Possible food allergies ... also, I hate BYBs

[Marrowshard]

I get the feeling that sooner or later people here are going to get tired of hearing from me

Ebony's been doing pretty well lately aside from her ears. They were atrociously dirty when we adopted her but didn't seem to have mites. A vet visit confirmed this: no mites, just lots and lots of gunk to be cleaned out. We were given (or rather, sold) some ear-cleaning solution and told to use as directed.

Fast forward a few weeks, and her ears were horribly inflamed. We hadn't been rough with her while cleaning, no jamming q-tips down her ear canal or anything, and plenty of massaging to loosen the debris. She still let us clean them, but it was obviously causing her pain and she shook her head and rubbed her face on the floor/carpet/dirt/wall so much it banged up her left eye. Not to mention, all the thrashing around in her kennel every night was keeping the whole house up. It got so I was spending nights on the couch with her, rubbing her ears until she fell asleep, then dozing off myself until she woke herself up again.

We took her in again and the vet confirmed both a yeast infection and a cocci infection (similar to staph). She's on a strict regimen of pills and ointment and I must say it's gotten a lot better. We're able to clean regularly with no obvious irritation, and she slept a full night last night (so did I!).

Here's the stitch:
The vet said two things of interest. One was that it was clear (to her) that Eb had had ear problems for some time now. There was a noticeable thickening of the ear tissue on her left side which was scar tissue from an old hematoma that was never treated. So not only did some careless person breed her to exhaustion and abandon her, they also let her ears stay infected and clogged up so long it gave her permanent scar tissue.

Secondly, the vet suggested that since her mucous membranes in other places were looking irritated, she may have a food allergy that's possibly contributing to recurrect infections. She said we should consider doing a feed trial which, from my understanding, involves switching to a strict raw diet of only 2 or 3 items for 6-8 weeks to try and rule out allergens (as opposed to a clinical allergen test, which would be comparatively expensive). She suggested an easy combo like venison/potato or chicken/rice; no other treats, "people" food, not even oral medications (so we'd have to start it after the infection is licked).

My husband is primarily concerned about the cost. I've read a few threads here that talk about raw feeding, and I've done other research at breeder sites. It doesn't look too terrible, more time-consuming than anything with trying to find cheap ofal from butchers, discout-shopping for chicken parts, etc. and of course packaging and freezing servings. I've also read that the benefits far outweigh the hassle after the initial adjustment period (which, frankly, sounds hellish). I'm pretty sure Eb's been on kibble all her life.

My question, then (after all that mess above) is that I'd like to hear people's personal thoughts/experiences with both raw diet in general and with food allergies. I'm inclined to listen to my vet. She's never tried to upsell us or pushed a particular brand of food, and she left the food trial strictly as an option, rather than a requirement.

I want to do what's best for Ebony, but we're not going to be able to afford an arm and a leg on a specialized diet. My husband hunts, but that won't provide us with organs until the season re-opens this fall. We also have a vegetable garden, but again that won't yield any useful carbs until this fall.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

~Marrow

 

[STEVSH]

I had a golden retriever that we found out (after 13 years of her life) that she had severe allergies to her food. She was on and off ear medication since she was a puppy, she would chew her paws until they were red, bald, and bloody, and she was starting to lose some fur and get weird flakey, raw spots on her skin. She was on Science Diet, as I had no idea it was a bad dog food and was still in the frame of mind that what the vet tells you is the best possible way. WRONG! After someone notifying me about the effects of a Science Diet diet, I began looking into other food.
I know nothing about raw diet, but I found a bag of food called California Natural that soemone told me to try. Within ONE WEEK, her ears were all cleared up, she stopped chewing on her paws, and her fur was shiny and started filling in where the bald spots were from her scratching it raw. Unfortunately, we learned to late and I still feel guilty about her every single day. She died six months later from nasal cancer at almost 14 yrs of age.
My sister's boxer is also allergic to everything, and they have her on a lamb and rice diet dog food that she thrives on too.

Best of luck to you!

 

[Ripsmom]

in most cases when dogs are allergic to something in their food it is either wheat or corn... rather than a raw diet (which is fantastic if done correctly) you could also try a grain free dry food...although i don't know if it'll be cheaper since they can be costly especially for a big dog. The other thing with the yeast is that very often there is an overgrowth of the yeast due to an imbalance in the intestinal flora which foods high in grains will make worse since yeast thrives on sugar (ie.carbs). so she may not be allergic but the grains in the food are making her condition worse. while some dogs can eat pedigree with out a problem (which has a fair amount of corn in it, just like science diet) other dogs who are predisposed to yeast will have an issue with the grain making the yeast worse. In my opinion the whole thing with the food allergies is overstated but that's just my feeling..that's not to say that there aren't some dogs that do have it but i don't think it's as many as we like to think. does she have any other spots on her body, itchy or scaly spots? also, the oral antibiotics are needed right now to clear the bacterial stuff up but sometimes vets will keep them on them for far too long which actually makes thing worse as far as the yeast in concerned because antibiotics kill the gut's good bacteria which in turn perpetuates the growth of more yeast. If you wanted to try something a little simpler before going the raw diet or allergy testing you could try feeding her a good dry food (something without corn or wheat) and with a protein source (ie. chicken or chicken meal; turkey or turkey meal etc) as the first ingredient but if you can do the raw that is better and put her on a high quality probiotic like acidophilus or sometimes you can buy them with multiple species which is better; you can find a good one at a health food store or whole foods, they usually need to be refrigerated and you can give her an adult dose. if she does have any other spots on her you can bath her with miconozole medicated shampoo or even selsun blue as they both have antifungal ingredients. it's important to keep her clean and bathed frequently (every one to two weeks) while she is clearing up so the yeast doesn't have a "suitable" environment for living. and as far as her ears, i am assuming that the meds the vet gave you is both antibacterial for the staph and antifungal for the yeast...very important to finish the meds even if you think they look better after a few days...then once it's cleared up you should use either an ear cleaner with some type of antifungal ingredient like salicylic acid or you can even use white vinegar and water 1 to 1 ratio two or three times a week for her lifetime, no need to go digging into her ear (this will irritate them) just put the cleaner or vinegar in and rub it around; this will acidify the ear canal making it very difficult for yeast to grow. very important...do not use the vinegar solution while the dog's ears are healing as it'll just make them more inflamed.the bacterial infection is probably secondary to the yeast so if you can keep her ears in check after they're healed up you should not have issues with any bacteria. It sounds like the ear ointment is working but if you find that it doesn't there is a solution you can make using boric acid (antifungal), gentian violet drops (antibacterial) and witch hazel which some of the people with mastiff rescue swear by...you'd have to buy the boric acid online as most drugstores don't sell it anymore and the gentian violet but they are both cheap. if you google boric acid ear solution for dogs you will find the recipe for this solution. hope this helps and good luck with her.

 

[dgrazen]

when we brought home Rogue as a pup, he was on a raw diet, so when he came home on his raw diet, we also switched our pug--who had been suffering from 'allergies', and yeasty ears her whole life.-along with her new diet, and a supplement called Yeast & Fungal D'Tox made by Holistic Animal Care--she was a completely new dog after approx. 6 weeks!! we were told that the d'tox would take a few months because of her current immune-suppressed state, and her condition seemed to get worse before it got better--but we held strong and she came out of it in so much better health!! that was three years ago--and we will never go back to feeding any of our dogs kibble!!! the raw diet is not that difficult--just need to do some research in the beginning. think about it . . .do we, eat our foods dried and in a bag that have been sitting on the shelf pumped with all kinds of additives? the less processed, for us, and our beloved pets--the better!!

 

[Marrowshard]

Ripsmom: Ebony doesn't have any skin irritation that I can see, other than the mild mucous membrane inflammation the vet noticed. We generally bathe her about once a month with a moisturizing shampoo. We've never had any issue with her getting sores or scabby/scaly spots and her coat is neither oily nor dry (lucked out!), so if it IS allergies it can't be too severe. Mostly I want to reduce or eliminate the recurring ear infections that have already produced so much scarring in her ears. Our vet gave us some mildly acidic ear wash solution that we've been using when we notice clumpy buildup. We usually squirt it in and spend some time smooshing it around. We let her shake her head a few times, then wipe the excess liquid/gunk off the earflap with a cottonball. The vet also gave us two different pills (antifungal and antibacterial) and some oily anti-inflammatory drops to put in her ears afterward.

So far she's been doing a LOT better, but obviously we don't want to have to keep giving her medication every few months when she gets another infection. I gave my husband the 10-minute synopsis on what I'd learned about raw diet, he's very strongly against paying top dollar for a premium kibble. Like I said, he hunts. He laughed last night when I suggested saving organs from the season, but it would probably help defray the cost a lot if we could furnish a lot of the meat ourselves.

I'm going to keep working on him to at least give the Raw thing a try.

Thanks very much for the information you guys, and if anyone's got more suggestions, keep them coming!

~Marrow

 

[Little Monster]

Food allergies aren't as common as some people think, as previously mentioned. There is a big difference between food allergies (eating something that causes itching) and food sensitivities (eating something that cause vomiting and diarrhea). A lot of people think their dog has food allergies if they get diarrhea from eating chicken (for example). Ripsmom is right, it typically is wheat or corn as well as other proteins. Yes, proteins. Foods like SD, Purina, Iams, etc use corn, wheat, soy etc. as a protein source. A protein a large molecule that is quickly recognized by the body's immune system which why they are most likely to cause a reaction (allergic). A dog can't be allergic to something he has never had before. Allergies are allergies because the body knows them. If your dog is allergic to chicken (which is a possibility) then feeding raw chicken will only work for a short time. The body will recognize the changed chicken protein (it has been extruded like in dog food) eventually and you will be at square 1. I highly recommend, like Ripsmom said using a grain free food that uses a protein source your Ebony has never eaten before (Rabbit, Fish, Venison) not the typical protein sources (Chicken, beef and yes, lamb). When doing a feeding trial or elimination diet, you should feed only a few ingredients without exception for 12 weeks. This mean no table food or treats other than that of the 3 ingredients. You have to talk with your neighbors and be sure they aren't throwing food over the fence!! The start adding things in, things you think she may be allergic to. This way, you can know what it is and avoid it. Add 1 ingredient in at a time. Most dogs are allergic to 1 food, some 2, and very, very, VERY rarely 3.

I currently feed home prepared foods and never will go back to dog kibble again either, like dgrazen! Raw intimidates me and I don't personally like it, but I don't like football either and that doesn't mean it's bad. I spend a lot of time cooking, balancing and measuring to make sure my dogs are getting all they need from their food. I definitely recommend having someone with experience coach you through this, I think preparing food is very tough and time consuming but worth it! The biggest thing to consider when balancing is calcium/phosphorous and how much of the fat soluble you are adding in (A, D, E, K) since too much is toxic. If you are not feeding the appropriate bone to meat ratio you need to. I just avoid bones and supplement in bone meal so I know exactly what is going in.

I don't recommend doing the allergy test unless your vet thinks Ebony has a inhalant or contact allergy. Serum allergy testing is not very accurate and it is the only test currently that does food allergies. I think it is a waste of time and money that could be spent working on an elimination diet. Also, consider asking your vet to do a culture of her ears. A culture is very different from a cytology. A cytology just tells you if it is rod bacteria, cocci bacteria or yeast, not specifically what species is growing in there. She could just have a nasty bug like MRSA (methicillin resistant Staphylococcus Areus) I have seen that first hand!! It wasn't allergies, it was a resistant bacteria that ordinary medications would not and could not clear! Cultures can be expensive, but if this is the case, then no food in the world is gonna cure it. The ears are a PERFECT place for bacteria and yeast to grow. Be sure to let us know how things go!!

 

[ElJayBee]

i've dealt with food allergies for quite some time with my dogs. i found that the easiest thing to do is just switch to a grain-free kibble that has a novel protein source like fish, venison, kangaroo. i personally use Taste of the Wild - Pacific Stream formula, which is fish-based and grain-free. my dogs, including one whose severely allergic to everything, do very well on it. plus it's not very expensive, it's easy to find, and you don't have to feed much of it to maintain a healthy weight. for instance, my boerboel only eats 3 cups a day of it. so it lasts a pretty good while.

 

[mia]

My old MinPin was allergic to corn/wheat, my other MinPin has seasonal allergies! You don't have to go raw there are some great simple foods that may accommodate. With rescues I use California natural as they are very simple and corn/wheat free single protein source food. If you are going to do a food test I suggest a good three months on one food, and with treats be careful. Keep a diary, unless you see a severe reaction keep with the food for months, not a week. You will have loose poops for a week or two during the change. Some people say change gradually I don't bother.

 

[Marrowshard]

It's been a little over a week since Eb was diagnosed with her ear infection, and she's doing a lot better! The gunk in her ears used to be overwhelming, and black in color. Now, it's a few bits here and there and they're that "normal" brown color. She's almost done with all her meds, so we'll have to make a food decision soon. I'd swear she had a fever for a couple of days. I lacked the *ahem* official way to find out, but she was panting almost non-stop and it's not THAT hot up here yet. It got to where we put a fan in front of her kennel and I'd get up at intervals during the night to let her out to pee then let her tank up on water again. She seems to have kicked that, more or less, although now she's got sort of an odd spasm that's popping up. She doesn't appear to be in pain, and isn't panting or rolling a lot or exhibiting other "discomfort" signs I'm familiar with, she'll just be lying there and you can see her suddenly tense, then it goes away ... then it goes again. It kind of happens at intervals, about once every 4 seconds, then after a few minutes it'll stop on its own. Not sure if it's related, anyone else seen this?

~Marrow

 

[TxHorseMom]

I agree with the grain free diet first. I like to use the Diamond Naturals. Also, for cleaning out yeasty ears, try using a 3/1 mixture of water and apple cider vinegar. We had an American Bulldog that we rescued that had AWFUL ear problems. We used this and her ears improved immensely. We went from daily ear cleanings to once a week ear cleaning. I like to use warm the mixture, its less painful for them.