Dog got very aggressive, not sure how to handle?

[seo]

Thank you for the link (and yes, we are close!) I've contacted Catherine at the sensible k9 and she seems to be the one who deals with aggressive behavior in dogs. She mouthed my son again yesterday and I'm pretty much just at my witts end. I'm very torn on what to do, and am praying Catherine has some ideas and will meet with me. I cannot keep a dog who is aggressive with my child and I'm at the point where if I can't see both of them and am 5 feet away, I am worried. That's no way to live. I am heartsick and really hope she doesn't need to be rehomed, but I'm at the point where if Catherine suggests this, I'm going for it. It's been our dream to have a mastiff, and I'm just sick frankly. And yes, to the above poster, I'll disclose EVERYTHING to a rescue if it comes to that. She's a good dog when she's good. There's no reason she can't be happy, either with us or with another family without children and with more mastiff experience if it comes to that. I'd never rehome this dog to someone without telling everything we've experienced with her. But I'm praying it doesn't come to that. I'd be heartsick, but my child comes first. I'll report what I hear back. Thank you all for your help.

---------- Post added at 10:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------

Thank you for the link (and yes, we are close!) I've contacted Catherine at the sensible k9 and she seems to be the one who deals with aggressive behavior in dogs. She mouthed my son again yesterday and I'm pretty much just at my witts end. I'm very torn on what to do, and am praying Catherine has some ideas and will meet with me. I cannot keep a dog who is aggressive with my child and I'm at the point where if I can't see both of them and am 5 feet away, I am worried. That's no way to live. I am heartsick and really hope she doesn't need to be rehomed,  but I'm at the point where if Catherine suggests this, I'm going for it. It's been our dream to have a mastiff, and I'm just sick frankly. And yes, to the above poster, I'll disclose EVERYTHING to a rescue if it comes to that. She's a good dog when she's good. There's no reason she can't be happy, either with us or with another family without children and with more mastiff experience if it comes to that. I'd never rehome this dog to someone without telling everything we've experienced with her. But I'm praying it doesn't come to that. I'd be heartsick, but my child comes first. I'll report what I hear back. Thank you all for your help.

 

[seo]

double post... .sorry

 

[Oak Hill Farm]

Catherine is great, very knowledgeable! She has done a lot of classes at Purdue for the vet school and works well with aggressive dogs. They will do an amazing initial assessment , for a couple of hours if that's needed.

 

[Augustus]

Thank you for all of your information and advice. I am concerned with my Mastiff because this has been going on for a while now. I have been through three trainers, a vet, and now a behavioralist. I even contacted the breeder on multiple occasions to ask for advice. I have three teenage sons, but I still do not want to put them in harms way. OUr dog is great except for when we try to clean his mouth or touch his face when he is laying down. I am not sure what happened to him or why he developed this fear of his face. He will growl before trying to nip to let you know that he doesn't want you close to his face. On the other hand, when you call him near you he is happy to have you touch his face and scratch his ears. I am at a loss and would appreciate any guidance. This is a new breed for me, everything I read and research said they were calm and sweet. I don't see that right now. I see mr. unpredictible. Thank you.

 

[agno3]

You really shouldn't disicpline her for growling. That's her way of warning and dogs that are scolded for growling will stop growling, but the still bite and you have no warning then.

Have you taken her to the vet? Sometimes dogs get weird when they're in pain. It could be an ear infection or a bad back.

 

[seo]

agno3, not sure if you're posting this to Augustus or myself, but in my case, I tell her not to growl because she's growling at me. Should I allow her to growl at me? I understand what you're saying when she's outside or on "her turf" but I still can't have an angry growling dog out there can I? We have a fenced in yard, but I want her to know when she's in that fence, she's safe, and I can't have her growl at me. Not exactly sure what you were responding to, but am I wrong for correcting her when she growls at me (in the house or yard) or at people walking by?

 

[Oak Hill Farm]

What agno3 is saying is you have to find other ways to address the problem. @ Agustus, if you want to look at the teeth start by taking jerky (really hard to chew tear with front teeth) and feeding it it the dog while holding it. when he is trying to chew it off, try to run your fingers along the teeth. If you just go at his face and he doesn't like it you wont get anywhere. And yes if you correct your dog when he growls at you while touching his face he will stop growling and just go strait to snapping.

Imagine taking a nap, or relaxing in your lounger and someone walks up and starts pinching your nose or lifting your lip, poking at you. Your first reaction would be to yell stop (growl). They still do it, you swat/smack them and they stop (snap/bite). Now lets say every time you yelled stop they jerked you out of the chair. You would eventually just start smacking them and may get even more defensive when you see them coming as time goes on.

Basically what you end up with is a more reactive dog in this situation.

 

[ruthcatrin]

DO NOT punish your dog for growling or any in away attempt to make them stop growling, all that does is take away that warning. Growling is a WARNING that the dog is upset, its the only real way they have to tell you that whats happening is "bad" (from their POV) and that they want it to stop. You take away that warning and at some point the dog will bite/attack with NO warning (because they just get more and more upset and can't tell you to make it stop), and in every case I'm familier with those explosions end up really bad.

You need to figure out WHY the dog is growling and stop (or redirect or what have you) THAT. What are you doing when she growls at you? Instead of punishing her or telling her to stop, redirect her attention instead.

Now growling through the fence at passersby is likely either protective or resource guarding. If you're already working with a trainer make sure you mention that too so you can find a productive way to redirect it.

 

[Augustus]

Thank you for the information on growling. I will note that and try to remember not to scold him for growling. I am trying so hard to figure out why he is reacting this way. A couple of behavioralists said that some Mastiffs check out between 6 mos and 2 years. I am wondering if this is what I have on my hands. He is great when walking and he is responsive to commands...he just seems fearful at times and growls. Therefore, I am very cautious about people coming near him.

 

[chuckorlando]

I never thought about it like that. I have'nt really had a growling issue, but I have stopped them from time to time. The way you explained that really puts the growl into perspective.QUOTE=ruthcatrin;22066]DO NOT punish your dog for growling or any in away attempt to make them stop growling, all that does is take away that warning. Growling is a WARNING that the dog is upset, its the only real way they have to tell you that whats happening is "bad" (from their POV) and that they want it to stop. You take away that warning and at some point the dog will bite/attack with NO warning (because they just get more and more upset and can't tell you to make it stop), and in every case I'm familier with those explosions end up really bad.

You need to figure out WHY the dog is growling and stop (or redirect or what have you) THAT. What are you doing when she growls at you? Instead of punishing her or telling her to stop, redirect her attention instead.

Now growling through the fence at passersby is likely either protective or resource guarding. If you're already working with a trainer make sure you mention that too so you can find a productive way to redirect it.[/QUOTE]

 

[ruthcatrin]

Augustus, it can be little things, like, you wore a hat today and don't usually, or if you have long hair and always wear it up, but this time its down. Maybe you're carrying something the dog doesn't like. Maybe you got to close to the dog's bed/food/toy and they have resource guarding issues (note, your dog can resource guard YOU, this is not the same as being protective and needs to be addressed). Maybe you're wearing a weird sweater/jacket thats cut oddly and changing your shape just enough. You normally wear sneakers but this time you're wearing clompy boots (or high heels), or flipflops..... If the dog is reacting to a handling method that you have to do (like handling feet or checking teeth) talk with your vet or trainer about different approaches or ways to desensitize the "bad" area. Consider using treats as you approach a "bad" situation, go slow, and make it a happy thing that results in yummy treats instead of an "OMG its that EVIL THING AGAIN" situation.

Chuck, I think its a mistake most dog owners make at some point, afterall the general opinion is that growling = aggression, so of course you have to stop the aggression...right? The thing is with an otherwise healthy generally non-aggressive dog that growl should tell you something. Think of it this way: you're on a dark street, at night, and the dog growls. The growl is an annoucement that they don't like what they see. You can't see it, but you're probly going to take them at their "word". So, take them at their word the rest of the time too. Course the difference is that on that dark street you're probly going to turn around and walk the other way, the rest of the time that may not be an option because the "problem" is an every day item they're going to have to learn to live with (or a person that they can't do anything about). So you have to work with the dog to figure out what the problem is and make it not "scary" or whatever the problem is.

 

[chuckorlando]

So it would be better to give them an "it's ok girl" than tell them to stop. Try to make them feel comfortable

 

[ruthcatrin]

"ok"could be taken as "ok to growl" which isn't nessecarily what you want either. but yes, you wantto reassure her that its ok.

If you're out somewhere and she reacts to something, ask for a sit (or look at me) and praise/reward THaT. Consider backing up and coming towards the problem again, maybe from a different angle. It might take several tries, (or days!) to get her comfortable with the problem thing.

If you're home or someplace safe and familier put serious effort into IDing the problem, put down stuff in your hands, take off hats, move away from the food bowl, and redirect her like before. If the problem is a piece of clothing, or something elsesafe for her to nose at then let her do so.

If you can't ID the problem, or it appears to be resource guarding, or she Won't let herself be redirected by basic commands and treats, or she'll redirect but won't get over it no matter how slowly you take it, consider additional help working through the issue.

Sometimes the problem has to do with a "type" of person, or an action a person makes, usually do to a bad experience the dog had. These often require additional help getting over, and some never do. My inlaws chow simply isn't tolerant of strange males of a particular type. She's a rescue so they've no idea what caused it. Training only got them so far (she'll back off instead of try to attack, but still growls). My inlaws manage by not inviting large numbers of people into the home and introducing her to ALL new men outside where everyone has room to back away, and she can see that they aren't a threat.

 

[chuckorlando]

Well out side of playing I think Konas only growled twice. Both times at a stranger or just someone she was'nt use to. Both times it was gone very quick. But I tend to treat her they way your inlaws do, except with everyone. Me and the wife were just discussing more training. We will deffinatly look into this.

Thanks

 

[Marrowshard]

I have to remind my husband at times not to punish Oscar when he goofs up or if he growls. He growled once at me when I tried to forcibly uproot him from the couch (we were starting to work on "Down" and having to get the concept through his head). It was out of character for him, so I had to stop and think what I might have done. Turns out he was uncomfortable being grabbed under the armpits. We switched to a chest-to-rump encircling grab and no more growl.
Ruthcatrin nailed it down pretty well: don't punish for growling, figure out what the problem is and work around it. Saying "ok" or even providing nonverbal comfort (petting, treats) is positive reinforcement of the growl and/or the behavior that's leading to it. It's the same reason you wouldn't comfort a dog that's frightened of loud noises. If YOU react to it, it becomes okay for the dog to react as well.
Mouth handling should be workable: I suggest feeding treats from both cupped hands. The treat is down deep, the dog HAS to put its muzzle in contact with your hands to be rewarded. Slowly work up to gentle strokes on the muzzle and go from there. The idea is to associate treats with being touched on the face. "If I put my nose in her hands, I get a tasty". Don't punish for NOT taking the treat, just make the cup shallower. We had to move very slowly with Oscar to get him to allow us to mess with his feet. We had to clip one nail per day and give treats and praise afterward, but eventually he figured out we weren't out to amputate and now lets us clip all we want.
You can do it, it'll just take time and consistency

~Marrow

 

[ruthcatrin]

Chuck, the meet/greet outside isn't a bad idea all around, especially when you consider that most of the mastiff breeds were ment originally as guard dogs. The line might not have been used for it in ages but some of the instincts still remain.


What Marrow said!

 

[chuckorlando]

I picked up a book today. They only had 2 books on the shelf. Training for dumbies which I did not get. The one I got is written by Peggy Swager. It's called "Training the Hard To Train Dog" Seems very imformative thus far. Lotta things you would never even consider.

 

[agno3]

Consider using treats as you approach a "bad" situation, go slow, and make it a happy thing that results in yummy treats instead of an "OMG its that EVIL THING AGAIN" situation.

Here's a really cool example of that: [video=youtube;sI13v9JgJu0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI13v9JgJu0[/video]

 

[shermantank]

I agree that it is probably stress. I am new to the Mastiffs, and only have a mix myself....but I have had German Shepherds for quite awhile and worked as a foster (which is how we gained our Mastiff x). Anyhow we have always had a 2 week shutdown upon introducing a new dog, especially one past about 4 months of age. During that time we do a lot of crate or tethered time in the house, giving them time to observe routines, etc. We also do not allow any visitors or stranger petting during that 2 week time. Essentially just give the dog time to adjust to us and our house before adding anything to the mix. Changing households can be very stressful on a dog and they will act out of character during that time. Hope that helps, I certainly wouldn't be worried just yet, I would just take it slow and easy.



I had only seen a few responses to this and after posting, realized there were many more, so what I said may have been covered already. Sorry, I have a lot to learn I haven't been on much.

 

[Kiloteague]

Im going to bring in a different point of view to this subject for two reasons. The first reason is I totally disagree with what I am hearing, and secondly because it seems like the situation has gotten worse.

Just a little background on myself so you know what I'm about. I had A male Rott and two Male Pits that all ate out of the same bowl at the same time. I raised my dogs like my dad raised me. If they didnt do what I said when I said it, they got popped. They learned very quickly. When it comes to dogs, I dont play. I feel an animal, especially one like this has to be under total control at all times. There is no good reason for a dog to growl at its master. That to me shows the dog does not have the proper respect for you. Now I was able to get all three of my dogs when they were six weeks old and I was able to make an impression on them at a very young age. The first thing I do with all my dogs is make sure they listen to me what I say when I say it. Its a very simple method.
1st I get a bowl of hamburger meat, and put it down. Obviously they run to it and start eating it.
2nd I push them away saying no! They run back to it and start ferociously eating
3rd I give them a hard slap on the butt that sends them tubbling four or five times simultaneously saying no. They squeel and get up gingerly. They start to slowly walk towards the food unsure.
4th I say no, and they back away from the food. I pet them and say good boy. Then I push the food to them so they can eat.
5th I say no, and they stop eating and back away from the food.
Now this is what I do with every pup right away and what Ive done is controlled them from there strongest desire which is great human food. Which also means they will now listen to anything I say and when I say it.

Now If I was in your position, I would go get an electric colar, (A strong one) I would put that collar on the highest voltage.
I would put food down and let him eat. I would tell him No. If he didnt back away from the food, that tells me that you donot have the proper repect from your dog and subsequently you will not have the proper control over your dog that you should. So then the second time you say "NO" and simultaneoulsy hit the zap button. He will probably jump up and look around like "what the heck". Call him to you, if he goes back down to eat again, say "NO" and simultaneously hit the zap button again. This should be all it takes. He should want nothing to do with the food. Then call him and he should also come to you. Now donot over do it with the button, because the dog may get really freaked out and go hide undersomething. Most likley he will all of a sudden be a great dog who only wants to do what you say. Now if the dog ever bites or growls at you or your kids, say "NO" and hit the zapper. You should only have to do this once or twice at most and the dog should fall in line. Id keep the shock collar on for a month though just to make sure.

The thing is dogs need almost as much tuff love as they need love. When I was in fith grade we had a Rottweiler as our first dog and I was like that dogs younger brother. She loved me, but she used to beat the crap out of me, and punk me all the time. The dangerous thing about this is that the dog will prob love you even though it acts aggressive towards you, and it will probably only nip you or quick bite you to say "shut up" to you. But it will maul someone else like a neighbor or there dog, if it gets mad because he knows hes the boss.

We ended up giving our Rott back to my uncle because whe tried to mess up this girl across the street. Thats when I knew total control was a necessity. Our Rott loved us like a big brother likes his younger brother. But that means when big brother gets mad at you he checks you. And when he gets mad at a neighbor he destroys them. The dog needs to love you like a respectful child. When he gets mad at you he wines but obeys. When he gets mad at the neigbor he obeys and does nothing either out of fear of a spanking.

I was 22 when I got my Rott, and 24 when I got my pits, and did eveything on command, never thought about growling at me. And loved me and I loved them.

If the electricity doesnt work, I would give the dog back. Its not safe for you or your kids seriously. Its not your fault at all. I personally like to get dogs at 6-12 weeks so I can make an impression at an early age. Your dog is 80lbs already and its already had some obvious bad impressions. Regardless show the dog as much love as humanly possible, and then show him that much discipline. Do it soon and find out if you can keep this dog.