Opinion on the purity of this puppy

[Bailey's Mom]

Late to the discussion, BUT: Back in the 80's when we first (ex and me) considered getting a Bull Mastiff, we went to a breeder in Tillsonburg, Ontario. He had a dog, I think his name was, Augustus Caesar. His female that he was breeding, I can't remember her name, but they definitely had puppies. We met both parents, we spent several hours discussing our desire for a Bull and we were, for all intents and purposes, cross-examined on our motives, desires, attitudes, abilities, finances, time available, room for a mastiff, fenced in yards, etc., etc.,

And, and here is the kicker, and my salvation at the time...major league reality check...we were told that the cost, in the 80's was around $1,200 CDN and in addition...oh yes...no dog would be allowed to go to any home without another $1,500 CDN for training...HUMAN TRAINING! None of their pups were going to people who didn't have the commitment to train to be good owners. And it wasn't easy training. We'd have to commit to twice a week (I think it was) of human training to be good dog owners. We'd never heard of such a thing.

As it was, the rules and regs of this breeder stopped us from acting too quickly, and shortly afterwards, the marriage dissolved and a pup was saved from our tragedy.

So, what is the moral to my story: Mastiffs need solid owners with good training and solid respect for their needs and training. And Mastiffs cost money, not just for a pup, but for the skills and ability to handle and train that pup. There is no cheap pup from a "great breeder", there are solid pups with great lineages, and great medical testing and the end result (if the breeder thinks you are worthy and capable or can be trained to be capable) is a delightful dog that will fill your life with joy. It will always be a gamble, but with a great breeder, you will be covered for various possibilities, and, you will be advised to have great dog insurance, just in case.

Just My Humble Opinion, after all these intervening years, I thank that Breeder for being disciplined and responsible enough to discourage a youthful, stupid, vain person like me who really didn't know what they were getting into, but was willing to train the "stupid" out of me. And, that experience has influenced all my choices since then.

My present dog, a CC, came from a BYB who just wanted to give his girl the experience of a litter. The Dam had 15 pups, 13 survived. But, no one wanted our pup...she was the last one, the runt, and after several discussions the man called me and gave her to me because I seemed like the most responsible and conscientious of the people he had met. Poor thing, she needed a good home, and it was my home. She is the best dog in the world to me. Healthy, happy, settled, kind, non-reactive, sweet with children, loving to her family. IN THE WORLD OF DOG, I WON THE LOTTERY. Attention: Most People Don't.

A good breeder, in my estimation, is suspicious and cautious when allowing someone to purchase their pups. They are not in it for the money...and most of the money is absorbed by testing and shots and health care before the prospective owner shows up to see the pups. Look at the intent...money or betterment of the breed and ongoing protection for the offspring. Expect contracts, and limitations for the breeding and transferring ownership. Expect this, and take these considerations as a good sign that you are talking to a responsible breeder.

I know that if Bailey had ever had a litter, I would have put prospective owners through the mill...they would have been my grand-puppies and I would have put prospective owners through a marathon to prove themselves...money would be secondary. But then again, I still would have been a BYB. Not many BYB's would be as careful or as dedicated to the breed as I would have been. Look before you leap...please!

 

[marke]

i'd doubt they're not purebred bullmastiffs ............ the term backyard breeder always irks me , i'm sure i'd fit most folks criteria for the term ............. i'd prefer to separate dog breeders as puppymills and responsible hobbyist with a purpose other than a source of income .... ......... professional breeders/puppymills that health test as a marketing tool imo are more harmful to dogs than your next door neighbor breeding his dog because they just want to raise a litter or whatever other silly reason they may have ....... the more you can get folks to pay for your pup the more it'll be valued by most folks , which is a good thing for the pup , as long as the dog doesn't disappoint , that doesn't end well for the dog in most cases ............... the folks your talking about here look to have had at least 7 litters since 2014 , if that count is correct they're obviously breeding their dogs for money , as conformationally the dogs aren't that good , and I don't see any indications they work them ........ no hobbyist needs 7 litters in 3 yrs , it takes two three years to get a somewhat decent evaluation of a pup , if you kept 2 pups out of every litter , you'd be overrun with dogs in no time , if your that poor at picking dogs to breed that you need dozens of pups to pick from you should find another hobby ........until we start eating them here in the us , breeding dogs should not be an occupation ....... my belief is you breed the best you got to the best you can find , and it's not to often the same guy has both ...................... understanding the pedigrees is a big help , the only way to understand the pedigree is to know the dogs in it , genetics in dog breeding is pretty simple , like begets like is honestly about as complicated as it needs to be .......

 

[belawyer]

So I’m curious now, what was everyone’s overall conclusion on these pups and breeder?

Did everyone come to the conclusion these pups should be avoided? Or was the conclusion that the breeder was responsible and pups healthy looking pups; however, slightly overpriced for what you get and not exactly show quality? Because if it is the latter, I may consider these as I’m not trying to have a show dog. I just want a good family bullmastiff.

 

[marke]

i'd say they're obviously breeding their dogs as a source of income ...... your looking for a pet , i'd say give the pup a home , they all need good homes ...... if you can swing 1200 , that'll be the least of the expense of owning a dog ...... if you are a good home , myself i'd just about give you a pup anyway , but i'd bet they're not concerned about their pups as they are the money they get for them .......... i got pick male off int. ch. hanover simon rom , and int. ch. melkev's pretty hot stuff for $1200 ............

 

[Boxergirl]

Of course by giving them money you're assuring that they know there's a market for producing more pups. Again, I'd want to know exactly how many litters the bitch has had and starting at what age. Then I'd decide if I want to give my money to them. Of course all pups need a home, but so do all the pups in pet stores from mills and I refuse to give them my money because it just proves there's a market. Not saying this is a mill. I don't think it is. Just make sure you agree with their breeding ethics. I have to be morally okay with where my money is going. I, personally, would need more information before I decided about this breeder.

 

[7121548]

Of course by giving them money you're assuring that they know there's a market for producing more pups. Again, I'd want to know exactly how many litters the bitch has had and starting at what age. Then I'd decide if I want to give my money to them. Of course all pups need a home, but so do all the pups in pet stores from mills and I refuse to give them my money because it just proves there's a market. Not saying this is a mill. I don't think it is. Just make sure you agree with their breeding ethics. I have to be morally okay with where my money is going. I, personally, would need more information before I decided about this breeder.

100%.