Piebald Mastiffs

[ruby55]

I found this blog, written by Jemima Harrison. I thought it was pretty interesting reading. I don't know much about EM standards, either in the US, England, or any other country. But I like to see photos/portraits of dogs in days gone by, & how the different breeds have evolved. The article on EM's is down past the pic of the bulldog.

Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog

 

[LLJohnson10]

Great read, some of the same points were reiterated in the Gammonwood video, which is the best Mastiff breed history video ever produced IMO.

 

[Rugers-Kris]

I really enjoyed the article, thanks for sharing. I have always wanted a piebald Mastiff since the first one I saw.

 

[TWW]

Very nice read.

 

[musicdeb]

I saw a piebald mastiff on a mastiff forum on facebook, I was kinda shocked it was a mastiff at all. Great looking pup though.

 

[DennasMom]

I love the look of the piebald mastiffs.
I vote to reinstate them to the standard!!

 

[DMikeM]

I saw that painting before and the blogger said it was an original Dane mastiff. Regardless of that here is an accepted Pie Bald Mastiff.

Of course they are Boerboels but it is a Mastiff with accepted color pattern Piebald or Irish Marked.

 

[DDSK]

Those are awesome looking dogs.

 

[DMikeM]

Oh just one more to really get you guys worked up.

Teaser for the cuteness over load!

 

[cinnamon roll]

I love that pattern. I would purchase one for sure.

 

[DDSK]

I love that pattern. I would purchase one for sure.

There you go finally a solution to your "What type of mastiff should I get" issue.

 

[cinnamon roll]

LOL. The hunt is on

There you go finally a solution to your "What type of mastiff should I get" issue.

 

[DMikeM]

These pups are recent maybe she is selling some of the Pies. https://www.facebook.com/claudia.maurits

 

[WalnutCrest]

Each breed is to be bred to exude "breed type".

To me, these dogs, while impressive in some regards and on their own merits, do not exude MASTIFF breed type. When the casual observer sees your new dog asks themselves, "I wonder when they got a Saint Bernard?", then your dog does not exude MASTIFF breed type.

I'm quite concerned with BYB-types focusing on "unique" or "rare" color patterns. If left unchecked, "rare piebald mastiffs" will be sold by BYB's (with no testing) for $10,000 ... while the litter of pups out of championed and health-tested parents sold by the seasoned breeder on the other side of town will go for $2,500 ...

...which will then lead to other breeders lying about their pedigrees and simply crossing a saint with a Mastiff to get a load of piebald running around that they can slap a huge price tag on...

Why do I think this? I saw it first hand when looking for a miniature dachshund puppy for my daughter seven years ago ... dozens of breeders were chasing the "rare isabella piebald" color pattern ... and any breeder lucky enough to put this pup on the ground would get $2000+ for it while the rest of the pups in the litter would sell for $300-500. How many miniature dachshunds were bred by unscrupulous breeders in an attempt to win the equivalent of the "puppy lottery"? Dozens? Hundreds Thousands? I don't know ... but it was too many.

I'd hate to see the same thing happen in my beloved breed.

So, how exactly does pursuing / promoting piebald mastiffs benefit the breed?

Aren't all breeding decisions to be made to first benefit the breed?

Besides, rescue will be totally overwhelmed with the dogs bred by breeders who want to capitalize on "rare piebald mastiffs".

Are they cute? Yes...because all puppies are cute.

Are they worth being loved? Yes...because all dogs are worth being loved.

Are they worth being bred and perpetuated in the gene pool? I doubt it. Until shown otherwise, I believe the risks outweigh the perceived "genetic diversity" benefits (as I consider those claims to be somewhat (or more than somewhat) dubious).

 

[Rugers-Kris]

I just think that they shouldn't be excluded. If there was genetic reason or a real belief of mixed breeding of some sort, that would make sense but just because of color doesn't to me. The reality is that most people can't figure out what kind of dog I have anyway (He is fawn, black mask, built like a mastiff and is over 200 pounds) and the closest they get is the bull mastiff and don't know that there is a difference between bull or English anyway BUT I think anyone that is familair with Mastiff's would certainly be able to pick these pups out of a crowd as Mastiff's and be able to identify which Mastiff they are. I understand what you are saying and it is sad that we live in a world in which people would indeed attempt to make a quick buck off of the "newness" of the piebald but there are plenty already out there doing that without having the piebald to work with. I think by not allowing these dogs to become show dogs and breeeding dogs, it is quite possible that people are missing out on something that may very well improve the Mastiff. In the event that a piebald is born and doesn't have the qualities of a pup that you would consider show/breed worthy then they would be sold on a pet contract same as is done with the puppies now.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Lots of "maybes" and "ifs" in that paragraph you just typed.

I'd rather see half the Mastiffs in rescue and fewer litters bred than the alternative.

A large increase in unwanted pups isn't worth the theoretical upside (?) of whatever is in the DNA of piebald mastiffs that isn't already in the broader non-piebald Mastiff population.

It's my working theory that there is almost nothing (outside of introducing color-based genetics on a wide basis) that piebald mastiffs have that Mastiffs proper don't already have.

 

[LLJohnson10]

I just think that they shouldn't be excluded. If there was genetic reason or a real belief of mixed breeding of some sort, that would make sense but just because of color doesn't to me.

I 2nd that opinion. From my understanding, the piebald has always appeared throughout the history of the EM. They should not be suppressed or deemed undesirable just because of someone's, or some group's preference. If their lineage says they are EM's then that is what they are. In my opinion, if you are going to disregard the Piebalds, then you must also disregard the dogs that led to them being produced. That means, their parents, grandparents, great grand parents, etc. There is no reason they shouldn't be registered, recognized, or bred from because of their color if they otherwise display appropriate type. There doesn't appear to be a legitimate reason that they were written out of the Breed Standard.

 

[joshuagough]

You are aware there are registered AKC pie's?

Lots of "maybes" and "ifs" in that paragraph you just typed.

I'd rather see half the Mastiffs in rescue and fewer litters bred than the alternative.

A large increase in unwanted pups isn't worth the theoretical upside (?) of whatever is in the DNA of piebald mastiffs that isn't already in the broader non-piebald Mastiff population.

It's my working theory that there is almost nothing (outside of introducing color-based genetics on a wide basis) that piebald mastiffs have that Mastiffs proper don't already have.

 

[WalnutCrest]

You are aware there are registered AKC pie's?

I believe they were required to be re-registered as fawn or apricot, solid or brindle. Very sad they were required to be mislabeled. Even more sad that people will seek to breed these dogs in pursuit of "that lovely piebald coat".

Afterall, nothing says MASTIFF quite like a pretty tri-party coat.

 

[Rugers-Kris]

MAYBE there would be a large increase in unwanted pups, MAYBE not. Explain to me exactly what you have done to form your working theory in terms of working with piebalds. Also, what is "almost nothing"? No more if's and maybe's in my comment than yours, I just typed the words out and you presented your opinion as fact instead. Obviously at some point a pretty tri-party coat did, indeed say MASTIFF........Until a group of people decided that they didn't like it and wrote it out.