She isn't used to training outdoors for 1 and for 2 she's used to training outdoors with a leash. Our down training is almost non existent outdoors because up until recent outdoors was all walks and different types of commands. I wanted to challenge US that day so that I could capture difficulties and mistakes =) . Also the randomness in rewards(2 sits + down sometimes. 4 sits and a down sometimes) and duration(5 secs, 2 minutes, 45 seconds) I read (Dr. Ian Dunbar, and puts it much more elequently I might add) that the randomness helps to cement the behaviors better and have less anticipation of the next Queue. Thus REally following commands and not the routine.
 
Her release word is break. I only release when we are done with the entire training session. I only use break when she is allowed "free time". Such as after waiting to go through the door to "outside". You see me use break at the very end of the video. It's the last command I give before she goes to get water and I go to eat my own breakfast.
 
/GASP BUT YOU LET YOUR DOG EAT BEFORE YOU!?!?!?!? Yes, and clearly she "dominates" me during this training session by not laying down the first time I give her the command... LMFAO Maybe I should beat her into submission or try on of those alpha roll things I read 500 articles about?...Personally I like sushi rolls better.
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
She has an easy time of it and does it very quickly indoors. The gravel was intentional as she is VERY aware of different textures. Carpet vs Tile is like a whole different training session. I'd have to force her to walk through a mud puddle, she'd rather walk around. As soon as I can get time with the wife for recording I will do a no food and/or luring, on familiar ground (carpet) video. She can stand, down stand, sit down sit, no problem inside the house. This was only our 2nd outdoor training session with no leash. She isn't used to training outdoors for 1 and for 2 she's used to training outdoors with a leash. Our down training is almost non existent outdoors because up until recent outdoors was all walks and different types of commands. I wanted to challenge US that day so that I could capture difficulties and mistakes =) . Also the randomness in rewards(2 sits + down sometimes. 4 sits and a down sometimes) and duration(5 secs, 2 minutes, 45 seconds) I read (Dr. Ian Dunbar, and puts it much more elequently I might add) that the randomness helps to cement the behaviors better and have less anticipation of the next Queue. Thus REally following commands and not the routine.
Okay, gotcha. Working on training in distracted environments.
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
Her release word is break. I only release when we are done with the entire training session. I only use break when she is allowed "free time". Such as after waiting to go through the door to "outside". You see me use break at the very end of the video. It's the last command I give before she goes to get water and I go to eat my own breakfast.
For me a release word after a whole training session is different from a release word after each command or a series of commands. I use all done for end session.
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
/GASP BUT YOU LET YOUR DOG EAT BEFORE YOU!?!?!?!? Yes, and clearly she "dominates" me during this training session by not laying down the first time I give her the command... LMFAO Maybe I should beat her into submission or try on of those alpha roll things I read 500 articles about?...Personally I like sushi rolls better.
Is this addressed to my replies?
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
Its to hopefully lighten some hearts and insight laughter. (A Joke) She was not dominating anything lol. Except for hank when he has the "good" antler lol.
Oh I didn't see any domination and don't believe that when dogs eat before you they are trying to dominate you horse crap. I like to see it as the dog is distracted, dog is not motivated, dog doesn't know commands well, something is bothering the dog, dog is not good with generalizing commands or handler inconsistent with cues. I will blame everything else before I blame the dog.
 

QY10

Well-Known Member
We are taught in class to use wait and stay seperately. I have a hard time with this. Wait is supposed to be the same as stay, meaning they don't move until given another command, but they know another command is comming. Stay is supposed to be stay until I come back to you at heal position and release you. The dog will NEVER (theoretically) move from a stay until you are next to them. This is one of the hardest things for ME to wrap my head around and I use the words interchangeably. How much that matters in the long run remains to be seen.

I use a wait command when I feed the dogs. They have to wait for their 'break' command, which signals them to start eating!

With Rally, I do a stay even when I am not returning to Thalia. She may be expected to return to her heel position though with the next command.

With Thalia, she's a staffy... Not a protector, so I don't expect her to stay with me/guard me etc... If I tell her to stay, she better damn well stay where I left her. So far, she has stayed for 5 minutes while I have left her sight. I would not expect this of my other dogs though..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I might be inconsistent with verbal queues. That's probably something I think Denna was trying to point out to me. I've got a couple clickers on order because I know my wife is really bad with verbal queues. She is very generous with verbal praise, sometimes a little overly generous imo lol. I understand the concept of timing, but all the years of hard, well, never mind. Maybe I'm a little slower verbally than intended lol. We all also know how prematurity problems run in males, especially us young bucks =P
 
I use a wait command when I feed the dogs. They have to wait for their 'break' command, which signals them to start eating!
That's how I do for dinner. Eating in my mind is "free time". They aren't under command = free time./\/\/\/\ Mijita my rat terrier, would not eat unless it was given to her by my hand. Period. I've stopped doing things like that because my wife made a good point. What if something happened to me while riding my motorcycle or something and I was unable to feed her?
 

QY10

Well-Known Member
That's how I do for dinner. Eating in my mind is "free time". They aren't under command = free time./\/\/\/\ Mijita my rat terrier, would not eat unless it was given to her by my hand. Period. I've stopped doing things like that because my wife made a good point. What if something happened to me while riding my motorcycle or something and I was unable to feed her?

I have to say that your dog's 'down' looks exactly like Angus'! LOL I feel like I'm
Negotiating with him sometimes... Luring him down with a treat and bring like, "down. Down. Down? Down. Please? Please, will you lay down? LAY THE EFF DOWN!" Just kidding, it's not that bad. I'm just being dramatic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Down hasn't always been the easiest for either of my dogs, to Follow on the first command. Maybe its me? Denna's got me all self conscious now. Maybe I should have had the clickers overnighted!? jk lol I think maybe it's because it's a submissive position? I don't know. I'm not what I'd call "Dog Pro". I'm just some guy with a little practical working knowledge, that grew up around dogs, that's never been to a formal class, I basically learned "in the field".
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
You don't need a clicker to mark behaviors. You can use verbal markers. The hard part is to remember to mark and being consistent. A clicker just provides a distinct consistent sound every time where verbal will vary in tone.
 

Hector

Well-Known Member
Well CJ-Sharpy did suggest maybe queueing on the way down as opposed to when the down is complete? What's the general consensus on that??
I'm not understanding. From the video, it just looks like she's either not motivated enough to down or something is bothering her so she actually doesn't want to down. Do you have a hand signal for down? How do you get her to lay down in the house? Get down really good in the house and use the kibble as rewards and then try it outside to see if there are any improvements.
 
That's the thing, Yes I do have a hand signal but it requires me not to have food in my hand lol. Also We spend a lot of time indoors and so most the time when I say down it is telling both dogs at the same time and I tap the floor (which makes a distinct noise). Possibly the tapping the floor in her mind is the biggest queue for down? 90% of down commands indoors on a day to day are of me sitting on the floor when I issue the command. Def could be a motivational thing. She might not have been feeling it the day we recorded. I commented to my wife how surprised I was at the trouble we had with down. Basically our dialogue was much what is going on here. The focus on the down or lack thereof lol.
 
We could speculate on all sorts of things. That's part of the reason I thought this thread would be cool. Share each other's daily training and pick it apart and see what the brain trust thinks on how we can improve, as a group. You know the whole camaraderie thing. I'm not into tricks, to me they aren't practical. I was intending this to be a similar thread in that, we make videos of our daily training. Maybe it will inspire some people that don't do daily training to start so they can also post their videos. I'ma do a trick or two for the other thread because it inspired me and I want to feel included lol. But that's why I've been wrestling with what trick could I teach, because it has to have a practical use. lol
 

cj-sharpy

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't worry too much about the down. I taught Max using a finger click to mean pay attention and a finger pointed was sit, two fingers pointed down meant lay down, and flat palm meant wait. Along with verbal commands. In reality the hand signals had no extra benifit other than showing off a bit haha. With jack I'm not that bothered about a lay down. A SIT is good enough for me so DOWN is used more for "get of the furniture, stop jumping". Your choice of words also makes little difference, though Max did understand "fuck off" rather than "go away" haha (not my training). We had to retrain that command as "go on" to mean go for a run, its your free time.